Brittle Pages - How Much Life Left?

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

....but unfortunately ours is a cost driven hobby wrapped in stigma.

 

 

Funny! Sounds like Shrek!

[PreHero]

Interesting. I was aware of the de acidification process, but this sounds like it goes a little further. I understand that once a book has gone beyond a certain point, there's no coming back (those bags with little brown flakes on the bottom).

 

I would imagine this would work best on books not yet brittle, but heading that way. Seems to be worthwhile restoration, to avoid having a bag full of paper flakes!

 

Can you recommend anyone who does this process or is this a normal restoration service?

 

Thanks.

[Ze-man]

Well I know we do at www.classicsincorporated.com (I know, shameless plug) It is pretty common in historical conservation, but fairly new to comic resto.

 

This Suspense 2 is a good example. Terribly brittle cover due to inferior cover stock and storage conditions. Cover was wet washed, re sized and leaf casted to rejoin the separate halves and fill missing paper. No CT on this book.

 

It is not only whole again, but the cover can be handled in a way now that would have previously resulted in chips on the floor. Mind you it's still fragile, but a far cry from a split, brittle cover sitting in a mylar.

 

 

 

 

[Darth Corgi]

That Suspense looks great! (thumbs u

 

I guess there is life after brittle for comics!

[innocuous]

Nice work. I looks like you saved it from the dustbin.

[PreHero]

Very nice. Thanks for the example. That cover would otherwise just continue to be damaged and flake apart. It certainly lightened the covers and added flexibility back into the cover.

 

What about long term affects? Assuming it's stored properly, will this process weaken the paper or can the paper more easily become brittle?

[Thegoldenage]

VPD paper was discontinued because it there were several instances in which it seized to the comic pages.

 

Resizing with a water based solution changes the composition of the paper. It also changes the size of the paper. If you were to look at the fibers under a microscope, they would appear more spread apart. This contribues to a cover that feels "rougher" than an untreated comic. There is also the risk of color bleed, especially with red inks, and is most easily seen on the inside cover. Nothing wrong with this method of restoration, but things to be aware of.

 

I only know of one restorer who was ever successful at completely reversing brittleness. He used mustard gas (the same mustard gas that was used as a weapon in World War 1). Back in the early 90's I had him restore a brittle Action 3. The book came back with paper so supple the book could be rolled up and unrolled with no problems at all. Nearly 20 years later it remains supple.

[selegue]

...

 

I only know of one restorer who was ever successful at completely reversing brittleness. He used mustard gas (the same mustard gas that was used as a weapon in World War 1). Back in the early 90's I had him restore a brittle Action 3. The book came back with paper so supple the book could be rolled up and unrolled with no problems at all. Nearly 20 years later it remains supple.

 

Mustard gas??

Are you sure? I don't understand at all why that would work. It would make the paper more acidic, not less. I've read a lot about paper restoration and never heard of such a thing. Do you know who the restorer was? Is there anywhere I could read about this treatment?

 

Are you sure it wasn't ammonia or an amine?

 

Jack

[ciorac]

...

 

I only know of one restorer who was ever successful at completely reversing brittleness. He used mustard gas (the same mustard gas that was used as a weapon in World War 1). Back in the early 90's I had him restore a brittle Action 3. The book came back with paper so supple the book could be rolled up and unrolled with no problems at all. Nearly 20 years later it remains supple.

 

Mustard gas??

Are you sure? I don't understand at all why that would work. It would make the paper more acidic, not less. I've read a lot about paper restoration and never heard of such a thing. Do you know who the restorer was? Is there anywhere I could read about this treatment?

 

Are you sure it wasn't ammonia or an amine?

 

Jack

 

i know that ammonia has been used in the past. I've smelled it on some books years ago. Still strong smelling after years and years

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

...

 

I only know of one restorer who was ever successful at completely reversing brittleness. He used mustard gas (the same mustard gas that was used as a weapon in World War 1). Back in the early 90's I had him restore a brittle Action 3. The book came back with paper so supple the book could be rolled up and unrolled with no problems at all. Nearly 20 years later it remains supple.

 

Mustard gas??

Are you sure? I don't understand at all why that would work. It would make the paper more acidic, not less. I've read a lot about paper restoration and never heard of such a thing. Do you know who the restorer was? Is there anywhere I could read about this treatment?

 

Are you sure it wasn't ammonia or an amine?

 

Jack

 

i know that ammonia has been used in the past. I've smelled it on some books years ago. Still strong smelling after years and years

 

More importantly, where does one get Mustard Gas? Wouldn't that be a controlled substance, and who would risk playing with something so potentially dangerous to restore paper??

 

Talk about working in the trenches!

[PreHero]

Interesting. I've handled those types of books, where they feel thicker and have a rough cover. I'm sure I probably own some.

 

Never heard of the mustard gas treatment and wonder even if you could get some, whether it's legal! Could it be a variation not harmful to people? The results sound great though.

 

Hmmm, I one of those odd collectors who like to open the book and take a deep sniff of that old GA paper - wonder if that would be dangerous with the gas treatment!

[TheWatcher]

...

 

I only know of one restorer who was ever successful at completely reversing brittleness. He used mustard gas (the same mustard gas that was used as a weapon in World War 1). Back in the early 90's I had him restore a brittle Action 3. The book came back with paper so supple the book could be rolled up and unrolled with no problems at all. Nearly 20 years later it remains supple.

 

Mustard gas??

Are you sure? I don't understand at all why that would work. It would make the paper more acidic, not less. I've read a lot about paper restoration and never heard of such a thing. Do you know who the restorer was? Is there anywhere I could read about this treatment?

 

Are you sure it wasn't ammonia or an amine?

 

Jack

 

i know that ammonia has been used in the past. I've smelled it on some books years ago. Still strong smelling after years and years

 

More importantly, where does one get Mustard Gas? Wouldn't that be a controlled substance, and who would risk playing with something so potentially dangerous to restore paper??

 

Talk about working in the trenches!

 

He may have used sulfur mustard (from the CDC website) Until recently, it was available for use in the treatment of a skin condition called psoriasis Maybe that's how it was available to him?

[selegue]

...

 

I only know of one restorer who was ever successful at completely reversing brittleness. He used mustard gas (the same mustard gas that was used as a weapon in World War 1). Back in the early 90's I had him restore a brittle Action 3. The book came back with paper so supple the book could be rolled up and unrolled with no problems at all. Nearly 20 years later it remains supple.

 

Mustard gas??

Are you sure? I don't understand at all why that would work. It would make the paper more acidic, not less. I've read a lot about paper restoration and never heard of such a thing. Do you know who the restorer was? Is there anywhere I could read about this treatment?

 

Are you sure it wasn't ammonia or an amine?

 

Jack

 

i know that ammonia has been used in the past. I've smelled it on some books years ago. Still strong smelling after years and years

 

More importantly, where does one get Mustard Gas? Wouldn't that be a controlled substance, and who would risk playing with something so potentially dangerous to restore paper??

 

Talk about working in the trenches!

 

He may have used sulfur mustard (from the CDC website) Until recently, it was available for use in the treatment of a skin condition called psoriasis Maybe that's how it was available to him?

 

That's exactly the compound that I meant. (It sure is hard to find a chemical name or structure on the CDC website.) I have no idea why a compound that releases hydrochloric acid when it reacts with water would be good for paper preservation. Any residue in the paper would be hazardous and very malodorous ("rotten egg" or "natural gas" kind of sulfur smell).

 

I've handled compounds like "sulfur mustard." They're not gases at room temperature and not hard to contain in a good fume hood, but certainly not something I'd use on old newsprint.

 

I wonder if the treatment was really diethylzinc or triethylaluminum. Those are very effective at deacidifying and "buffering" pulp paper.

 

Jack

[Ze-man]

Are you sure all he did was introduce mustard gas?(whatever the form) What was the PQ like beforehand? Was chipping present, spine splits?

 

I can see how this could possibly de acidify or buffer newsprint, maybe. But am scratching my head as to how it reversed brittle paper to the point of suppleness.

 

I agree though it is not something I want to go sticking my nose in for a sniff test..

 

And on a side note if a wet washed cover feels rough in hand it was not done properly, but understand what you are saying.

 

 

[selegue]

Are you sure all he did was introduce mustard gas?(whatever the form) What was the PQ like beforehand? Was chipping present, spine splits?

 

I can see how this could possibly de acidify or buffer newsprint, maybe. But am scratching my head as to how it reversed brittle paper to the point of suppleness.....

 

 

Can you explain the deacification to me?

 

Jack

[Ze-man]

Are you sure all he did was introduce mustard gas?(whatever the form) What was the PQ like beforehand? Was chipping present, spine splits?

 

I can see how this could possibly de acidify or buffer newsprint, maybe. But am scratching my head as to how it reversed brittle paper to the point of suppleness.....

 

 

Can you explain the deacification to me?

 

Jack

 

Sorry, I was in a hurry heading out the door when I wrote that.

 

I should have just said I don't know the composition of Mustard Gas enough to say one way or another how it reacts with paper. If it can remove oils similar to solvents, does it dissipate 100% or do you have to wash it out excessively, does it act like Calcium Hydroxide or Magnesium Acetate because it is a type of chloride?

 

I am just confused what it actually introduces into brittle paper to make it supple again and how it could be anything but harmful to the book or the people who sniff it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

Read the Wikipedia entry on Mustard Gas and its after effects as well as how it can affect those who come into secondary contact with it. If that entry is correct it is pretty clear that book wasn't treated with Mustard Gas!!

 

Just what the hobby needs, Mustard Gas treated Golden Age to return suppleness to comic pages and destroy the nerve systems of collectors!

[innocuous]

Golden Age Hulk head hurts.

[selegue]

Read the Wikipedia entry on Mustard Gas and its after effects as well as how it can affect those who come into secondary contact with it. If that entry is correct it is pretty clear that book wasn't treated with Mustard Gas!!

 

Just what the hobby needs, Mustard Gas treated Golden Age to return suppleness to comic pages and destroy the nerve systems of collectors!

 

That's a relief.

 

I do have a few comic books that appear to have been treated with mustard.

Some other with ketchup.

 

They're no more supple, but certainly more tasty.

 

Jack

not sure about the gas

[EJR]

I think that any book that has started to go brittle has to be sprayed with deacidication spray to prevent further destruction.