Market Manipulation

[COI]

This was just mentioned in another thread but is something that I've been thinking about for the last 2 years.

 

We all know about the control and manipulation around the diamond market by De Beers. By controlling the flow of diamonds they create an artificial sense of rarity and prices reflect this.

 

A lesser example of market manipulation is Disney. They put out movies on Video/DVD, then lock them up and re-release them in 10 years. I have no idea how effective this is, but the intent to manipulate buyers is obvious.

 

How much do you guys think this goes on in the high end silver/bronze market, CGC or unslabbed? I personally get the feeling this is happening in the silver age.

 

For example, with the right connections and enough money, one could set out to purchase and pry every ASM #129 CGC 9.6 they can possibly find, hold them for a time(maybe many years) and then sell them off slowly, in effect taking control of the availability of a desired book.

 

Remember, I'm mostly talking about high end stuff, not the thousands of people hording un-opened cases of Origin #1.

 

And try not to let this thread turn into another "gloom and doom"

market crash-o-rama.

[murph0]

I think it would only really work well with a book that there could be a real limited number to..so like that ASM 19 or whatever it is that's a 9.9..you know there is probably very small chance theres another one..or maybe buy all the ASM 1 9.6's out there or something..it has to be something that it's close to 100 percent total of the material out there.

 

Brian

[delekkerste]

For example, with the right connections and enough money, one could set out to purchase and pry every ASM #129 CGC 9.6 they can possibly find

 

Nobody's getting their hands on my ASM #129 CGC 9.6. So all you specs go corner the market on some other book.

 

Gene

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

maybe buy all the ASM 1 9.6's out there

 

That might be a costly proposition considering that there are but 2 of them!!!

 

Go get em' Murph0, I know your were just giving examples, it's all in good fun

[murph0]

Yeh I'm just pointing out that it would need to be something that you could be fairly certain you could corner the market on. I mean if you were to buy every single ASM 75 in CGC 9.4 that's on the census right now..you wouldn't be cornering it b/c it's undeniable that more will PROBABLY show up. I guess you could temporarily corner a market, but with stuff constantly being sent in..it'd be hard to do with anything other then a very HTF grade of a silver or maybe even bronze book.

 

Brian

[COI]

Murph, you think 24 copies is a lot on a book that's in such high demand?

 

Anyway, I only mentioned ASM #129 in 9.6 as an example because it's rarely seen. I'm thinking that there might be people who do this with certain issues, and not necessarily just major keys.

 

For example, I can't count the number of slabbed high grade FF #44's, 46's I've seen, but I've only seen 2 #45's offered, 1 in 9.0 and 1 in 9.2. You can scream dark blue cover all you want, but that's not enough.

 

Again, ff #45 is just one example of many books that are strangely absent.

 

[murph0]

I never said it was a lot, I'm just saying that more stuff will continously leak in and that will hurt your attempt at a monopolistic hold on a certain book. I guess a good example would be ASM 28, that might be a decent book to corner all the 9.2's or something on the census, I guess.

 

Brian

[murph0]

I guess what I'm saying is that if you bought a bunch of ASM 129's in 9.6 and were going to time release them to maximize interest..you'd want to make sure no1 else could release one inbetween time..that way the interest level in your next one is cornered and not weakened by some third party who tosses one out before you do and steals your thunder.

 

Brian

[COI]

I see what your saying.

 

I'm just wondering if anyone knows if this is actually done. Does anyone know of someone who has 5 CGC 9.4 copies of a certain book? Or maybe not just 1 particular grade, maybe every 9.2-9.6 of a certain book. You wouldn't have to have EVERY one to have a decent monopoly, as there will always be guys who are holding for the long haul, maybe to their graves.

[murph0]

Comiclink has both of the 9.8's on the census for ASM 121 or 122..don't remember which.

 

Brian

[Rickdogg]

I had four copies of Iron Fist #14:

 

CGC 9.2 ow

CGC 9.2 White

CGC 9.4 ow/w

CGC 9.6 White

 

I dumped them exactly in that order (not the 9.6) and made a pretty good amount of money by selling the LG copies first.

[murph0]

I guess you could say I own 25 percent of the market for Iron Fist 14 35 cent variant

 

Brian

[Rickdogg]

I've personally never seen one in person..hell I don't know of anyone locally that has seen one in person...

[COI]

Does Josh from comiclink buy a lot for himself?

 

There have been a few instances where he outbid me on a book I really wanted, so I'd wait for it to be listed on comiclink and it would never show.

[murph0]

Couldn't tell ya. The ASM 59 he outbid me on he bought and put on his website. I'd guess the Defenders he bought for 2,200 dollars he has a buyer for.

 

Brian

[Joanna]

The difficulty with the analogy is that DeBeers is, in effect, the "manufacturer". This would be like Marvel putting out comics, but cherry-picking the very best copies and keeping them in a vault, then controlling when and how they 'leak' into the market.

 

The problem with trying to corner the market when you're a consumer is that there are always other consumers who either won't sell, or who have the book raw in the target condition and can send it in later to undermine your plan.

 

This plan could be done with a pedigree, however, and we've seen it happen. One dealer finds a pedigree, he gets all the books, then sells them to private collectors or other dealers, or he holds onto them. Imagine if the Church comics had never been broken up, but were still legendary. The original dealer would have a monopoly on Church copies, and could disperse them on his whim. "There's only one of these, folks, and here's your chance." Of course, once he started selling, there would be no control over the buyer flipping it.

 

So in your scenario, if you had all the 9.6 and above, and over the course of a couple of years sold 3 of them, those 3 people could always resell them and you're back to having competition.

 

However, we do have an example of someone trying to get a monopoly on this very board. I believe CI is attempting to buy every copy of Byrne's X-Men.

 

-- Joanna

[Bugaboo-migration]

Rickdog played the market perfectly. And that's exactly what this industry is....a market. I'm certain that there are individuals out there that hoard certain books in an effort to exert some control of price. Either for the current prices or for future prices.

 

One thing about the comic business is that it, for the most part, either stays steady or grows. When the stock market is down, investors go looking for other worthwhile places to put their money. And, more and more of them are turning to comics, expecially since CGC came along. However, when the stock market is up, people have more disposable cash and can afford to buy more comics. So the comic industry doesn't fluxuate as wildly as some other markets. And this certainly entices some individuals to come in and try to exert whatever control they can on prices.

 

Just my two cents.

[Guest]

Comiclink has both of the 9.8's on the census for ASM 121 or 122..don't remember which.

'

 

So what about the nm/mt pair for sale on heritage?

[delekkerste]

I know ComicLink sold both of the ASM 121 CGC 9.8s. The first copy was bought on eBay for $2,138 (I know, because I was the runner-up) and then resold for $4,449 on eBay. It eventually made it to ComicLink and was sold for the high-$4,000s. The second copy was sold on eBay for $5,200 and then sold for a loss in the high $4,000s on ComicLink. So I don't think they have either copy right now.

 

I don't recall ComicLink having the ASM 122 CGC 9.8s.

 

Gene

[fantastic_four]

I'm guessing that ComicLink has spent more on behalf of others than for itself since CGC started. Certainly most of the multi-thousand dollar purchases of early Silver 9.4s to 9.8s were for other people. Several dealers act as brokers for clients who for whatever reason want to invest in comics.