To all who press books

[DrWatson]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Lock, stock and barrel . . . what a doofus

Still the biggest tool in the sandbox, I see.

[divad]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Lock, stock and barrel . . . what a doofus

Still the biggest tool in the sandbox, I see.

[FoomMember]

As already mentioned....CGC used to give a discount if you submitted the old label with the book. Why they no longer offer that discount is beyond me.

 

it's the same reason gas prices rise in the summer

[asteroid-comix]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Schroedinger's Cat? If the book has been put into the census at a grade, assuming no resubmit, what does it matter to the census if it were cracked? How does anyone know what happens to any of the books that are put into the census?

[VintageComics]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Schroedinger's Cat? If the book has been put into the census at a grade, assuming no resubmit, what does it matter to the census if it were cracked? How does anyone know what happens to any of the books that are put into the census?

 

Exactly.

 

 

[divad]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Schroedinger's Cat? If the book has been put into the census at a grade, assuming no resubmit, what does it matter to the census if it were cracked? How does anyone know what happens to any of the books that are put into the census?

 

Exactly.

 

 

Precisely.

[Aman619]

I dont think cracking a book out and storing the label in the mylar is so bad, or affects the census. But resubbing does some harm because it ADDS a book to the census. The cracked and mylared book may technically no longer count as a CGC census book, but, in all likelihood, if it doesnt get resubmitted, its still in the same condition. And many collectors will purchase a cracked book with a label from a trusted source. Of course, thats probably truer for GA or scarcer book where you are happy to get a midgrade copy at all.... and not a nosebleed Census topping copy where the slab is the whole point of buying the book.

[Aman619]

you guys beat me to it.

[VintageComics]

I dont think cracking a book out and storing the label in the mylar is so bad, or affects the census. But resubbing does some harm because it ADDS a book to the census. The cracked and mylared book may technically no longer count as a CGC census book, but, in all likelihood, if it doesnt get resubmitted, its still in the same condition. And many collectors will purchase a cracked book with a label from a trusted source. Of course, thats probably truer for GA or scarcer book where you are happy to get a midgrade copy at all.... and not a nosebleed Census topping copy where the slab is the whole point of buying the book.

 

Finally we agree.

 

[FFB]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Schroedinger's Cat? If the book has been put into the census at a grade, assuming no resubmit, what does it matter to the census if it were cracked? How does anyone know what happens to any of the books that are put into the census?

 

Actually, since you brought up Schroedinger's Cat, quantum mechanics dictates that until you crack the slab, the book in the census both exists and does not exist.

[DrWatson]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Schroedinger's Cat? If the book has been put into the census at a grade, assuming no resubmit, what does it matter to the census if it were cracked? How does anyone know what happens to any of the books that are put into the census?

Once a book is removed from the slab any number of things can happen to it. The census is a representation of graded books in existence. Once it's cracked, it's no longer graded. It is a book that was once graded by CGC and therefore, should not be represented in the census.

 

It's just that the census is a representation of slabbed books. If it's cracked out, it's no longer a slabbed book.

 

Ultimately, I don't care. The census is screwed six ways from Sunday anyways. It and the Registry are nothing but sales tools for CGC.

[asteroid-comix]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Schroedinger's Cat? If the book has been put into the census at a grade, assuming no resubmit, what does it matter to the census if it were cracked? How does anyone know what happens to any of the books that are put into the census?

 

Actually, since you brought up Schroedinger's Cat, quantum mechanics dictates that until you crack the slab, the book in the census both exists and does not exist.

The census is the box and the slab is the cat. Once the book is in the census, it both exists in the slab and not in the slab

[VintageComics]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Schroedinger's Cat? If the book has been put into the census at a grade, assuming no resubmit, what does it matter to the census if it were cracked? How does anyone know what happens to any of the books that are put into the census?

Once a book is removed from the slab any number of things can happen to it. The census is a representation of graded books in existence. Once it's cracked, it's no longer graded. It is a book that was once graded by CGC and therefore, should not be represented in the census.

 

It's just that the census is a representation of slabbed books. If it's cracked out, it's no longer a slabbed book.

 

Ultimately, I don't care. The census is screwed six ways from Sunday anyways. It and the Registry are nothing but sales tools for CGC.

 

The census only loses it's accuracy when the book is sent in for a reslab without the label. As long as the label is returned by the time the book is regraded, it's accurate as the book and label are a pair.

 

Saying anything can happen is no different than possibly getting the label lost in the mail when you try to return it to CGC.

[seanfingh]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Schroedinger's Cat? If the book has been put into the census at a grade, assuming no resubmit, what does it matter to the census if it were cracked? How does anyone know what happens to any of the books that are put into the census?

Once a book is removed from the slab any number of things can happen to it. The census is a representation of graded books in existence. Once it's cracked, it's no longer graded. It is a book that was once graded by CGC and therefore, should not be represented in the census.

 

It's just that the census is a representation of slabbed books. If it's cracked out, it's no longer a slabbed book.

 

Ultimately, I don't care. The census is screwed six ways from Sunday anyways. It and the Registry are nothing but sales tools for CGC.

 

The census only loses it's accuracy when the book is sent in for a reslab without the label. As long as the label is returned by the time the book is regraded, it's accurate as the book and label are a pair.

 

Saying anything can happen is no different than possibly getting the label lost in the mail when you try to return it to CGC.

 

Whenever possible, I like to disagree with both you and DW, but i think DWs position is more defensible. The main product that most consumers are purchasing from CGC is a certified grade, not a plastic slab. Once cracked out, the certified grade is null and void. So while the book still exists, and likely exists in the same exact grade as previously certified, the certified book, for census purposes, is gone. I would prefer if it were taken off the census, so i would know how many of the certified books are really out there. Pie in the sky, i know, but it would help if it were as accurate as it could be.

[VintageComics]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Schroedinger's Cat? If the book has been put into the census at a grade, assuming no resubmit, what does it matter to the census if it were cracked? How does anyone know what happens to any of the books that are put into the census?

Once a book is removed from the slab any number of things can happen to it. The census is a representation of graded books in existence. Once it's cracked, it's no longer graded. It is a book that was once graded by CGC and therefore, should not be represented in the census.

 

It's just that the census is a representation of slabbed books. If it's cracked out, it's no longer a slabbed book.

 

Ultimately, I don't care. The census is screwed six ways from Sunday anyways. It and the Registry are nothing but sales tools for CGC.

 

The census only loses it's accuracy when the book is sent in for a reslab without the label. As long as the label is returned by the time the book is regraded, it's accurate as the book and label are a pair.

 

Saying anything can happen is no different than possibly getting the label lost in the mail when you try to return it to CGC.

 

Whenever possible, I like to disagree with both you and DW, but i think DWs position is more defensible. The main product that most consumers are purchasing from CGC is a certified grade, not a plastic slab. Once cracked out, the certified grade is null and void. So while the book still exists, and likely exists in the same exact grade as previously certified, the certified book, for census purposes, is gone. I would prefer if it were taken off the census, so i would know how many of the certified books are really out there. Pie in the sky, i know, but it would help if it were as accurate as it could be.

 

I'll disagree, and I can understand how we can differ philosophically on this, but I don't have time to get into a long drawn out debate today.

 

Just a few thoughts.

 

For me, when I buy a book for my personal collection the plastic around it is incidental.

For CGC it's a method of guaranteeing the grade until the book finds an end user.

Once the end user is found and if the book is cracked, until the book is reslabbed, it's really a non issue because that book goes no where without the label.

As long as the label stays with the book, and it usually does when the book passes from collector to collector, my opinion is that it doesn't matter.

The census is only "wrong" if a book is regraded and the label is not mailed in.

I understand that in the purest sense the census is only supposed to represent books that are in slabs, but in this is not realistic, since comics were made for reading and many books do not stay in their slabs. Rather than looking at the census as the number of books sitting in plastic slabs I have always looked at it as the number of books that have been graded by CGC. As long as the book is traveling with the label it's really one and the same. In the pastic, out of the plastic, the two are together.

[Transplant]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Schroedinger's Cat? If the book has been put into the census at a grade, assuming no resubmit, what does it matter to the census if it were cracked? How does anyone know what happens to any of the books that are put into the census?

 

Actually, since you brought up Schroedinger's Cat, quantum mechanics dictates that until you crack the slab, the book in the census both exists and does not exist.

The census is the box and the slab is the cat. Once the book is in the census, it both exists in the slab and not in the slab

Ergo, the book is both pressed and unpressed.

[Comicsarefun]

I agree the census will be totally useless on high grade books within a few years, vastly overstating the amount of books out there.

 

If even 25% of the 9.4 have been pressed and half of those come back 9.6 and half stay at 9.4, then look what happens.

 

100 9.4's to start.

25 pressed and resent without old labels.

12 come back 9.6 and 13 come back 9.4 (very possible).

 

The census will now list 113 9.4's when actually there are only 88. And since pressing is not disclosed, this can happen over an over to the same books. In time, the 9.4 number for a book like Amazing Spider-Man #5, could be double the actual amount of copies in exisitence!

 

And don't get me started on cracked restored books that get submitted and cracked and submitted over and over by unsuspecting buyers. If a high grade silver key shows a bunch of restored 9.2's, it is probably just the same couple of books each sent in several times over the years.

 

 

[divad]

I disagree. The book is no longer slabbed and therefore has no business being listed in the census. The book that is represented in the census no longer exists.

Schroedinger's Cat? If the book has been put into the census at a grade, assuming no resubmit, what does it matter to the census if it were cracked? How does anyone know what happens to any of the books that are put into the census?

Once a book is removed from the slab any number of things can happen to it. The census is a representation of graded books in existence. Once it's cracked, it's no longer graded. It is a book that was once graded by CGC and therefore, should not be represented in the census.

 

It's just that the census is a representation of slabbed books. If it's cracked out, it's no longer a slabbed book.

 

Ultimately, I don't care. The census is screwed six ways from Sunday anyways. It and the Registry are nothing but sales tools for CGC.

 

The census only loses it's accuracy when the book is sent in for a reslab without the label. As long as the label is returned by the time the book is regraded, it's accurate as the book and label are a pair.

 

Saying anything can happen is no different than possibly getting the label lost in the mail when you try to return it to CGC.

 

Whenever possible, I like to disagree with both you and DW, but i think DWs position is more defensible. The main product that most consumers are purchasing from CGC is a certified grade, not a plastic slab. Once cracked out, the certified grade is null and void. So while the book still exists, and likely exists in the same exact grade as previously certified, the certified book, for census purposes, is gone. I would prefer if it were taken off the census, so i would know how many of the certified books are really out there. Pie in the sky, i know, but it would help if it were as accurate as it could be.

 

I'll disagree, and I can understand how we can differ philosophically on this, but I don't have time to get into a long drawn out debate today.

 

Just a few thoughts.

 

For me, when I buy a book for my personal collection the plastic around it is incidental.

For CGC it's a method of guaranteeing the grade until the book finds an end user.

Once the end user is found and if the book is cracked, until the book is reslabbed, it's really a non issue because that book goes no where without the label.

As long as the label stays with the book, and it usually does when the book passes from collector to collector, my opinion is that it doesn't matter.

The census is only "wrong" if a book is regraded and the label is not mailed in.

I understand that in the purest sense the census is only supposed to represent books that are in slabs, but in this is not realistic, since comics were made for reading and many books do not stay in their slabs. Rather than looking at the census as the number of books sitting in plastic slabs I have always looked at it as the number of books that have been graded by CGC. As long as the book is traveling with the label it's really one and the same. In the pastic, out of the plastic, the two are together.

 

ditto what he said . . .

[divad]

I agree the census will be totally useless on high grade books within a few years, vastly overstating the amount of books out there.

 

If even 25% of the 9.4 have been pressed and half of those come back 9.6 and half stay at 9.4, then look what happens.

 

100 9.4's to start.

25 pressed and resent without old labels.

12 come back 9.6 and 13 come back 9.4 (very possible).

 

The census will now list 113 9.4's when actually there are only 88. And since pressing is not disclosed, this can happen over an over to the same books. In time, the 9.4 number for a book like Amazing Spider-Man #5, could be double the actual amount of copies in exisitence!

 

And don't get me started on cracked restored books that get submitted and cracked and submitted over and over by unsuspecting buyers. If a high grade silver key shows a bunch of restored 9.2's, it is probably just the same couple of books each sent in several times over the years.

 

 

Agreed . . . the shame of it all.

[etanick]

agreed and I hope that most people are smart enough to understand the simple concept of supplies and demands so having a "bloated" census won't yield higher profit and likely keep prices artificially depressed. Heck, books are priced based on scarcity.....blah blah blah...I am preaching to the choir here...my apology.

 

I do think that most people that send the slabs to the "pros" for pressing and resubmit are not the one to blame since the pressers will send the old label to CGC also...at least I hope I am right

 

I think the culprits that are more likely to pollute the census is Robojo and sellers like him. I am guessing he buys mid grade slabs when he can, cracked them and tossed everything to list on Ebay as 9.0 to 9.6 raw books. Even he should understand that his ultimate selling price is also hurt by his tossing...assuming my hunch is right. My suggestion of an amnesty program in my prior post is more directed to this kind of crackers....not that is useful since others have pointed out that CGC don't keep track so the amnesty program is already in existence so it is just pure stupidity on his part if he is tossing the labels.