MIRACLEMAN Eclipse Archive Editions, are they worth getting?

[Mr 9.8]

Hi! I'm new here, but I have a question. I collect all things MIRACLEMAN / MARVELMAN and wanted to know if the Eclipse Archive Editions of MIRACLEMAN sold by New Dimension comics are worth getting, are they any better for a future investment then the normel issue's? What is there average condition? ( worth grading?) and what is the big deal about them besides the multiple color MM head stamp? Thanks for any answers.

[mschmidt]

The Eclipse Archive editions of Miracleman are manufactured collectibles in the truest sense of the word - New Dimension basically bought up the Eclipse overstock, had a couple of different colored foil stamps made, and decided that by marking these otherwise normal books with these foil stamps, they were now suddenly part of a "limited edition". They really have nothing to do with Eclipse - it was all just a marketing ploy from ND's side.

 

Which isn't to say that I don't find them kinda cool - as a Miracleman completist, I wouldn't mind having a full set of the archive editions one day.

 

But ... there's no way I'd ever pay the price that New Dimension is asking - when they show up on ebay, they usually sell for less than half of the ND price, and I wouldn't really consider them good investment objects.

 

Also ... most of the archive editions I've seen (and owned) are not particularly high-grade - I've seen some #17's that were 9.6's, but that's the exception rather than the rule; in general you should expect the average condition to be around VF/NM and definitely not worth slabbing. The #23 platinum is the worst of the bunch - I've yet to see a copy where the silver foil hasn't rubbed off on the cover, dropping to grade to no more than a VF.

[Mr 9.8]

The Eclipse Archive editions of Miracleman are manufactured collectibles in the truest sense of the word - New Dimension basically bought up the Eclipse overstock, had a couple of different colored foil stamps made, and decided that by marking these otherwise normal books with these foil stamps, they were now suddenly part of a "limited edition". They really have nothing to do with Eclipse - it was all just a marketing ploy from ND's side.

 

Which isn't to say that I don't find them kinda cool - as a Miracleman completist, I wouldn't mind having a full set of the archive editions one day.

 

But ... there's no way I'd ever pay the price that New Dimension is asking - when they show up on ebay, they usually sell for less than half of the ND price, and I wouldn't really consider them good investment objects.

 

Also ... most of the archive editions I've seen (and owned) are not particularly high-grade - I've seen some #17's that were 9.6's, but that's the exception rather than the rule; in general you should expect the average condition to be around VF/NM and definitely not worth slabbing. The #23 platinum is the worst of the bunch - I've yet to see a copy where the silver foil hasn't rubbed off on the cover, dropping to grade to no more than a VF.

OUCH! that's not good! I have been thinking about buying some, but the prices they ask for are just OUT THERE! plus I like to have my stuff graded, but knowing the averege grade is a VF/NM really makes me reconsider buying these which is a real shame! And I take it from from noticing your want list you have/had a N-Dimension MM#23 am I correct?

[mschmidt]

Yeah, I have a couple of MM #23's, including a signed Eclipse Archive platinum edition:

 

[Comicopolis]

[EwanUK]

Yeah, I have a couple of MM #23's, including a signed Eclipse Archive platinum edition:

 

 

Wow, Michael very impressive no.23 spread! Found a 9.8 yet?

 

As above, they are most definitely pre-fabs but I like them too - it is, after all, original Totleben art. The only thing that has always bothered me is you have no way of knowing if the no. of copies stated is actually correct.

The full list is as follows -

 

Miracleman no.4 "Gold Edition" Limited to 175

Miracleman no.4 "Royal Blue Edition" Limited to 25

Miracleman no.5 "Platinum Edition" Limited to 99

Miracleman no.8 "Gold Edition" Limited to 199

Miracleman no.8 "Blue Edition" Limited to 99

Miracleman no.8 "Ruby Red Edition" Limited to 25

Miracleman no.17 "Gold Edition" Limited to 199

Miracleman no.17 "Platinum Edition" Limited to 99

Miracleman no.17 "Ruby Red Edition" Limited to 25

Miracleman no.23 "Platinum Edition" Limited to 50

Miracleman 3D "Gold Edition" Limited to 199

Miracleman 3D "Blue Edition" Limited to 99

 

There were also unique "prototypes" of no.s 2,3,5 & 16 exist "STAMPED IN GOLD AS TEST RUN PRIOR TO ACTUAL PRODUCTION". These sold on eBay in 2005 for a $999 BIN.

 

The best (again as above) is the no.23. I sold the copy below for close to £50 in 2006.

 

I still have a CGC copy of No.17 Gold and a raw NM copy of no.5 Platinum.

 

There are a number of other signed MM New Dimension books too...

 

 

Here's the original leaflet too - and some other rare bits

 

 

regards

Ewan no.2 set

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The thing that REALLLLLLLLY bothers me about the Archive editions is that CGC has been grading them Universal.

 

They are not Universal, they are Qualified books. They had something added to them long, long after the books were printed, and not even by the publisher!

 

If the Valiant VVSS books are qualified, so too should the Archive editions.

[mschmidt]

CGC considers the Archive editions variants - and labels them as such.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Yes, and they go in Universal slabs, which is incorrect, as I stated.

[mschmidt]

Yes, and they go in Universal slabs, which is incorrect, as I stated.

 

I disagree.

 

If CGC considers them a variant, they belong in a Universal slab. It's no different than a Dynamic Forces variant that also gets a blue label. Or the multitude of ASM #300 variants - some done by Marvel, some done by other companies. Etc.

[RockMyAmadeus]

These are not "variants", any more than if I hot stamped a piece of foil on a copy of Amazing Spiderman #300 right now, today, and called IT a "variant."

 

These were not produced by Eclipse at the time of manufacture, nor were they produced on BEHALF of Eclipse, or at the DIRECTION of Eclipse, at the time of manufacture. They were long unsold REGULAR warehouse stock that, over a decade later, were then "foiled" by a totally unrelated company who happened to purchase that overstock (which company doesn't even publish comics, not that that matters.)

 

And Dynamic Forces does not make variants. DF has license agreements with publishers for said publishers to print variants at the same time as the regular versions and then be distributed exclusively by DF. From the back of a typical DF cert:

 

"The accompanying comic book has been produced exclusively by Marvel Comics for Dynamic Forces."

 

That means the publisher makes them, and then hands them over to DF for exclusive distribution. They are not qualified because the publisher made them.

 

DF does not take OLD comics found in warehouses and hot stamp foil them, and then market them as "variants."

 

Archive Editions should be in GLOD cases. They have "added after the fact" material that was not part of the original comic. That makes them Qualified. It's no different than if you or I found a warehouse full of Strawberry Shortcakes, added foil to them, which we could easily do, and called them "variants."

 

I imagine they are NOT in GLOD cases because no one really thought about it at CGC.

 

[mschmidt]

These are not "variants", any more than if I hot stamped a piece of foil on a copy of Amazing Spiderman #300 right now, today, and called IT a "variant."

 

These were not produced by Eclipse at the time of manufacture, nor were they produced on BEHALF of Eclipse, or at the DIRECTION of Eclipse, at the time of manufacture. They were long unsold REGULAR warehouse stock that, over a decade later, were then "foiled" by a totally unrelated company who happened to purchase that overstock (which company doesn't even publish comics, not that that matters.)

 

And Dynamic Forces does not make variants. DF has license agreements with publishers for said publishers to print variants at the same time as the regular versions and then be distributed exclusively by DF. From the back of a typical DF cert:

 

"The accompanying comic book has been produced exclusively by Marvel Comics for Dynamic Forces."

 

That means the publisher makes them, and then hands them over to DF for exclusive distribution. They are not qualified because the publisher made them.

 

DF does not take OLD comics found in warehouses and hot stamp foil them, and then market them as "variants."

 

Archive Editions should be in GLOD cases. They have "added after the fact" material that was not part of the original comic. That makes them Qualified. It's no different than if you or I found a warehouse full of Strawberry Shortcakes, added foil to them, which we could easily do, and called them "variants."

 

I imagine they are NOT in GLOD cases because no one really thought about it at CGC.

 

I honestly don't care whether you consider them variants or not - my point, which you seem to be missing, is that CGC does, and therefore CGC putting them in a blue label slab is correct. Because that's how CGC treats unsigned variants.

[Bosco685]

I honestly don't care whether you consider them variants or not - my point, which you seem to be missing, is that CGC does, and therefore CGC putting them in a blue label slab is correct. Because that's how CGC treats unsigned variants.

(thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

These are not "variants", any more than if I hot stamped a piece of foil on a copy of Amazing Spiderman #300 right now, today, and called IT a "variant."

 

These were not produced by Eclipse at the time of manufacture, nor were they produced on BEHALF of Eclipse, or at the DIRECTION of Eclipse, at the time of manufacture. They were long unsold REGULAR warehouse stock that, over a decade later, were then "foiled" by a totally unrelated company who happened to purchase that overstock (which company doesn't even publish comics, not that that matters.)

 

And Dynamic Forces does not make variants. DF has license agreements with publishers for said publishers to print variants at the same time as the regular versions and then be distributed exclusively by DF. From the back of a typical DF cert:

 

"The accompanying comic book has been produced exclusively by Marvel Comics for Dynamic Forces."

 

That means the publisher makes them, and then hands them over to DF for exclusive distribution. They are not qualified because the publisher made them.

 

DF does not take OLD comics found in warehouses and hot stamp foil them, and then market them as "variants."

 

Archive Editions should be in GLOD cases. They have "added after the fact" material that was not part of the original comic. That makes them Qualified. It's no different than if you or I found a warehouse full of Strawberry Shortcakes, added foil to them, which we could easily do, and called them "variants."

 

I imagine they are NOT in GLOD cases because no one really thought about it at CGC.

 

I honestly don't care whether you consider them variants or not - my point, which you seem to be missing, is that CGC does, and therefore CGC putting them in a blue label slab is correct. Because that's how CGC treats unsigned variants.

 

 

There's no point being missed.

 

CGC is wrong, by their own implied definitions.

 

It is not "correct" to slab these as "variants."

 

They are not.

 

Just like it is not correct to slab MUSEUM editions as "variants."

 

Luckily, that problem fixed itself.

 

Just because CGC DOES think they are "variants" doesn't mean they are, and it doesn't mean that CGC is slabbing these correctly. They are not. Scratch that...let's call it "CGC is not being consistent with their obvious policies concerning qualified books." Translation: they're calling them the wrong thing.

 

Were it a more visible situation, it would have been fixed long ago.

 

Sorry, charlie.

 

If you think adding something...anything...to a comic years after it was printed is perfectly acceptable, I've got a lot of people with restored books who beg to differ.

[RockMyAmadeus]

One more thing....if I had found the EC file copies, and slapped foil on each of those covers touting them as "EC Archive Editions"....would it be correct to put them in Universal slabs?

[Mr 9.8]

One more thing....if I had found the EC file copies, and slapped foil on each of those covers touting them as "EC Archive Editions"....would it be correct to put them in Universal slabs?

Oooo GOOD QUESTION!

[Jeffro.]

 

Sorry guys. My first chance to use that graemlin.

[Sal]

I actually agree with RMA here. It's less to do with the slabbed result of CGC treating them as variants as it is to do with that viewpoint in the first place

[EwanUK]

I don't care what people say they are either - they are nice to have. I just love all Miracleman items - illegitimate off-spring included!

 

Here's another back alley child....

 

[Mr 9.8]

^ VERY NICE! (thumbs u