Collecting high grade SA Marvels is making less and less sense to me

[COI]

Dam Andrew we could have playing this whole time.

 

I'll go buy it again, but since you're just going to kick my arse, you have to get Street Fighter IV so that I can kick yours in return. It's only fair.

 

My Cammy is deadly.

[Bronty]

hey don't forget about me. Sounds like I will get my kicked by you hardcore boys but as soon as my ps3 is online, you're in for a challenge or two

[Ghost Town]

- What's the point of paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for a 9.4/9.6 copy of a non-key that isn't the "best", or rare, when you can get a perfectly presentable copy for a fraction of that cost?

 

- What's the point in having a 9.6 ASM 100, if your copy of ASM 1 is a 6.5? Neither are unique. And you could take all that money you save on 9.4/9.6 non-keys, and put that towards getting as nice of a copy of the mega-key as possible.

 

- What's the point of depriving yourself of the pleasure of owning a copy of a book you've wanted for years, simply because you've fooled yourself into believing that only a copy in X.X or above will do?

Maybe it's just a matter of separating your enjoyment of the books from the value of books.

 

I know you like high grade stuff. Like me, you probably just think they look better and enjoy them more. But like a few others have mentioned, you could put together a killer run of ASMs over #50 in 9.0-9.2 without paying nosebleed prices. Even 9.4s are reasonably priced for certain books in the run.

 

For earlier stuff, you could go with very presentable 6.0s-8.0s. I know the keys and early issues would still get pricey, but you could take your time and prices seem to be coming down for those books.

 

It would still be plenty of fun to put the run together and it would still be pretty impressive to see.

 

I know there's some appeal in having the best copies of books. But as long as you enjoy the books and the pursuit, isn't that what collecting is ultimately about?

 

[joe_collector]

4) I don't have a collection to build on. What I mean is, I wasn't around, buying high grade for pennies on the dollar in the '80s and '90s, so I have nothing to add to, or to use to subsidize new purchases. I remember that Ghost Town once remarked that if he had to start all over again, there's no way he'd have anything close to what he has now, and would probably narrow his focus to the Bronze age.

 

That's why I cannot fathom how people can just suddenly start collecting HG comics in 2009, since "getting in on the ground floor" is most of the fun and usually what hooks most people.

 

If I had to start over today with nothing, I wouldn't even start.

 

On the other side of things, I've found myself collecting a few Limited/Collector Editions of XBOX 360 and PS3 games lately, on clearance. I picked up Turning Point CE for 96-cents, MK vs. DC KE for 98-cents, Madden NFL 09 CE for $19, Devil May Cry 4 CE for $10, Prince of Persia CE for $14, Soul Caliber 4 CE for $14, GOW2 LE for $29, and a few others.

 

Very fun hobby and real cheap if you hit the clearance aisle at Blockbuster, Best Buy and The Source.

[drdonaldblake]

buy what you like!

 

i have bouhgt and resold @ good to great profits 9.4 to 9.6 stuff (some i wish i had held onto longer) to fund my collecting focus

 

all the marvel #1 's in sold midgrade with great eye appeal

 

different strokes for different folks!

[joe_collector]

Maybe it's just a matter of separating your enjoyment of the books from the value of books.

 

But that's the whole point, that virtually any popular comic book has spiked to unheard of price levels, making it an insane proposition to "start from scratch".

 

I know what these books (in all grades) were selling for in the 80's and 90's, and that's why I would not even start if I suddenly walked into the hobby circa 2009 with not a book in my collection.

 

After all, if I wasn't collecting through my life, why (other than herd-like tendencies) why would I suddenly pick it up now, at the very apex of speculative pricing?

 

Oh boy, looks like comics are priced at unheard of, nosebleed levels - sounds like a great time to start buying!!

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Maybe it's just a matter of separating your enjoyment of the books from the value of books.

 

But that's the whole point, that virtually any popular comic book has spiked to unheard of price levels, making it an insane proposition to "start from scratch".

 

I know what these books (in all grades) were selling for in the 80's and 90's, and that's why I would not even start if I suddenly walked into the hobby circa 2009 with not a book in my collection.

 

After all, if I wasn't collecting through my life, why (other than herd-like tendencies) why would I suddenly pick it up now, at the very apex of speculative pricing?

 

Oh boy, looks like comics are priced at unheard of, nosebleed levels - sounds like a great time to start buying!!

 

People come and go out of the hobby all the time. How many 30 or 40-somethings have come onto the Boards after a 10-20 year lay-off only to get "the bug" again and start buying like crazy?

 

But you're right, trying to build a high grade collection from scratch isn't easy anymore....but I would say its a lot easier today then it was a year, or even two ago. The current market is FULL of great deals...with GPA lows being set left and right on what would even be considered prime Silver Age material. Just gotta know where to look, and what to buy....

 

Does that mean that prices won't go down even further? No, I think we still have some eye popping prices on the downside ahead....hold on for the ride, kids, because this wild roller coaster is still very much in motion.

[VintageComics]

Maybe it's just a matter of separating your enjoyment of the books from the value of books.

 

But that's the whole point, that virtually any popular comic book has spiked to unheard of price levels, making it an insane proposition to "start from scratch".

 

I know what these books (in all grades) were selling for in the 80's and 90's, and that's why I would not even start if I suddenly walked into the hobby circa 2009 with not a book in my collection.

 

After all, if I wasn't collecting through my life, why (other than herd-like tendencies) why would I suddenly pick it up now, at the very apex of speculative pricing?

 

Oh boy, looks like comics are priced at unheard of, nosebleed levels - sounds like a great time to start buying!!

 

I think what Ghost Town was saying (at least the way I understand it) was that the ownership of expensive books has become a collecting genre unto itself. Instead of owning books for their value, why not own them for storyline, eye appeal or for the thrill of the chase (which would have to come from criteria that you set for yourself and stick to).

 

Criteria can be price range, eye appeal, grade range, whatever.

[VintageComics]

 

In that sense, I admire the approach that many GA collectors take to collecting. Because so many GA books are unavailable or unattainable in certain grades, I've noticed that the emphasis is on owning a copy - any copy - of a desired book.

 

In the context of collecting SA Marvels, finding a copy is obviously not a challenge. But IMO, buying 9.4s and 9.6s, for the average collector, is an artificial challenge in the sense that it's usually about creating a financial barrier in the absence of scarcity. More that that, I think it's about satisfying the need for instant gratification; getting a book that is "high status" or "praise-worthy" (high number on the label) many times a year, instead of holding out and getting one "praise worthy" book every couple of years.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I wanted to touch on something.

 

Many "collectors" that I have seen post about the subject lately have talked about the thrill of the chase and how disappointed they are that some genres they collect are not rare enough.

 

If you are only interested in buying rare books doesn't that make you a gatherer and not a collector?

 

I think that if you collect what you like, you'll be content once you've acquired it as well as enjoying the chase. That's because you will have collected the book for the reason that you want to enjoy it, not because you're comparing it to someone else's copy.

 

I collect things that remind me of my childhood and also collect things that remind me of bygone eras that were around before my childhood. I love nostalgia and American culture.

 

Once I get a book I've wanted for a while, I enjoy it. I crack it out of it's holder, smell it, read it, enjoy the advertisements, the back cover art, etc. Everything. It does what it's supposed to do. It reminds me of the Golden Age or the Silver Age or the Bronze Age.

 

I try very hard not to get caught up in the "oh, he has one better than me" mentality because there is always someone or something better, and with the criteria that I set for myself (mid grade, unrestored, high eye appeal OR high grade, very slight resto) my books generally look just as good for a fraction of the price.

 

5.0, 7.5 and 9.2 depending on the books can be killer grade ranges because those grades can have books where they have high grade eye appeal at low grade price.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[slym2none]

Collect what you like, who cares how rare it is or isn't? I like Uncanny X-Men, there are zillions of them out there, and all but the early SA stuff is "rare,"

 

I don't care... one day, I hope to have a copy of each and every one of them. Why? I don't know, except that I love them.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[rodan57]

Collecting comics, at all, is making less and less sense to me. I still like the odd 50s book that doesn't break the bank, or semi-obscure early 60s DC genre titles, but for the most part the hobby has lost a lot of its lustre.

 

I just came across a podcast site that I find good listening fun when it comes to enjoying comics for "what they are". There are almost 120 podcasts stacked up and I have been sampling them over the past few days. They even inspired me to pickup a couple of bargain bin Metal Men and Lois Lane from the 60s (and I'm a Marvel collector through and through).

 

The Comic Book Attic

 

[tth2]

Maybe it's just a matter of separating your enjoyment of the books from the value of books.

 

But that's the whole point, that virtually any popular comic book has spiked to unheard of price levels, making it an insane proposition to "start from scratch".

This is pretty hilarious. I seem to remember a few board members back in 2003, and 2004, and 2005, etc., saying with great conviction that comic books would have crashed by the far future date of 2009. And yet here it is at the end of 2009 and, surprise surprise, those comics have continued to move on to "unheard of price levels"!

 

Oh boy, looks like comics are priced at unheard of, nosebleed levels - sounds like a great time to start buying!!

If you had followed this philosophy 5-6 years ago when you were complaining at that time about comics being priced at unheard of, nosebleed levels, you would done very well. So why would anyone think that you were correct now, when you`ve been wrong all these years?

[joe_collector]

This is pretty hilarious. I seem to remember a few board members back in 2003, and 2004, and 2005, etc., saying with great conviction that comic books would have crashed by the far future date of 2009.

 

Ummm... have you not been keeping track of sales lately? All-time lows have been hit on many previously-popular books and I have been commended by a few board members for NOT harping on about how *I told you so* in regards to rampant speculation.

 

My comments on "unheard of prices" refer to what they were priced at pre-CGC, in the 80's and 90's, which should have been obvious from my post.

[tth2]

Ri-i-i-ght.

[joe_collector]

Ri-i-i-ght.

 

Here's the part you oh-so mysteriously CUT out of my original quote:

 

I know what these books (in all grades) were selling for in the 80's and 90's, and that's why I would not even start if I suddenly walked into the hobby circa 2009 with not a book in my collection.

 

And as for the other part, here's a PM I received (posted with anonymity unless he wants to come forward):

 

I'm proud of you for not "gloating" online now that the crash has obviously been going on for about a year now amidst (and overshadowed somewhat) by high end, rare item market surges. The crash has just transpired in an incremental and selective process thus far, likely atypical when compared to other corrections? But 35-60%+ drops in post 70's stuff are not to be ignored. The patterns are clear enough to see to me anyway and to further predict with accuracy.

[etanick]

All-time lows have been hit on many previously-popular books and I have been commended by a few board members for NOT harping on about how *I told you so* in regards to rampant speculation.

 

My comments on "unheard of prices" refer to what they were priced at pre-CGC, in the 80's and 90's, which should have been obvious from my post.

 

it is multi years low, not all time unless you want to go back to when the books came out for 12 cents.

 

I do agree that for those who think a "correction" hasn't started, they will be in a rude awakening. I can't wait to hear the and moan in Jan CL and then the Feb CL auctions about the lower prices. There are a very few selected books in certain high and ultra high grades that will do well but for the rest, I will let it comes down to my comfort level.

 

 

[joe_collector]

Obviously we're talking about the "CGC Market" so how can you go back to the point where CGC didn't exist?

 

And the last thing I want to do is turn this into a "Crash Thread" as the market seems to be tanking quite well without any help.

[tth2]

My point is that you said that prices of CGC`d books in 2003 and 2004 were crazy high compared to prices in the 80s and 90s, so you warned everyone against buying at that time at those crazy high prices because the great crash was lurking around the corner. 6 years later you`re still saying that books are too high, which obviously means that the prices haven`t crashed. In fact, many have appreciated significantly.

 

The fact is that you were dead wrong. I`d just like to see you admit it.

 

[Shootydog]

Its a good thing Im not a top tier collector. I stick to the cheaper stuff...It is still fun and I dont get frustrated trying to collect stuff out of my price range.

 

My collection is all raw and consists of.....

 

Complete run of Doctor Strange v1 and 2

Complete Alan Moore Swamp Thing v 2 run.

Complete run of Warlord v1

Almost complete run of All Star Western and Weird Western Tales (Jonah Hex issues only).

Almost complete runs of Werewolf by Night and Tomb of Dracula

Anything done by Mike Grell that I run across.

 

Being a Grell collector keeps my spending relatively low and I can afford my hobby by sticking to favorite characters that arent Marvel or DC Superheroes. The cost to do so is prohibitive to new collectors.

 

 

[Shootydog]

Obviously we're talking about the "CGC Market" so how can you go back to the point where CGC didn't exist?

 

And the last thing I want to do is turn this into a "Crash Thread" as the market seems to be tanking quite well without any help.

 

I know Joe has professed this over and over again in the past but I am beginning to also see signs of an unhealthy market. The way things are going I can't see any increase in the number of collectors. What I do see is an increase in investing across an increasingly smaller number of said investors.

 

I also see the low grade collector and the high grade collector being separated from an ever increasing chasm. They have grown apart and are no longer part of the same "collecting community" but separate into their own cliques.

 

As I have said before.....Comic collecting will further consolidate until it becomes the domain of the rich who collect only the best copies, shunning the rest. No new blood will be introduced and it will become like a high end Art market. Exclusivity will reign.