How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[Mr. Zipper]

Unfortunately this has put the group in a[nother] no-win situation.

 

If the group accepts Brent's venture, it loses the respect of people who apparently had some measure of respect previously.

 

If the group takes some sort of action against Brent, then it's proven the assertions of some of its critics -- it's a bunch of intolerant anti-pressers whose only goal is to smite pressing from the face of the Earth.

 

 

Let it go dude. You'll feel better.

 

[blazingbob]

Gene, Somehow I believe the same can be said of your business.

 

With so many stocks coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to buy some of these stocks. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the stock has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I'm sure even stocks with financial defects that can't be sold are regularly thrown into the market with the off-chance that the stock just gains a more flattering appearance post-IPO-fluffing.

 

I still don't understand how a stock that has achieved its high moody's rating (How can a company be neutral rating debt when they make money from doing business with them?) through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a stock that was actually makes money and was studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Citigroup has been pressed and squeezed. I mean, how absurd is it that Citigroup was once a money making empire before Sandy Weill bought it up and turned it into a Financial Supermarket. Imagine some greedy snot like Ivan Boesky buying and selling on insider information and the Chairman of Enron manipulating their financial books for profit. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what investing in the stock market should be like.

 

And we all know that ponzi schemes (apparently the rich history and lore behind investing honestly wasn't enough for some people), they had to cook the hell out of their books by promising ridiculous rates of return (done to impress the hell out of those dumb investors) in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the bus for their own financial gain.

 

The banking/investment banking business truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

 

 

[Mr.Diggler]

...I buy the books that make me happy and comics are back to a hobby that I can enjoy, rather than a contest I could never win...

Amen to that, brother.

 

The comic hobby is a lot like sex. If you aren't enjoying it, you're doing something wrong.

(thumbs u (thumbs u

[arexcrooke]

Fine, I'll buy every pressed POS 9.X the obliterated market has to offer. If someone wants to press all of the Pedigree copies out there, I'll take those worthless rags also.

And at a discount? DAMN RIGHT

[delekkerste]

Nice try, Bob. But, first, that isn't "my business". I'm an investor who suffers like everybody else when all the banks, companies, ratings agencies, etc. who are supposed to be helping me, their customer, fail to do their jobs or abuse their positions.

 

Second of all, all of those activities you mentioned ARE, indeed, deplorable. That's why Bernie Madoff, Bernie Ebbers, Jeff Skilling, etc. are in JAIL. That's why Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken did HARD TIME. That's why Sandy Weill got booted from Citigroup and is OUT OF A JOB. That's why all those Wall Street banks paid millions (billions?) of dollars of fines for their blatant conflicts of interest in the late 1990s and early 2000s. That's why all these bank execs keep getting dragged up to Capitol Hill to testify about their business activities leading up to the financial meltdown of 2008. They all got what they deserved in the end.

 

Anyway, it's all just classic misdirection yet again. Just because there are some bad apples in the financial world and other industries doesn't justify the lot of you steamrolling every book in your path and laying waste to the historical integrity of comics. Nobody has yet responded to my question of how can a book that has been artificially manipulated to a higher grade can be considered the equal to a book that was cherry picked off the stands and meticulously preserved for decades by its owner(s).

 

I still own hundreds of slabs, though I have sold off a good chunk of my modest collection. I still own many thousands of raw books. As some of you know, I am very active in the original art side of the hobby. And, I continue to buy loads of TPBs, hardcovers and digital comics every month and was continuing to actively buy raw books up until just a year or two ago. I attend conventions, hang out regularly with many Board members and participate almost daily on these Boards. I just no longer buy slabbed high grade - that part of the hobby is forever dead to me now.

 

It doesn't matter if this house of cards eventually comes tumbling down - the damage has been done. It was never enough to "just disclose". Manipulating books has a permanent effect on the rest of collectors and every collector that follows down the line. I wonder if the future Brulatos and Schmells of the world will feel as favorably about pressing as their predecessors. Indeed, after this crack-press-resub game eventually and inevitably implodes upon itself, why would future generations of collectors, with no seat on the current gravy train, even think that it was ever a good idea to pancake all those books that were already beautiful and well-preserved.

 

I'm sure this post will be just as derided by many as my last one. But, judging from the e-mails, PMs and conversations I have with many collectors, both here on the Boards and those who are not, I know that I am far from alone in my feelings about this matter.

[pickycollector]

Nice try, Bob. But, first, that isn't "my business". I'm an investor who suffers like everybody else when all the banks, companies, ratings agencies, etc. who are supposed to be helping me, their customer, fail to do their jobs or abuse their positions.

 

Second of all, all of those activities you mentioned ARE, indeed, deplorable. That's why Bernie Madoff, Bernie Ebbers, Jeff Skilling, etc. are in JAIL. That's why Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken did HARD TIME. That's why Sandy Weill got booted from Citigroup and is OUT OF A JOB. That's why all those Wall Street banks paid millions (billions?) of dollars of fines for their blatant conflicts of interest in the late 1990s and early 2000s. That's why all these bank execs keep getting dragged up to Capitol Hill to testify about their business activities leading up to the financial meltdown of 2008. They all got what they deserved in the end.

 

Anyway, it's all just classic misdirection yet again. Just because there are some bad apples in the financial world and other industries doesn't justify the lot of you steamrolling every book in your path and laying waste to the historical integrity of comics. Nobody has yet responded to my question of how can a book that has been artificially manipulated to a higher grade can be considered the equal to a book that was cherry picked off the stands and meticulously preserved for decades by its owner(s).

 

I still own hundreds of slabs, though I have sold off a good chunk of my modest collection. I still own many thousands of raw books. As some of you know, I am very active in the original art side of the hobby. And, I continue to buy loads of TPBs, hardcovers and digital comics every month and was continuing to actively buy raw books up until just a year or two ago. I attend conventions, hang out regularly with many Board members and participate almost daily on these Boards. I just no longer buy slabbed high grade - that part of the hobby is forever dead to me now.

 

It doesn't matter if this house of cards eventually comes tumbling down - the damage has been done. It was never enough to "just disclose". Manipulating books has a permanent effect on the rest of collectors and every collector that follows down the line. I wonder if the future Brulatos and Schmells of the world will feel as favorably about pressing as their predecessors. Indeed, after this crack-press-resub game eventually and inevitably implodes upon itself, why would future generations of collectors, with no seat on the current gravy train, even think that it was ever a good idea to pancake all those books that were already beautiful and well-preserved.

 

I'm sure this post will be just as derided by many as my last one. But, judging from the e-mails, PMs and conversations I have with many collectors, both here on the Boards and those who are not, I know that I am far from alone in my feelings about this matter.

 

+1 (thumbs u

[Theagenes]

So.....is Brent still in NOD?

 

Joey,

As far as I know he is still a member and still Chairman. He has broken no rules so I don't understand why anyone thinks there should be any action against him for this. I know Gary, Brad and maybe some others have strong feelings about this and I respect their opinions, but NOD is not an anti-pressing organization today, regardless of the intentions of its founders four or five years ago or what some anti-pressers who aren't even members might want it to be or what some some pro-presser try to label it as. Members have a variety of opinions on the matter, just like the boardies here.

 

If the point you are trying to make is that it is hypocritical to ignore what Brent is doing considering how you were treated, then in my personal opinion I would agree with that. I was opposed to what happened with you. I did not support the rule change at the time. It was, again imo, hastily crafted and clumbsily thrown together to single out an individual. Changing the rules in midstream like that was completely unfair, and that rule in any case simply made very little sense. I felt strongly that it was just plain wrong and I almost didn't renew my membership that fall (instead I went the opposite way and upped it to the full tier so that my vote would have more weight in future ballots).

 

I have been very vocal in my opposition to this rule over the past year since I've been a officer. I know that some members of NOD disagree with my position and others agree, but for what it's worth that is my take on it. To censure Brent for this would simply be to repeat the same injustice that was done to you.

[Mr. Zipper]

So.....is Brent still in NOD?

 

Joey,

As far as I know he is still a member and still Chairman. He has broken no rules so I don't understand why anyone thinks there should be any action against him for this. I know Gary, Brad and maybe some others have strong feelings about this and I respect their opinions, but NOD is not an anti-pressing organization today, regardless of the intentions of its founders four or five years ago or what some anti-pressers who aren't even members might want it to be or what some some pro-presser try to label it as. Members have a variety of opinions on the matter, just like the boardies here.

 

If the point you are trying to make is that it is hypocritical to ignore what Brent is doing considering how you were treated, then in my personal opinion I would agree with that. I was opposed to what happened with you. I did not support the rule change at the time. It was, again imo, hastily crafted and clumbsily thrown together to single out an individual. Changing the rules in midstream like that was completely unfair, and that rule in any case simply made very little sense. I felt strongly that it was just plain wrong and I almost didn't renew my membership that fall (instead I went the opposite way and upped it to the full tier so that my vote would have more weight in future ballots).

 

I have been very vocal in my opposition to this rule over the past year since I've been a officer. I know that some members of NOD disagree with my position and others agree, but for what it's worth that is my take on it. To censure Brent for this would simply be to repeat the same injustice that was done to you.

 

[skypinkblu]

Nice try, Bob. But, first, that isn't "my business". I'm an investor who suffers like everybody else when all the banks, companies, ratings agencies, etc. who are supposed to be helping me, their customer, fail to do their jobs or abuse their positions.

 

Second of all, all of those activities you mentioned ARE, indeed, deplorable. That's why Bernie Madoff, Bernie Ebbers, Jeff Skilling, etc. are in JAIL. That's why Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken did HARD TIME. That's why Sandy Weill got booted from Citigroup and is OUT OF A JOB. That's why all those Wall Street banks paid millions (billions?) of dollars of fines for their blatant conflicts of interest in the late 1990s and early 2000s. That's why all these bank execs keep getting dragged up to Capitol Hill to testify about their business activities leading up to the financial meltdown of 2008. They all got what they deserved in the end.

 

Anyway, it's all just classic misdirection yet again. Just because there are some bad apples in the financial world and other industries doesn't justify the lot of you steamrolling every book in your path and laying waste to the historical integrity of comics. Nobody has yet responded to my question of how can a book that has been artificially manipulated to a higher grade can be considered the equal to a book that was cherry picked off the stands and meticulously preserved for decades by its owner(s).

 

I still own hundreds of slabs, though I have sold off a good chunk of my modest collection. I still own many thousands of raw books. As some of you know, I am very active in the original art side of the hobby. And, I continue to buy loads of TPBs, hardcovers and digital comics every month and was continuing to actively buy raw books up until just a year or two ago. I attend conventions, hang out regularly with many Board members and participate almost daily on these Boards. I just no longer buy slabbed high grade - that part of the hobby is forever dead to me now.

 

It doesn't matter if this house of cards eventually comes tumbling down - the damage has been done. It was never enough to "just disclose". Manipulating books has a permanent effect on the rest of collectors and every collector that follows down the line. I wonder if the future Brulatos and Schmells of the world will feel as favorably about pressing as their predecessors. Indeed, after this crack-press-resub game eventually and inevitably implodes upon itself, why would future generations of collectors, with no seat on the current gravy train, even think that it was ever a good idea to pancake all those books that were already beautiful and well-preserved.

 

I'm sure this post will be just as derided by many as my last one. But, judging from the e-mails, PMs and conversations I have with many collectors, both here on the Boards and those who are not, I know that I am far from alone in my feelings about this matter.

 

+1 (thumbs u

 

The historical part bothers me the most. Although I'm not much of a pedigree collector, I do own a few, and I enjoy the history.

 

I wonder if perhaps some of the people with pressing businesses on this board or people who just own presses, would think about refusing to press known pedigrees? I know sometimes they are removed from slabs before you see them, but sometimes they are not.

 

There is simply no way everyone will agree, but perhaps we could come to some kind of compromise? At least consider a compromise.

I know there is no way to ensure it doesn't happen, but perhaps a few books would be preserved.

 

I own only 1 Mile High Wonder Woman, and it's got color touch. Makes no sense to me :shrug:

 

 

[500Club]

Should I include your posts in those we shouldn't regard with sincerity?

By all means, counselor.

 

Dude is, from my reading of his posts over the past few years, brilliant.

 

I tend to like to believe that he is, to some measured degree, winking at us a tad, challenging us in good faith a whole bunch, and might have us all snowed just enough to satisfy his intellectual need to emote on a message board about a topic of passion for him.

 

Never realized there were so many levels of meaning to his participation here.

 

I just figured he was a guy that had his books pressed, spouted cornpone witticisms, and whose social life revolves around PMs and forum dinners.

 

Perhaps it's a to-may-to / to-mah-to thing.

 

 

I wasn't talking about Watson. He is a dummy.

 

 

Made me laugh.

 

But, make no bones about it, Watson is brilliant. Despite the fact he often hides his insight within a veil of sarcasm, there is invariably an underlying depth to his comments. He will challenge you and make you consider your views. (thumbs u

[Mr.Diggler]

 

But, make no bones about it, Watson is brilliant. Despite the fact he often hides his insight within a veil of sarcasm, there is invariably an underlying depth to his comments. He will challenge you and make you consider your views. (thumbs u

(thumbs u

[DarkKnightReturns]

Unfortunately this has put the group in a[nother] no-win situation.

 

If the group accepts Brent's venture, it loses the respect of people who apparently had some measure of respect previously.

 

If the group takes some sort of action against Brent, then it's proven the assertions of some of its critics -- it's a bunch of intolerant anti-pressers whose only goal is to smite pressing from the face of the Earth.

 

 

Let it go dude. You'll feel better.

 

 

No doubt eh.

 

I don't understand the desire some of you have to see a group that seeks proactive disclosure to fail.

 

Whats in it for you ? Whats your agenda ? Why the bitterness ?

[joeypost]

So.....is Brent still in NOD?

 

Joey,

As far as I know he is still a member and still Chairman. He has broken no rules so I don't understand why anyone thinks there should be any action against him for this. I know Gary, Brad and maybe some others have strong feelings about this and I respect their opinions, but NOD is not an anti-pressing organization today, regardless of the intentions of its founders four or five years ago or what some anti-pressers who aren't even members might want it to be or what some some pro-presser try to label it as. Members have a variety of opinions on the matter, just like the boardies here.

 

If the point you are trying to make is that it is hypocritical to ignore what Brent is doing considering how you were treated, then in my personal opinion I would agree with that. I was opposed to what happened with you. I did not support the rule change at the time. It was, again imo, hastily crafted and clumbsily thrown together to single out an individual. Changing the rules in midstream like that was completely unfair, and that rule in any case simply made very little sense. I felt strongly that it was just plain wrong and I almost didn't renew my membership that fall (instead I went the opposite way and upped it to the full tier so that my vote would have more weight in future ballots).

 

I have been very vocal in my opposition to this rule over the past year since I've been a officer. I know that some members of NOD disagree with my position and others agree, but for what it's worth that is my take on it. To censure Brent for this would simply be to repeat the same injustice that was done to you.

 

Jeff,

 

Personally I really have no issues with most of the NOD members. Many of them I communicate with via PM on a regular basis, but as an organization you guys make me scratch my head. While Brent may not be doing anything wrong you (NOD as an organization) have on paper, it is a hypocritical at best especially after the way some of it's members have been treated in the past.

[joeypost]

Unfortunately this has put the group in a[nother] no-win situation.

 

If the group accepts Brent's venture, it loses the respect of people who apparently had some measure of respect previously.

 

If the group takes some sort of action against Brent, then it's proven the assertions of some of its critics -- it's a bunch of intolerant anti-pressers whose only goal is to smite pressing from the face of the Earth.

 

 

Let it go dude. You'll feel better.

 

 

No doubt eh.

 

I don't understand the desire some of you have to see a group that seeks proactive disclosure to fail.

 

Whats in it for you ? Whats your agenda ? Why the bitterness ?

 

Not even close. Most of those that are most vocal agains THE WAY THE NOD is being run is by ex members. Even Nik, who was the salt of the earth was vocal about the BS that runs thick in the hallowed halls of the NOD.

[AGGIEZ]

The best rates in the business are also given by the same person that is the best presser in the business, they are $10.00 (and less) a book regardless of the era

 

Name & email address, please?

 

Did we get an answer here? I really don't want to sift through 15 pages of drivel but would like to know the answer here...

[DrWatson]

The historical part bothers me the most. Although I'm not much of a pedigree collector, I do own a few, and I enjoy the history.

 

I wonder if perhaps some of the people with pressing businesses on this board or people who just own presses, would think about refusing to press known pedigrees? I know sometimes they are removed from slabs before you see them, but sometimes they are not.

 

There is simply no way everyone will agree, but perhaps we could come to some kind of compromise? At least consider a compromise.

I know there is no way to ensure it doesn't happen, but perhaps a few books would be preserved.

 

I own only 1 Mile High Wonder Woman, and it's got color touch. Makes no sense to me :shrug:

 

I have pressed pedigree books. I have one right now that needs pressing. I don't know what happened throughout its life, but something gave it some wicked back cover creases. I can't believe the original owner purchased it like that or intended for it to be the way it is today.

 

In my opinion pedigrees are some of the most likely candidates for pressing as they typically exhibit only minor defects that can be greatly improved by a trip through the press. What I do not advocate is the willful disregard of the pedigree upon resubmission. That is nothing short of douchbaggery.

 

That being said, I am sometimes at loss as to the reverence which is bestowed onto a pedigree collection. People talk about about how the owner meticulously picked through the books on the rack only buying the choicest copies. Well, you know what, I did that too when I was a kid. They only difference was my OCD wasn't so evolved that I packed the books away like food for a nuclear winter.

 

I don't doubt that most owners of pedigree collections would have taken advantage of the pressing service if it had been available to them like it is to us today. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the history and the folklore associated with the books, but it stops there.

[DrWatson]

But, make no bones about it, Watson is brilliant. Despite the fact he often hides his insight within a veil of sarcasm, there is invariably an underlying depth to his comments. He will challenge you and make you consider your views. (thumbs u

[DarkKnightReturns]

Unfortunately this has put the group in a[nother] no-win situation.

 

If the group accepts Brent's venture, it loses the respect of people who apparently had some measure of respect previously.

 

If the group takes some sort of action against Brent, then it's proven the assertions of some of its critics -- it's a bunch of intolerant anti-pressers whose only goal is to smite pressing from the face of the Earth.

 

 

Let it go dude. You'll feel better.

 

 

No doubt eh.

 

I don't understand the desire some of you have to see a group that seeks proactive disclosure to fail.

 

Whats in it for you ? Whats your agenda ? Why the bitterness ?

 

Not even close. Most of those that are most vocal agains THE WAY THE NOD is being run is by ex members. Even Nik, who was the salt of the earth was vocal about the BS that runs thick in the hallowed halls of the NOD.

 

Please explain the BS

[arexcrooke]

Unfortunately this has put the group in a[nother] no-win situation.

 

If the group accepts Brent's venture, it loses the respect of people who apparently had some measure of respect previously.

 

If the group takes some sort of action against Brent, then it's proven the assertions of some of its critics -- it's a bunch of intolerant anti-pressers whose only goal is to smite pressing from the face of the Earth.

 

 

Let it go dude. You'll feel better.

 

 

No doubt eh.

 

I don't understand the desire some of you have to see a group that seeks proactive disclosure to fail.

 

Whats in it for you ? Whats your agenda ? Why the bitterness ?

Ok, so maybe it isnt the group especially seeing as how I was actually in the group at one time

Perhaps it is just my loating of several of the members there with specific mention to Zaid.

 

And please, before you lump me into the "group that wants that doesnt want disclosure to happen", ask around and then tell me what my position is on disclosure

[arexcrooke]

The best rates in the business are also given by the same person that is the best presser in the business, they are $10.00 (and less) a book regardless of the era

 

Name & email address, please?

 

Did we get an answer here? I really don't want to sift through 15 pages of drivel but would like to know the answer here...

It is Joeypost that is being referred to and being referred by other posters.

btw, doesnt refer look a lot like reefer?