any low CAF email offers?

[Bronty]

Hey Im new to the forum but i would like to add into this. Im 19 years old and in the past year just started to get into collecting Original Art. Seeing as how im 19 and in college i cant afford such expensive comic art. My grail pieces i own are $600-$900s only. Gotta aim low for now...

 

But I absolutely have lowballed a couple times. I made an offer on a Jim Lee Batman Hush Splash. I know its forth at least 5K but most of the time i lowball just to see with there will be a counteroffer. I dont purposely offer the person $600 for a page over 5K because i blindly believe they will accept. I offered the guy 2K and he countered but i couldnt afford his asking price. But the reason i lowballed worked for my sake in hoping for a counter.

 

I have to agree with everyone else. It doesn't even matter if its art or comics or whatever... if I get an offer from somebody of 50% of FMV I feel like that person is a) not serious b) wasting my time. A lot of us on CAF are a little bit older than you - married, kids maybe, work full time, etc. Time gets to be more and more at a premium when you get older. At 19 I might have thought "what's the harm its just an email". At 33 I think "don't waste my flipping time - you contacted me, not the other way around so don't pizz around with offers you know I won't accept."

 

Instead of trying for deals you will never get, if you make fair offers on those $600-900 pieces, make connections with collectors who maybe do have those $5k pieces, earn some respect, yada yada.... they might throw you a bone once in a while. By now maybe the like you on a personal level, and know you like a piece of theirs. Yet they need to raise some money so they let you have it for a real good deal. That sort of scenario will happen over time. The home run scenario will never happen and you will just upset people.

 

At the end of the day you'll have much better luck if you build bridges instead of burning them.

 

When I want to sell something (not even talking about art here, this is universal) I have "favorite buyers" in mind already. People I've dealt with before that are zero hassle, I can trust to pay me, that I have a history with. Being that guy is your best bet. Being the guy who wants the 5k piece for 2k is just going to get you ignored...

[itssmeeeeee]

i see what you guys are talking about. Im not the guy that constantly does it. i've done it twice. Now i know not to do it constantly. I never knew reputation with other higher collectors were so important. Now i know. I just wanted to share my experience from the lowballer side. thanks a lot! i'll just stick with the $500-800 pages.

[Khazano]

Heres a low ball some of you will probably get a kick out of...

 

Someone just offered too trade me their Liefeld Youngblood cover for my Jim Lee Superman cover...

 

 

[gambron]

 

In my opinion, they aren't worth that much today..

 

 

You wouldn't buy the best cover in Marvel's 70 year history for $600 ?

 

. I certainly would.. but in the case of that piece (best cover of Marvel), it most definitely isn't a MacFarlane piece.

 

However, I am being humorous.. I know his art is valuable and I have sold some for what I consider to be outrageous prices. In my personal opinion - he's a hack artist - and I have never seen a MacFarlane piece that I would have ever put in my own collection.. Different strokes for different folks.. I'll let someone else stroke MacFarlane

 

 

Hmmmmmm. The guy breathed new life and energy into (arguably) the most iconic character in comic history (haters please flip through ASM #312-#328) on his way to becoming THE most popular artist at the absolute peak ("The boom") of our beloved hobby. He then launched an insanely popular character/title that's still running almost 20 years later, not to mention the overall success of his Toy/Comic company. Not too shabby for a "HACK."

 

Clearly everyone is entitled to their opinion but when that opinion takes on the tone of a back-handed, personal attack on an artist I take offense. I have no idea what inspires you as a collector but I would bet that you're primarily a Golden Age/Silver Age (which I also like) collector who's rude comments are designed to somehow over-compensate for the fact that McFarlane has become more popular than some artists that you prefer. By all means give us your opinion, but please show some respect to a very respected artist in the process.

 

Respectfully...

 

-Ken Rodgers

 

[Mighty Hal]

Clearly everyone is entitled to their opinion but when that opinion takes on the tone of a back-handed, personal attack on an artist I take offense.

 

Take a deep breath. We collect comic art, we have strong opinions, and if you don't feel that we can't call a highly successful, much admired, comic artist "a hack" now and then, well...you've come to the wrong boards. It's one man's opinion and it happens all the time.

 

But if you just don't feel that way, that's okay, too. Do me a favor: I enjoy Rob Liefeld's art. Truly do. (For instance, I have a Liefeld Youngblood cover that I wouldn't trade for Khazano's Jim Lee Superman cover.) I am possibly alone in my enjoyment of RL's abilities. So, if you're gonna stop artists from being criticized, please start with Rob Liefeld. I suspect you'll have a full-time job but the Rob Liefeld Appreciation Society (membership: me) will thank you.

 

We criticize too much, we praise too much, we obsess too much. It's what we do. It's one reason I enjoy the boards. The people here are passionate. You, too, Ken. I hope you'll stick around.

 

 

 

[Khazano]

Clearly everyone is entitled to their opinion but when that opinion takes on the tone of a back-handed, personal attack on an artist I take offense.

 

 

 

But if you just don't feel that way, that's okay, too. Do me a favor: I enjoy Rob Liefeld's art. Truly do. (For instance, I have a Liefeld Youngblood cover that I wouldn't trade for Khazano's Jim Lee Superman cover.) I am possibly alone in my enjoyment of RL's abilities. So, if you're gonna stop artists from being criticized, please start with Rob Liefeld. I suspect you'll have a full-time job but the Rob Liefeld Appreciation Society (membership: me) will thank you.

 

 

 

 

For the record I am a Liefeld fan and own a YoungBLOOD cover by him too.

[Meeley Man]

Clearly everyone is entitled to their opinion but when that opinion takes on the tone of a back-handed, personal attack on an artist I take offense.

 

Take a deep breath. We collect comic art, we have strong opinions, and if you don't feel that we can't call a highly successful, much admired, comic artist "a hack" now and then, well...you've come to the wrong boards. It's one man's opinion and it happens all the time.

 

Sorry, I have to back up Ken on this one.

 

If someone doesn't like a certain artist's style or flair (or lack thereof), that's fine. It is their opinion and they are welcome to it. But a term like "hack" carries a lot more weight, than merely an expression of disinterest or dislike in a particular artist's style. The word is to denote, not just a visual displeasure with their style, but suggests a mentality about the artist, in which quality doesn't matter to them and they only care about the paycheck (hence the term "hacking out the pages").

 

Unless one personally knows an artist well-enough, or enough private information has been made public about them, then terms like "hack" should be refrained from, when you simply want to express a dislike/disinterest in the work and stylings of an artist. Using such a potent term in such a haphazard way, is at best, highly irresponsible, or at worst, outright slanderous. Is it any wonder why language seems to have little value or meaning today? When "bad" means "good," or the term "slut" is seen as a badge of honor and not an undesirable adjective to describe you, something is very wrong.

 

"Hack" is a term that should only be brought out when it can be clearly and undisputably proven. Throwing it around wholesale, to simply express dislike of an artist's style, is wrong and needs to be challenged. If you want to personally believe an artist is a "hack," that's fine. But unless you can prove that they are, you need to keep that "personal opinion" just that... PERSONAL.

 

And in this specific case of McFarlane (not MacFarlane), given the outlines of his career that Ken did, I think it is hard-pressed to call such an artist a "hack," as very rarely will one attain such heights in popularity and financial success, as McFarlane has done. You can't be that successful, without having SOMETHING in the way of skills.

 

Just my

[Bronty]

I've told this story a couple times now on these boards but back at the height of his popularity as a comic book artist he attended a local con (he's from the area) and the line must have been three miles long, and right in front of the dealer's table my friend and I had. Todd went out of his way on his own initiative to have the entire line moved so just people would be able to access our books, and I was just a 15 year old kid selling $20 books. It was incredibly nice of him to notice (he noticed before I did ) and act on it... it showed a selflessness that made me respect him immediately. Here he is Mr. Bigshot and he's worried about making sure the 15 year old comic dealer makes an extra $100 that day. Says a lot.

[MutantKeys]

I get lowballed all the time. I usually accept them too

[Bronty]

[theloveforart]

I can't believe it...

2 people in the same day said that they actually like....Rob Liefeld....

that must have the same odds as getting hit by lightning in one day.

Hope it doesn't rain.

[Bronty]

[irchooker]

I can't believe it...

2 people in the same day said that they actually like....Rob Liefeld....

 

In their defense, a decent percentage of OA collectors are nostalgia collectors (anyone want to try and pin a number on that? 98% are nostalgic to some degree, while 52% are 100% nostalgia-only collectors... that sort of thing) and it's hard to turn your back on the 12 to 15 year old comic reader living inside. Personally, I've been looking for a Liefeld page for years; not very hard, mind you, but looking. For me, it would have to be from Hawk and Dove LS or the first 5 or so issues of New Mutants. Those fall right into that window of age, series I collected pre- and/or post-Liefeld, but at the same time they might not be Liefeld-representative in that he was new to comics and the inkers had a lot of responsibility over the look of the work. Right around New Mutants 93 he became 'the guy' and began stylizing his own look, all while dropping the backgrounds.

[Khazano]

I can't believe it...

2 people in the same day said that they actually like....Rob Liefeld....

 

and it's hard to turn your back on the 12 to 15 year old comic reader living inside.

 

 

thank u

[TStrong-migration]

I think that sometimes a lowball offer comes from inexperience not a money grab.

I'm inexperienced and haven't made any offers because I don't want to insult anybody.

 

Maybe someone here can educate me on how to make an appropriate offer for the oddball stuff. I don't mean the Jim Lee SUPERMAN covers or the Bruce Timm splash pages kind of thing. I'm learning how to research and I think I have an idea of what I'd offer for a Lee or Timm original.

 

But how much do you offer for a Jones FATALE stand-up design or t-shirt design? Or a TRENCHER pin-up? Not many people would seem to collect TRENCHER but I've never seen a cover or splash or pin-up offered.

 

How much do you offer for a Tom McWeeney TOM STRONG #14 cover? As far as I can tell, it's the only McWeeney cover out there. He says people ask about it every week and it isn't for sale yet. Is it a thousands of dollars piece or a dozens of dollars piece?

 

[Meeley Man]

I think that sometimes a lowball offer comes from inexperience not a money grab.

 

Maybe someone here can educate me on how to make an appropriate offer for the oddball stuff.

 

But how much do you offer for a Jones FATALE stand-up design or t-shirt design? Or a TRENCHER pin-up? Not many people would seem to collect TRENCHER but I've never seen a cover or splash or pin-up offered.

 

Yeah, I have to agree with you on this. No one expects a Jim Lee or Adam Hughes piece to be cheap, but what about lesser talents? Artists who never made a huge splash, or became hot commodities, are often times much harder to guage a price for, just as much as the oddball pieces are.

[irchooker]

The answer you should expect: offer what you are willing to pay.

 

Personally, if I want something (and I don't intend to collect that particular artist/series/similar item) I have no problem setting the market (because while that will get you offered the cream of the crop, the finances might not be able to handle the burden; your mileage may vary). You might not ever be able to flip it, but if that isn't your concern, then go for it. A great recent example to this is my purchase of the cover to Wild Dog #1. I wanted it and in a closed bid process I offered the artist far more than anyone else, hence, I now own it.

 

But obviously, especially for comic collectors with price guides, no one wants to feel taken advantage of and it can be difficult to research every FMV for every individual, one of a kind item. So I have an internal price point for non-key/big creators (the Neal Adams, the Jim Lees)/non-collecting wheelhouse (titles/creators I know the market for very well). And that number is low.

 

Where that gets you into trouble is with guys that are, to some people, considered big, or newly big, like Bianchi/ Bermejo/Djurjevic; guys that I don't care about, new creators that have impacted the market. I wouldn't pay the prices these trade at, but if I really wanted something: see rule #1, setting the market.

 

For the rest, basically what I consider that chaff, I have that price: $250 for a cover, $50 for a page sort of hard and fast rule. (These numbers might not reflect my true beliefs, but are an example).

 

So if you're not SURE you want to pay way to much and keep it forever, just stay strong. While they are one of a kind, there is always another great piece of art around the corner.

[bocaratondefense]

So if you're not SURE you want to pay way to much and keep it forever, just stay strong. While they are one of a kind, there is always another great piece of art around the corner.

 

There is no greater truth in collecting than this.

 

While it is true that any particular page is one of a kind, there are thousands of great pages auctioned each year. Additionally there are tens of thousands of great pages offered in dealer inventories. If those are still not good enough for you, then you can take a look at the CAF and try to make strong offers on tens of thousands of great artwork there.

[Mighty Hal]

Where that gets you into trouble is with guys that are, to some people, considered big, or newly big, like Bianchi/ Bermejo/Djurjevic; guys that I don't care about, new creators that have impacted the market. I wouldn't pay the prices these trade at, but if I really wanted something: see rule #1, setting the market.

 

Some great advice there, irchooker. And, of course, image and nostalgia has a huge impact on what someone will pay or want.

 

A little off-topic, but since you brought it up....

 

I'm watching the Bianchi/Bermejo/Djurjevic types with interest because they started out by asking thousands of dollars for their cover artwork. Their artwork, often very nice artwork, and it's their right to do so. I'm curious if the resale (auction house/eBay/etc) market will support the initial price tags.

 

[NelsonAI]

All these lowball tatics must be working on some people