PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Mr.Diggler]

The Probation List is seriously flawed. I know this because I, though I have never done anything that *normally* warrants being placed on it, have twice been threatened with being put on it myelf, the first time for recognizing that the list was flawed, and offering to sell to those people because of that, with strict conditions...and secondly, for refusing to sell to someone who themselves refused to honor their word. That is not the first time the latter has happened with others, by the way, and the PL has occasionally devolved into "well, if you're going to put ME on the list, I'm going to put YOU on the list, too!" nonsense which severely diminishes the value of the list.

 

Does that mean the PL has no value at all? No.

 

Diggler, like many commenting, have "unclean hands" when it comes to me, which is fine, so long as people are aware of the motives behind the posts.

 

As for "RMA is looking for attention"...right. That's why I don't post anything but emoticons and memes 98% of the time.

 

You know...for the attention.

Bullfudgeingshizzle, I call it as I see it. The guy said he would pay, let him buy the book and let the issue die...or you could drag it out and garner the proper amount of attention that you need to live and breath on this board. I have ZERO agenda in this matter, nor do I sell to PL turds. Put him on the PL and sell it to him then. I have clean hands in the sales forum unlike those that would sell to PL members of this board.

 

It was "let go" about 8 hours ago. Where were you?

 

As I said, Diggler, by his own admission here, does not have clean hands. Merely the fact that I will sell to people on the PL under my conditions is something he can't accept, and so he will do the very thing he accuses me of: draw attention to it to make sure everyone knows what a bad guy he thinks I am for doing it.. Classic group think behavior.

 

"Amount of attention that you need to live and breath (sic) on this board"...?

 

 

Learn how to have discussions, Diggler, without the personal attacks.

 

I'm making the same observation that many have made posting and via pm about you. Yes, it's all about you. I tend to think for myself and not with "the group".

Enough with the trolling, Diggler. YOU are the one dictating how people are to sell on this board, not me. I don't condemn you for selling the way you wish. Yet you condemn me for selling the way I wish.

 

You are the one who can't handle someone disagreeing with you, not me.

I'm not trolling so hump away, Joe. I follow the rules of the selling forum. You should too.

 

Offering to sell to people on the PL is not against the rules of the selling forum. Therefore, continuing to hound me about it is trolling.

You may be technically correct, it's an unwritten rule. As a great boardie said, I should have known better.

[joecgcmaniac]

Boy, July sure is a nice time for vacationing!

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The Probation List is seriously flawed. I know this because I, though I have never done anything that *normally* warrants being placed on it, have twice been threatened with being put on it myelf, the first time for recognizing that the list was flawed, and offering to sell to those people because of that, with strict conditions...and secondly, for refusing to sell to someone who themselves refused to honor their word. That is not the first time the latter has happened with others, by the way, and the PL has occasionally devolved into "well, if you're going to put ME on the list, I'm going to put YOU on the list, too!" nonsense which severely diminishes the value of the list.

 

Does that mean the PL has no value at all? No.

 

Diggler, like many commenting, have "unclean hands" when it comes to me, which is fine, so long as people are aware of the motives behind the posts.

 

As for "RMA is looking for attention"...right. That's why I don't post anything but emoticons and memes 98% of the time.

 

You know...for the attention.

Bullfudgeingshizzle, I call it as I see it. The guy said he would pay, let him buy the book and let the issue die...or you could drag it out and garner the proper amount of attention that you need to live and breath on this board. I have ZERO agenda in this matter, nor do I sell to PL turds. Put him on the PL and sell it to him then. I have clean hands in the sales forum unlike those that would sell to PL members of this board.

 

It was "let go" about 8 hours ago. Where were you?

 

As I said, Diggler, by his own admission here, does not have clean hands. Merely the fact that I will sell to people on the PL under my conditions is something he can't accept, and so he will do the very thing he accuses me of: draw attention to it to make sure everyone knows what a bad guy he thinks I am for doing it.. Classic group think behavior.

 

"Amount of attention that you need to live and breath (sic) on this board"...?

 

 

Learn how to have discussions, Diggler, without the personal attacks.

 

I'm making the same observation that many have made posting and via pm about you. Yes, it's all about you. I tend to think for myself and not with "the group".

 

Diggler, you have a very serious personal problem with me. I accept that. But that doesn't mean you get to defame me by making things up.

 

This fact remains: outside of specific situations..like this one...I have posted nothing but emoticons and memes for over a year and a half. If I was looking for attention, as you claim, I would do it by arguing with people...as, sadly, I'm doing with you.

 

This isn't about me, I didn't make it about me, but you and others...as you have done before...did again.

 

Please. Just stop.

[Mr.Diggler]

Boy, July sure is a nice time for vacationing!

 

It can be.

[bababooey]

Back in April I tried to stir up some interest/feedback in the discussion thread after the "Sales thread by PL member -threadkrapping strike"

 

My post, poll, sample templates & some discussion is here along with the poll results (which I've also posted below) - although the poll only got 31 votes at least people didn't go to the crack option - there was little discussion & it was quickly buried.

Edited July 24, 2013 by bababooey

[Mr.Diggler]

The Probation List is seriously flawed. I know this because I, though I have never done anything that *normally* warrants being placed on it, have twice been threatened with being put on it myelf, the first time for recognizing that the list was flawed, and offering to sell to those people because of that, with strict conditions...and secondly, for refusing to sell to someone who themselves refused to honor their word. That is not the first time the latter has happened with others, by the way, and the PL has occasionally devolved into "well, if you're going to put ME on the list, I'm going to put YOU on the list, too!" nonsense which severely diminishes the value of the list.

 

Does that mean the PL has no value at all? No.

 

Diggler, like many commenting, have "unclean hands" when it comes to me, which is fine, so long as people are aware of the motives behind the posts.

 

As for "RMA is looking for attention"...right. That's why I don't post anything but emoticons and memes 98% of the time.

 

You know...for the attention.

Bullfudgeingshizzle, I call it as I see it. The guy said he would pay, let him buy the book and let the issue die...or you could drag it out and garner the proper amount of attention that you need to live and breath on this board. I have ZERO agenda in this matter, nor do I sell to PL turds. Put him on the PL and sell it to him then. I have clean hands in the sales forum unlike those that would sell to PL members of this board.

 

It was "let go" about 8 hours ago. Where were you?

 

As I said, Diggler, by his own admission here, does not have clean hands. Merely the fact that I will sell to people on the PL under my conditions is something he can't accept, and so he will do the very thing he accuses me of: draw attention to it to make sure everyone knows what a bad guy he thinks I am for doing it.. Classic group think behavior.

 

"Amount of attention that you need to live and breath (sic) on this board"...?

 

 

Learn how to have discussions, Diggler, without the personal attacks.

 

I'm making the same observation that many have made posting and via pm about you. Yes, it's all about you. I tend to think for myself and not with "the group".

 

Diggler, you have a very serious personal problem with me. Nope.

 

I accept that. But that doesn't mean you get to defame me by making things up.

No defamation.

 

This fact remains: outside of specific situations..like this one...I have posted nothing but emoticons and memes for over a year and a half. Good for you.

 

If I was looking for attention, as you claim, I would do it by arguing with people...as, sadly, I'm doing with you. Sadly, you will sell to pl members.

This isn't about me, I didn't make it about me, but you and others...as you have done before...did again. (thumbs u

Please. Just stop. Sure, no problem, I have to take my kitten to the vet in the am. Good night ,Joe.

[Bosco685]

Back in April I tried to stir up some interest/feedback in the discussion thread after the "Sales thread by PL member -threadkrapping strike"

 

In my years of buying and selling on here, my understanding is:

 

1) If someone has landed on the PL or HOS, it was because they did not follow through with one or more transactions that impacted fellow board members. So someone is out money either due to an item not being paid for, or after mailing a collectible a chargeback or some other approach led to money being taken back or not paid.

 

Knowing a fellow board member has been impacted:

 

2) It is highly encouraged not to deal with that person on the PL/HOS in order to force their hand to complete the transaction with the offended party, or to move along so others do not experience the same fate.

 

What's so hard to comprehend or support with that community expectation? This has nothing to do with personal feelings or dislike of a board member. It is a community norm to act as one body to force a positive result for one another, whether a buyer or a seller.

[Ryan.]

So is Kitsune going on the PL or not? I lost track somewhere in the last 15 pages of one of the more boring slapfights I've seen on these boards.

[Speedy-D]

So is Kitsune going on the PL or not? I lost track somewhere in the last 15 pages of one of the more boring slapfights I've seen on these boards.

no

[Bosco685]

So is Kitsune going on the PL or not? I lost track somewhere in the last 15 pages of one of the more boring slapfights I've seen on these boards.

no

 

You really thought that was a serious question?

 

[Speedy-D]

So is Kitsune going on the PL or not? I lost track somewhere in the last 15 pages of one of the more boring slapfights I've seen on these boards.

no

 

You really thought that was a serious question?

 

didn't think about it

[Bosco685]

So is Kitsune going on the PL or not? I lost track somewhere in the last 15 pages of one of the more boring slapfights I've seen on these boards.

no

 

You really thought that was a serious question?

 

didn't think about it

 

 

That was a "gotta add my " with a little helping of "man, I wanted to see that turn into a huge fight so I can sit back and laugh" statement.

[Ryan.]

Not really. These endless posts of hissyfitting are fine for CG but this is the probation discussion. It serves its purposes more effectively when it stays on target.

[bababooey]

Back in April I tried to stir up some interest/feedback in the discussion thread after the "Sales thread by PL member -threadkrapping strike"

 

In my years of buying and selling on here, my understanding is:

 

1) If someone has landed on the PL or HOS, it was because they did not follow through with one or more transactions that impacted fellow board members. So someone is out money either due to an item not being paid for, or after mailing a collectible a chargeback or some other approach led to money being taken back or not paid.

 

Knowing a fellow board member has been impacted:

 

2) It is highly encouraged not to deal with that person on the PL/HOS in order to force their hand to complete the transaction with the offended party, or to move along so others do not experience the same fate.

 

What's so hard to comprehend or support with that community expectation? This has nothing to do with personal feelings or dislike of a board member. It is a community norm to act as one body to force a positive result for one another, whether a buyer or a seller.

I did the poll to try and clarify the community expectation, it is fairly clear that most agree with you that we shouldn't be engaging PL/HOS members in sales transactions here. I don't necessarily agree with that outcome and I will share my thoughts on it.

 

My own personal opinion is that I don't want a PL/HOS member to be able to create a thread and sell here without the community being able to post a "warning to others" in that thread referencing their PL/HOS status - (understand that the poll result probably should have resulted in us asking Arch to have the mods delete their sales threads)

As far as selling to a PL/HOS I feel people are free to do that at their own risk but I think the best approach is to keep it private via PM. I don't think the community should pry into people's business dealings trying to enforce who anyone can or can't do business with. The reasoning is simple. If we said - no dealings with PL members at all - it can't be enforced & when it is discovered, we'd have a bunch of "Empowered-Nerd-Pile-On" threads like we seem to be seeing with more regularity in CG.

 

I like the community supporting others who are "out of pocket" on deals by not doing business with certain parties but I also try to review the specific history of the infraction before I voice an opinion because I don't agree with every PL/HOS nomination.

[Bosco685]

Not really. These endless posts of hissyfitting are fine for CG but this is the probation discussion. It serves its purposes more effectively when it stays on target.

 

That is what I tried to do is talk about PL/HOS norms and how PL resolutions are usually handled. Making it out to be a personal attack was noise this thread didn't need.

 

But the buyer was wrong for then making it a joke, rather than displaying a sincere willingness to resolve the situation. That definitely hurt his reputation majorly.

[vader2001]

RMA is not the only person to sell to PL people, I have seen a few :takeit:'s in threads by people on the list. The way I look at it is that it's up to the sell if he/she wants to sell to people on the list. If he wants to, that's RMA's choice. You don't have to like it or respect it, but it's still his choice.

 

 

 

 

Maybe we should have a little doucherag list.

kitsune

 

 

 

Never thought I would read a post by Jimmy that actually made sense...... Then the Jimmy I have read popped back!

[Speedy-D]

RMA is not the only person to sell to PL people, I have seen a few :takeit:'s in threads by people on the list. The way I look at it is that it's up to the sell if he/she wants to sell to people on the list. If he wants to, that's RMA's choice. You don't have to like it or respect it, but it's still his choice.

 

 

 

 

Maybe we should have a little doucherag list.

kitsune

 

 

 

Never thought I would read a post by Jimmy that actually made sense...... Then the Jimmy I have read popped back!

Every time someone does a transaction with someone on the PL, they're making it that much less likely the person who put them on the PL will get restitution. That's what's wrong with it.

[Bosco685]

I like the community supporting others who are "out of pocket" on deals by not doing business with certain parties but I also try to review the specific history of the infraction before I voice an opinion because I don't agree with every PL/HOS nomination.

 

That is a tough one, as if someone starts selectively choosing when to support community expectations, then some bad transaction behavior may not be addressed effectively. That's what CapFreak was doing, and bragged about his PM transactions.

 

You are right. The PL/HOS serves as a reference. There are no solid rules how buyers and sellers must support these lists. It is more assumed community support of the offended parties, while also attempting to avoid additional troubled transactions.

[Bosco685]

Every time someone does a transaction with someone on the PL, they're making it that much less likely the person who put them on the PL will get restitution. That's what's wrong with it.

 

That's a bingo!

 

There is no pressure to resolve a transaction if PL/HOS buyers and sellers can continue on either privately or publicly. That's a problem.

[Bio-Rupp]

RMA is not the only person to sell to PL people, I have seen a few :takeit:'s in threads by people on the list. The way I look at it is that it's up to the sell if he/she wants to sell to people on the list. If he wants to, that's RMA's choice. You don't have to like it or respect it, but it's still his choice.

 

 

This has became quite the quandary....

 

Let's take RMA's name out of the equation for a minute and just say "anyone who sells to PL members".

 

If you sell to anyone on the PL list... thus knowingly ignoring what it stands for ... how can you justify using the same PL to punish or threaten someone when one of your failed sales qualifies you to be able to use it?