Leaf Casted Brittle Pages

[Hero Restoration]

You definatly got to eat and I didn’t consider that the information you could give could be used by your competition, which you should take as a compliment as I didn’t think you had any on the level Classics Incorporated is at. (thumbs u

[rockman2008]

Why are you being such a ? Kenny wanted to show us the results of something that no other comic restoration professional would have even attempted and you're dressing him down for not spilling all of the details of the process? And then you tell him to google the MIT folds test, like he doesn't know what that is? Dude, get a grip and get over yourself.

 

You really are a tightly wound sphincter when others don't see your way. Give me a break. If I was down on Kenny's work, I wouldn't have jobs in his work queue for leaf casting. If I wanted to tell only one person to look up something, I would have done so by way of PM. However these threads are really speaking to an audience.

 

I think all of us can agree that Ken is already an expert at leaf casting; he can cast all kinds of pages based on photos he's shown. So I was somewhat puzzled as to this presentation with the emphasis on brittle pages...unless he was delivering a new subtext that somehow casting was related to a fix for brittleness. Without him filling in the details/caveats (plus responses like "what you've done is short of a miracle! ") I thought it better to clarify and bring the hype back down to earth. I wasn't impressed with the results in the last photo. But so what? We're friends. Ken knows I've seen work where casted brittle pages don't end up with wrinkles, and he knows there's always room for improvement.

[FFB]

Why are you being such a ? Kenny wanted to show us the results of something that no other comic restoration professional would have even attempted and you're dressing him down for not spilling all of the details of the process? And then you tell him to google the MIT folds test, like he doesn't know what that is? Dude, get a grip and get over yourself.

 

You really are a tightly wound sphincter when others don't see your way. Give me a break. If I was down on Kenny's work, I wouldn't have jobs in his work queue for leaf casting. If I wanted to tell only one person to look up something, I would have done so by way of PM. However these threads are really speaking to an audience.

 

I think all of us can agree that Ken is already an expert at leaf casting; he can cast all kinds of pages based on photos he's shown. So I was somewhat puzzled as to this presentation with the emphasis on brittle pages...unless he was delivering a new subtext that somehow casting was related to a fix for brittleness. Without him filling in the details/caveats (plus responses like "what you've done is short of a miracle! ") I thought it better to clarify and bring the hype back down to earth. I wasn't impressed with the results in the last photo. But so what? We're friends. Ken knows I've seen work where casted brittle pages don't end up with wrinkles, and he knows there's always room for improvement.

 

Of course there's room for improvement. The "miracle" I was referring to was the fact that the brittle pages are now flexible - hence my comment that "it is a comic book again." As you probably know, most conservators would refuse to work on a piece like that because they couldn't even get the paper back to the point where it is flexible.

 

It was not your questioning of the aesthetic results that made you a spoon. It was the pedantic way in which you dressed Kenny down for the aesthetic results when the point of his posting was to show that he was able to restore flexibility to brittle pages. From the other responses, it looks like this "tightly wound sphincter" wasn't the only one who thought you were out of line.

[rockman2008]

But this thread was not really intended to be about making brittle paper un brittle, it was about joining brittle pages like this with a new method that lent itself to better conserve the page as a whole.

 

This we can agree on. 'Nuff said.

 

[CheezyWhiz]

 

Leave Kenny alone! Please! I mean it!

[rockman2008]

It was not your questioning of the aesthetic results that made you a spoon. It was the pedantic way in which you dressed Kenny down for the aesthetic results when the point of his posting was to show that he was able to restore flexibility to brittle pages. From the other responses, it looks like this "tightly wound sphincter" wasn't the only one who thought you were out of line.

 

Yeah, I happen to like meaty threads full of pedantry. How can anyone learn something new without details. Although I can respect the need for not disclosing his methods to the competition, a lot of this stuff has been known for a long time.

 

As for dressing down Kenny, that wasn't the intent...and I hope he'll allow me to buy him a beer when we meet someday. He's a big boy and he certainly doesn't need you. Gee, how does one respond to something like this? You can't please everyone.

[rockman2008]

The "miracle" I was referring to was the fact that the brittle pages are now flexible - hence my comment that "it is a comic book again."

 

This is where we disagree, and I was trying to head off thoughts that there was something unique about leaf casting that make brittle pages flexible. In general you can skip expensive leaf casting and immerse brittle pages in water to regain flexibility.

 

Similarly a severe brittle page (which can snap like a potato chip) that can't be improved by immersion, also won't benefit from casting in terms of flexibility.

[FFB]

The "miracle" I was referring to was the fact that the brittle pages are now flexible - hence my comment that "it is a comic book again."

 

This is where we disagree, and I was trying to head off thoughts that there was something unique about leaf casting that make brittle pages flexible. In general you can skip expensive leaf casting and immerse brittle pages in water to regain flexibility.

 

Similarly a severe brittle page (which can snap like a potato chip) that can't be improved by immersion, also won't benefit from casting in terms of flexibility.

 

But the original paper isn't shattering like a potato chip when he bends it. It looks to me like he restored quite a bit of flexibility to it. If he had tried that with the page before treatment, it would disintegrate. I am not saying that the leaf casting did it - but clearly something that he did to the wrap resulted in a dramatic increase in flexibility.

[rockman2008]

The "miracle" I was referring to was the fact that the brittle pages are now flexible - hence my comment that "it is a comic book again."

 

This is where we disagree, and I was trying to head off thoughts that there was something unique about leaf casting that make brittle pages flexible. In general you can skip expensive leaf casting and immerse brittle pages in water to regain flexibility.

 

Similarly a severe brittle page (which can snap like a potato chip) that can't be improved by immersion, also won't benefit from casting in terms of flexibility.

 

But the original paper isn't shattering like a potato chip when he bends it. It looks to me like he restored quite a bit of flexibility to it. If he had tried that with the page before treatment, it would disintegrate. I am not saying that the leaf casting did it - but clearly something that he did to the wrap resulted in a dramatic increase in flexibility.

 

It's hard to say without any details. I was half-way hoping my "rudeness" would pi ss him off into spilling the beans.

[FFB]

The "miracle" I was referring to was the fact that the brittle pages are now flexible - hence my comment that "it is a comic book again."

 

This is where we disagree, and I was trying to head off thoughts that there was something unique about leaf casting that make brittle pages flexible. In general you can skip expensive leaf casting and immerse brittle pages in water to regain flexibility.

 

Similarly a severe brittle page (which can snap like a potato chip) that can't be improved by immersion, also won't benefit from casting in terms of flexibility.

 

But the original paper isn't shattering like a potato chip when he bends it. It looks to me like he restored quite a bit of flexibility to it. If he had tried that with the page before treatment, it would disintegrate. I am not saying that the leaf casting did it - but clearly something that he did to the wrap resulted in a dramatic increase in flexibility.

 

It's hard to say without any details. I was half-way hoping my "rudeness" would pi ss him off into spilling the beans.

 

More flies with honey than with vinegar and all that.

[Sal]

The "miracle" I was referring to was the fact that the brittle pages are now flexible - hence my comment that "it is a comic book again."

 

This is where we disagree, and I was trying to head off thoughts that there was something unique about leaf casting that make brittle pages flexible. In general you can skip expensive leaf casting and immerse brittle pages in water to regain flexibility.

 

Similarly a severe brittle page (which can snap like a potato chip) that can't be improved by immersion, also won't benefit from casting in terms of flexibility.

 

 

Thankfully, you arrived in time to save us from wayward thoughts of paper brittleness recovery via leaf casting. You're a bona fide board hero. Thanks for all that you do, friend

[ft88]

So a quick question. If I have a brittle book with dark brown edges that leave a nest worth or chip eggs in any bag you put it in. And the interior of the pages are tanning with the possibility of snapping like potato chips. Will this method allow me to curl the page without causing cracking or flaking off?

 

I'd be curious to see similar tests and results for a severe brittle book.

 

And even if it improved the book but didn't make it a "comic book again" it may still be worth it just to keep the ugly chips from falling off ever time it's even breathed upon.

 

Ed

[divad]

Now THAT's "brittle" . . .

[FFB]

Kenny said that the wrap in these photos was so brittle that it would fracture if you even breathed on it.

[ft88]

Well in looking at the pictures, i have no doubt they chipped when handled but I'm talking really bad browning which, from the pics show actually look OK. OK as in brittle but able to be handled.

 

I don't have an example on hand but I've had in the past much worse looking pages. Just curious as to how bad it can be where this is still useful and/or where is there diminishing returns.

 

This might make the difference for someone buying a harshly brittle and brown page Adventure 40 or some other key.

 

Ed

[Ze-man]

Hey Ed, I would imagine the process would help on some level, but if your pages as so far gone they would disintegrate when placed in a water bath,or even a float rinse then I doubt anything short of sandwiching the pages between japan paper would help. Hard to really say without seeing the pages in person.

 

Also keep in mind it is one thing to cast a brittle flat document or page to preserve it, and another altogether to cast and fold a page to be inserted into a comic. Not to mention it would not be cost very effective even on a GA key unless the only goal was to preserve the book. Leaf casting an entire brittle GA book would be most daunting. In other words,not every book can be saved.

 

The pages I casted in this thread were indeed brittle,and would snap if folded, but not so far gone as to leave a nest of paper behind if lightly mishandled. I never saw the entire book though and can only imagine how bad the outer wraps were, if any were even left.

 

 

[ft88]

Cool thanks. So the idea is that the pages would have to at least be able to stay together in a water bath. Seems like a good check to me.

 

Ed

[Ze-man]

Well, I suppose one could always spray the pages to wet them, but that does not really wash out any of the bad stuff from the paper.

 

Leaf casting relies of hydrogen bonding to work correctly which requires everything to be very wet, same principle as when paper is made.

 

We could always heat seal your pages in plastic, but then they would be pressed.

 

 

Oh no..I said the P word.

 

 

 

[seanfingh]

Well, I suppose one could always spray the pages to wet them, but that does not really wash out any of the bad stuff from the paper.

 

Leaf casting relies of hydrogen bonding to work correctly which requires everything to be very wet, same principle as when paper is made.

 

We could always heat seal your pages in plastic, but then they would be pressed.

 

 

Oh no..I said the P word.

 

 

 

You have to learn to pace yourself

Pressure

You're just like everybody else

Pressure

You've only had to run so far

So good

But you will come to a place

Where the only thing you feel

Are loaded guns in your face

And you'll have to deal with

Pressure

You used to call me paranoid

Pressure

But even you can not avoid

Pressure

[Hero Restoration]

. I never saw the entire book though and can only imagine how bad the outer wraps were, if any were even left.

 

 

Why didn't the owner send in the whole book? It seems odd to me you would only recieve the parts that needed work. Wouldn't it have been wise to have you do the disassemble and assemble?