PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Speedy-D]

Man, he agreed to a deal, then tried to change it a couple times, then backed out and said "Do what you gotta do," then blamed it on graders' notes...that reeks of buyer's remorse. I don't think I've ever seen so much defense of this position before in a PL dispute where the defendant hasn't even spoken up yet. So what if it's expensive? If you're the nervous sort, caveat the and hope for the best. And if knowing that CGC gave it an 8.0 isn't enough for you, again, caveat the . :shrug:

 

 

You don't see an issue with something being called NOT a stain or "an odd light" and having that be part of the description of a book pre-sale and then CGC identifying it as a "stain running through the entire book"?

 

If the buyer is relying on that initial description of the stain as part of his decision to purchase I don't see how it can be ignored given CGC's designation.

 

And I read through Bob's requests to alter the deal. None of those attempts involved paying the seller less than 100% of his asking original asking price. Doesn't sound like buyer's remorse.

he didn't say it wasn't a stain. He said he thought it was an odd light. And all of the attempts to change the deal seems sketchy to me. Not like it's a scam, but also not like someone who's fully committed to the deal. Finally, I personally wouldn't bring him up for the PL, if I felt like he honestly didn't want the book and I could still resell it for the same amount. But this isn't about me.

 

 

What's "an odd light"?

I assume it means a trick of the light...catching the light at an odd angle.

 

 

Here's the thing, if he wasn't sure of what it was when asked directly it would have been better to say that than what was said.

 

What was said could create an expectation on behalf of the buyer. Who knows better what's on the book than the person who owns the book? If you ask them if it's a stain and they think it's something else that creates expectations. Those expectations are what go into agreements to buy and sell. It's a material defect to many collectors. When someone relies on that descriptor and it turns out to be false then the underpinnings of the meeting of the minds that created their agreement is destroyed.

I know where you're coming from, but I don't agree. If I ask you what that thing on the corner is, and you say "I think the bottom back corner is just an odd light," I'm in the wrong if I think you've given me a definitive answer. And that's my problem, not yours.

 

Why did he ask for the graders' notes? Because he wasn't feeling 100% about the deal? That's totally understandable, but if he wasn't feeling 100% about the deal, why give the ?

[Ryan.]

So if the buyer is elected to the PL over this, his only recourse to get off is to buy a book he presumably doesn't want. Is that really what the seller wants?

[Logan510]

So if the buyer is elected to the PL over this, his only recourse to get off is to buy a book he presumably doesn't want. Is that really what the seller wants?

 

 

Apparently being a close friend of mine isn't enough

[slym2none]

Although, he is a close personal friend of Casey's. I suppose that should count as a Get Outta Jail Free card...

 

That wasn't the point...but you know that.

 

 

Don't you have some two year overdue commissions to wrangle out of someone?

 

Now, boys...

 

 

 

-slym

[Speedy-D]

Knowing both people reasonably well I can see both sides of the situation here.

 

Bob definitely is one of those picky collectors (and I mean that in a nice way) where he only purchases books that he is happy with in spite of what the number in the top left says or the price. He does pay good money for books he likes.

 

Also, as an aside that I feel is relevant, even after the question was asked in the thread (and answered by Dan) and the seller stated that he didn't think it was a stain, I still felt it was a stain. I was interested in the book myself and didn't engage because I couldn't get away what my eyes saw.

 

The bottom line is that in a case like this where there is any ambiguity the seller needs to proceed with caution as nobody knows what his pet peeves are going to be except for him. It looks like according to the black and white of the agreement, Bob is on the hook for the book.

 

As I said, technically according to the way the story is currently presented, he's in breach at this point.

 

Having said that, I have had plenty of board members in very good standing (upstanding members of the community) either not ship books or just forget about deals and not pay for them. I've given them a free pass at least the first time around because I realize that in those specific cases their intention wasn't to reneg. and in this case, I am not so sure it was Bob's intention to reneg on a deal.

 

To each their own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's where I'm stuck.

 

If the book is described as having anything less than the type of stain CGC identified is the buyer still on the hook for buying something that now has a description that is now different than when the agreement was struck?

 

If nothing had been said in the thread regarding the stain and if the seller didn't make any statements regarding what he thought that stain was, then it might be more clear cut, at least for me.

 

For me, too.

 

However unintentionally, the seller misrepresented the book. He was asked in the thread whether the book had a stain. He gave his honest opinion that it didn't and that what appeared to be a stain was a trick of the light. Turns out the book did have a stain.

 

But the buyer did, apparently, unconditionally say he would buy the book. He didn't include a proviso about not wanting the book should the apparent stain turn out to be an actual stain.

 

I suppose that if push comes to shove, the seller can insist that the buyer pay for the book or be put on the PL. But I agree with Bedrock that this would be a pretty hard-nosed position for a seller to take. (At least, I think that is Bedrock's point.)

I pretty much agree. I think I'd probably state the seller's misrepresentation somewhat less strongly, but if it were me and I didn't know the answer, I'd be much more explicit.

 

For instance, when I sell stuff for Anthony Castrillo, lots of folks ask me if they'll get 9.8s after grading. I tell them in no uncertain terms that, "I don't know. We usually get 9.8s, but not always, and I can't determine the difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8 with anything close to reliability."

[Speedy-D]

So if the buyer is elected to the PL over this, his only recourse to get off is to buy a book he presumably doesn't want. Is that really what the seller wants?

Is this not the situation with just about every case where the buyer hasn't paid?

[EC ed]

So if the buyer is elected to the PL over this, his only recourse to get off is to buy a book he presumably doesn't want. Is that really what the seller wants?

Would you make this same argument on behalf of a n00b who was put on the PL for not following through with a commitment to purchase a book "they no longer want"?

 

This situation sucks, and many of the arguments on behalf of Bob are fairly sensible...this one doesn't fly, though. Otherwise, the whole notion of the PL for purposes of enforcing 'take its' goes out the window.

 

Also, hypothetically speaking, perhaps this wouldn't be Bob's only recourse...but still, most of this is just until we hear from Bob, right?

[mikenyc]

Although, he is a close personal friend of Casey's. I suppose that should count as a Get Outta Jail Free card...

 

That wasn't the point...but you know that.

 

 

Don't you have some two year overdue commissions to wrangle out of someone?

 

::

 

Hey Speedy, remember when you went out of your way, dedicating free time to make a large number of boardies whole.

 

You are such a loser.

 

 

Haven't I embarrassed you enough publicly? Please keep quiet while the adults are talking.

 

 

Thank you

 

::

 

Hey Shia Lebouf I'm not sure if you're going for irony by reposting what I say to you, but if you are you are about as funny as usual.

 

You should realize mocking someone for being a good member and helpful to others is only helping your case of being one of the most useless members on these boards.

 

 

Your flippant response does nothing towards invalidating my point.

 

I apologize, you were saying how your personal relationship with the buyer should somehow make him immune from the rigmarole of the PL procedure. Then you attacked a boardie who does something positive for other members.

 

We were all enthralled, please continue.

[Ryan.]

So if the buyer is elected to the PL over this, his only recourse to get off is to buy a book he presumably doesn't want. Is that really what the seller wants?

Is this not the situation with just about every case where the buyer hasn't paid?

 

I wasn't asking rhetorically.

[Spider-Dan]

I didn't mis-represent the book. I provided pics and scans

 

I did NOT know whether it was a stain or not. I thought it could have been a weird shadow from the light because I never noticed the stain. Therefore I went with "odd-light" which quoted the Boardies question.

 

In the past Ive had potential buyers ask me to put the book on hold until we can work a deal, which Ive done. No problem

 

The buyer saw the same pics everyone else saw, and never asked for any more info. Surprising for a guy whos so picky on his books and this one having a 16K ask price.

 

[VintageComics]

As I said, technically he's on the hook for the book but knowing Bob very well, had he known about the stain up front he'd probably not had bought the book.

[Logan510]

Although, he is a close personal friend of Casey's. I suppose that should count as a Get Outta Jail Free card...

 

That wasn't the point...but you know that.

 

 

Don't you have some two year overdue commissions to wrangle out of someone?

 

::

 

Hey Speedy, remember when you went out of your way, dedicating free time to make a large number of boardies whole.

 

You are such a loser.

 

 

Haven't I embarrassed you enough publicly? Please keep quiet while the adults are talking.

 

 

Thank you

 

::

 

Hey Shia Lebouf I'm not sure if you're going for irony by reposting what I say to you, but if you are you are about as funny as usual.

 

You should realize mocking someone for being a good member and helpful to others is only helping your case of being one of the most useless members on these boards.

 

 

Your flippant response does nothing towards invalidating my point.

 

I apologize, you were saying how your personal relationship with the buyer should somehow make him immune from the rigmarole of the PL procedure. Then you attacked a boardie who does something positive for other members.

 

We were all enthralled, please continue.

 

 

[Speedy-D]

So if the buyer is elected to the PL over this, his only recourse to get off is to buy a book he presumably doesn't want. Is that really what the seller wants?

Is this not the situation with just about every case where the buyer hasn't paid?

 

I wasn't asking rhetorically.

If it's not rhetorical, you should ask the seller directly if it's what he wants. I'm not sure of the relevance, but we all wonder things.

[Spacy]

So if the buyer is elected to the PL over this, his only recourse to get off is to buy a book he presumably doesn't want. Is that really what the seller wants?

 

 

Apparently being a close friend of mine isn't enough

 

Please tell me this is a joke

[Speedy-D]

So if the buyer is elected to the PL over this, his only recourse to get off is to buy a book he presumably doesn't want. Is that really what the seller wants?

 

 

Apparently being a close friend of mine isn't enough

 

Please tell me this is a joke

He never knows if it's a joke until someone calls him on it. Then he says the opposite.

[erazer]

Someone may need to get their sarcasm and facetiousness detector repaired.

[mikenyc]

Although, he is a close personal friend of Casey's. I suppose that should count as a Get Outta Jail Free card...

 

That wasn't the point...but you know that.

 

 

Don't you have some two year overdue commissions to wrangle out of someone?

 

::

 

Hey Speedy, remember when you went out of your way, dedicating free time to make a large number of boardies whole.

 

You are such a loser.

 

 

Haven't I embarrassed you enough publicly? Please keep quiet while the adults are talking.

 

 

Thank you

 

::

 

Hey Shia Lebouf I'm not sure if you're going for irony by reposting what I say to you, but if you are you are about as funny as usual.

 

You should realize mocking someone for being a good member and helpful to others is only helping your case of being one of the most useless members on these boards.

 

 

Your flippant response does nothing towards invalidating my point.

 

I apologize, you were saying how your personal relationship with the buyer should somehow make him immune from the rigmarole of the PL procedure. Then you attacked a boardie who does something positive for other members.

 

We were all enthralled, please continue.

 

 

 

If I was outmatched I would do the same thing sport. (Thumbs u

 

It was fun while it lasted.

[Logan510]

So if the buyer is elected to the PL over this, his only recourse to get off is to buy a book he presumably doesn't want. Is that really what the seller wants?

 

 

Apparently being a close friend of mine isn't enough

 

Please tell me this is a joke

 

Of course it's a joke...though some people who have you believe otherwise.

 

 

All I said is I know Bob well enough to know he doesn't go out of his way to screw people over on comic deals. He's not a malicious person.

 

 

That's all

[Ryan.]

So if the buyer is elected to the PL over this, his only recourse to get off is to buy a book he presumably doesn't want. Is that really what the seller wants?

Is this not the situation with just about every case where the buyer hasn't paid?

 

I wasn't asking rhetorically.

If it's not rhetorical, you should ask the seller directly if it's what he wants. I'm not sure of the relevance, but we all wonder things.

 

You're not sure of the relevance of what the seller wants the outcome of this to be?

[Logan510]

Although, he is a close personal friend of Casey's. I suppose that should count as a Get Outta Jail Free card...

 

That wasn't the point...but you know that.

 

 

Don't you have some two year overdue commissions to wrangle out of someone?

 

::

 

Hey Speedy, remember when you went out of your way, dedicating free time to make a large number of boardies whole.

 

You are such a loser.

 

 

Haven't I embarrassed you enough publicly? Please keep quiet while the adults are talking.

 

 

Thank you

 

::

 

Hey Shia Lebouf I'm not sure if you're going for irony by reposting what I say to you, but if you are you are about as funny as usual.

 

You should realize mocking someone for being a good member and helpful to others is only helping your case of being one of the most useless members on these boards.

 

 

Your flippant response does nothing towards invalidating my point.

 

I apologize, you were saying how your personal relationship with the buyer should somehow make him immune from the rigmarole of the PL procedure. Then you attacked a boardie who does something positive for other members.

 

We were all enthralled, please continue.

 

 

 

If I was outmatched I would do the same thing sport. (Thumbs u

 

It was fun while it lasted.

 

I already won once you started toggling my posts to see what I said