How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[FlyingDonut]

 

 

If you want me to feel bad for those people, your talking to the wrong guy.

 

Common, common, common books.

 

My definition of a market crash is where the book is worth basically a couple bucks in those grades.

 

Like I said before most of those premiums were bought by collectors who thought they were rare and were probably the first in line to buy them.

 

NEVER EVEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR BE THE FIRST to buy a new 9.8 CGC.

 

Wait on the sidelines and react to the market and make a smart buying decision accordingly after the fact.

 

I agree, don't get me wrong. You and I look at it from an entirely different perspective than "the average slab collector", no doubt...

 

But...just like coins, where "the first ones" caused a feeding fenzy, and MS65 common Morgans were selling for $3K...only to plummet

to $150 within two years over 1990-91...the market for post 1975 uber high grade has crashed, and crashed hard.

 

Remember, nothing operates in a vacuum, and the people who get burned buying a Bats #428 for $1K in 2008 may never come back at all. And that's not good for any of us.

 

True, but were they ever really "here"? Were these people collectors, or merely speculators looking for a quick flip?

 

I honestly don't know the answer, but I would tend to think the latter.

[DarkKnightReturns]

I collect sweet looking Silver/early Bronze books in the 9.0-9.4 range. No real keys, no real expensive items and certainly no 'top census' copies. However, I love books in that grade because they pretty much look like they did when I was actually buying them from the spinner racks back when I was a kid. It's a nostalgia thing, sure, but it's also a sense of wonder that, whilst I have become more and more ed as the years have gone by, these little beauties haven't! They've survived 40 years in the same condition without any assistance.

 

That's why I dislike pressing...and it has absolutely zero to do with money or status or some twisted geek sense of self-worth.

 

Nicely put, Nick.

 

Well Nick, I can't disagree with most of what you wrote here. In fact, I agree with all but the last part since Pressing a nice 8.5 into a nicer 9.2 doesn't turn me off to it. What I can't fathom are the folks who shun that sweet looking 9.2 and treat it like a red-headed step child just because it got the 'treatment'.

 

I can understand not wanting to pay a premium for it if you feel it was "artificially manipulated", but would you still be willing to pay an 8.5 type price for it, or does it just belong in a dollar box along with the other drek?

 

Price seriously wouldn't matter, George. The huge attraction for me is that it's got here in this state all on its own. It amazes me and excites me.

 

How sad is that?

 

+1 I don't think you're alone here FT. I'm not into the manipulated books. I'd take a 9 - 9.4 over a pressed 9.8 anyday regardless of price.

 

If someone let me pick for free either a 9.4 worth $100 or a pressed 9.8 worth $800 I would take the 9.4 every time. (picking the 9.8 and selling wasn't an option )

[Flaming_Telepath]

I collect sweet looking Silver/early Bronze books in the 9.0-9.4 range. No real keys, no real expensive items and certainly no 'top census' copies. However, I love books in that grade because they pretty much look like they did when I was actually buying them from the spinner racks back when I was a kid. It's a nostalgia thing, sure, but it's also a sense of wonder that, whilst I have become more and more ed as the years have gone by, these little beauties haven't! They've survived 40 years in the same condition without any assistance.

 

That's why I dislike pressing...and it has absolutely zero to do with money or status or some twisted geek sense of self-worth.

 

Nicely put, Nick.

 

Well Nick, I can't disagree with most of what you wrote here. In fact, I agree with all but the last part since Pressing a nice 8.5 into a nicer 9.2 doesn't turn me off to it. What I can't fathom are the folks who shun that sweet looking 9.2 and treat it like a red-headed step child just because it got the 'treatment'.

 

I can understand not wanting to pay a premium for it if you feel it was "artificially manipulated", but would you still be willing to pay an 8.5 type price for it, or does it just belong in a dollar box along with the other drek?

 

Price seriously wouldn't matter, George. The huge attraction for me is that it's got here in this state all on its own. It amazes me and excites me.

 

How sad is that?

 

It's not sad at all, but would you pass on the book if it was offered to you at an 8.5 type price, even though it technically graded higher because of a press?

 

 

Unless it was something I'd experienced absolute murder trying to find, and I had to be pragmatic about having a pressed copy or no copy at all, I'd turn it down. (thumbs u

[pickycollector]

Well Nick, I can't disagree with most of what you wrote here. In fact, I agree with all but the last part since Pressing a nice 8.5 into a nicer 9.2 doesn't turn me off to it. What I can't fathom are the folks who shun that sweet looking 9.2 and treat it like a red-headed step child just because it got the 'treatment'.

 

I can understand not wanting to pay a premium for it if you feel it was "artificially manipulated", but would you still be willing to pay an 8.5 type price for it, or does it just belong in a dollar box along with the other drek?

 

That is a good point you bring here, George.

 

If you already own a 8.5 copy and press it and get a 9.2 copy and cannot tell it has been pressed, you may probably be more happy with it, and that is fine with me if this is what you like. You just paid the pressing fee and you are happy with your "new" book.

 

It is different however if you don't already own that newly 9.2 pressed copy and want to purchase it and know that 5 days ago it was only a 8.5 unpressed copy. Will you feel fair and ethical to pay a 9.2 price for such a book that has been so quickly improved to a better grade ? Don't you think that a book that has survived in a 9.2 condition for more than 40 years should not worth more and is not more desirable than such a Frankenbook ?

 

I think now that pressing can make a few books with specific defects more desirable. But I strongly believe that an unpressed 9.2 book should worth more than a pressed 9.2 copy. For two good reasons: 1) anti-pressers will want to buy it to be part of their untouched collection and 2) pro-pressers will also want to buy it in order to "enhance" it. In both cases there is stronger demand for such book and therefore it should worth more. That is why old labels (majority are unpressed) sell for higher price. That is why (especially for today's new labels) disclosure is so important.

 

That is what bothers me the most here and many other anti-pressers I think. We want to know what we buy. And the day people here finally recognize that an unpressed 9.2 is more desirable than a book that went into plastic surgery and became a pressed 9.2, the incentive for pressing will not be as considerable as it has become now.

[october]

I collect comics because I like them, but a huge part of my enjoyment is being able to share their fine points with others. None of us is collecting in a vacuum.

 

+1

 

+1

 

buttock shared his finer points with me in a Baltimore hotel room and I've never been the same since.

 

 

Really. Spending absurd amounts of money on decaying, old paper goods that 99% of the population deems worthless, and that sit in a box in our closets seen by few if anyone else doesn't seem at all greedy?

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I would rather just call a spade a spade and leave the "greedy presser" comments out of it. From where I am sitting, collecting seems pretty self serving, but your mileage may vary.

[VintageComics]

Andy I agree with you one hundred 100% percent. I also agree with Dan's comment that I quoted.

 

It's an "empty" endeavor that is self serving and basically wasteful to an outsider looking in.

 

Spending $100's, let alone $1000's or $100,000 on old paper is really funny when you step back and analyze it in the grand scheme of things...but then, any sort of pleasurable consumption is.

 

 

[TupennyConan]

October's point about greed & collecting is the same point that Mike Miles & I have made a few times in pressing threads.

 

Bob has shown some real smarts tonight.

 

Tupenny likes Watson & Bedrock.

 

I hope to meet delekkerste one day. Dude is brilliant & I enjoy that I disagree with him on this topic. Hope he doesn't try to break my nose.

 

Kramerica's point about John Buscema is the most profound post in this entire thread.

 

We saw South Pacific today at the Tampa Bay Performing Arts Theater. One of the navy boys was reading a yellow covered Wings comic as a prop. Rolling it up & smacking it on the stage.

 

I really enjoy this hobby.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

If you want me to feel bad for those people, your talking to the wrong guy.

 

Common, common, common books.

 

My definition of a market crash is where the book is worth basically a couple bucks in those grades.

 

Like I said before most of those premiums were bought by collectors who thought they were rare and were probably the first in line to buy them.

 

NEVER EVEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR BE THE FIRST to buy a new 9.8 CGC.

 

Wait on the sidelines and react to the market and make a smart buying decision accordingly after the fact.

 

I agree, don't get me wrong. You and I look at it from an entirely different perspective than "the average slab collector", no doubt...

 

But...just like coins, where "the first ones" caused a feeding fenzy, and MS65 common Morgans were selling for $3K...only to plummet

to $150 within two years over 1990-91...the market for post 1975 uber high grade has crashed, and crashed hard.

 

Remember, nothing operates in a vacuum, and the people who get burned buying a Bats #428 for $1K in 2008 may never come back at all. And that's not good for any of us.

 

True, but were they ever really "here"? Were these people collectors, or merely speculators looking for a quick flip?

 

I honestly don't know the answer, but I would tend to think the latter.

 

Who knows? That's a question that will never have an answer, I suppose. I'm sure there's some of both, and even some with a little from column A, and a little from column B. (Actually, I tend to think that those who pay top dollar ARE the collectors, but it's debatable.)

 

I've said this on the podcast, and I think I've said this here...I got into comics because I wanted to make money. But, luckily, the artform exposed me to a whole world I didn't even know existed, and it's been so rewarding, it's been the focus of a good chunk of my adult life.

 

Would anybody say here I don't have a passion for the artform and all it's myriad wonders? And yet, I got into it because I wanted to make money.

 

Go figure.

[TupennyConan]

I got into comics because I was a little boy.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I collect comics because I like them, but a huge part of my enjoyment is being able to share their fine points with others. None of us is collecting in a vacuum.

 

+1

 

+1

 

buttock shared his finer points with me in a Baltimore hotel room and I've never been the same since.

 

 

Really. Spending absurd amounts of money on decaying, old paper goods that 99% of the population deems worthless, and that sit in a box in our closets seen by few if anyone else doesn't seem at all greedy?

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I would rather just call a spade a spade and leave the "greedy presser" comments out of it. From where I am sitting, collecting seems pretty self serving, but your mileage may vary.

 

My father and his brothers and their aunt would sit around the table in the early 50's, assembling their stamp collections. Even though my one uncle was a dippy greed monger, for the most part, they enjoyed the time together, helping each other out with ones they didn't have, until all their books were filled. There was no thought to monetary value, and they didn't hide them away and let no one look at them.

 

I guess it just depends on why you're collecting. Collecting things is a time honored way of grounding yourself, relieving tension (ha!), sharing something with your loved ones, and pursuing something that can give a little extra bit of spice to life.

 

And those collectors who do it with a special eye to preserving history are doing it for altruistic reasons, especially if they eventually display their collections for others to see.

 

They're not all dragon hoards....

[RockMyAmadeus]

I got into comics because I was a little boy.

 

Unfortunately, I wasn't.

 

When I got into comics, that is.

 

I got into Star Wars because I was a little boy, though.

[TupennyConan]

Collecting is about control.

[Rocketeer]

October's point about greed & collecting is the same point that Mike Miles & I have made a few times in pressing threads.

 

Bob has shown some real smarts tonight.

 

Tupenny likes Watson & Bedrock.

 

I hope to meet delekkerste one day. Dude is brilliant & I enjoy that I disagree with him on this topic. Hope he doesn't try to break my nose.

 

Kramerica's point about John Buscema is the most profound post in this entire thread.

 

We saw South Pacific today at the Tampa Bay Performing Arts Theater. One of the navy boys was reading a yellow covered Wings comic as a prop. Rolling it up & smacking it on the stage.

 

I really enjoy this hobby.

 

.... ....I Like Pie!!....

[RockMyAmadeus]

Collecting is about control.

 

That too...

[MCMiles]

People pay full GPA, sometimes more, for books knowing they have been pressed and may have been a previously lower grade at one time.

 

I think most people including pro-pressers understand why others value an unpressed book more, or would prefer not to own any pressed books. I think most people respect that opinion also. I'm not sure why those that dislike pressing find it so hard to understand that many don't have the same aversion to pressed books.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I collect sweet looking Silver/early Bronze books in the 9.0-9.4 range. No real keys, no real expensive items and certainly no 'top census' copies. However, I love books in that grade because they pretty much look like they did when I was actually buying them from the spinner racks back when I was a kid. It's a nostalgia thing, sure, but it's also a sense of wonder that, whilst I have become more and more ed as the years have gone by, these little beauties haven't! They've survived 40 years in the same condition without any assistance.

 

That's why I dislike pressing...and it has absolutely zero to do with money or status or some twisted geek sense of self-worth.

 

Nicely put, Nick.

 

Well Nick, I can't disagree with most of what you wrote here. In fact, I agree with all but the last part since Pressing a nice 8.5 into a nicer 9.2 doesn't turn me off to it. What I can't fathom are the folks who shun that sweet looking 9.2 and treat it like a red-headed step child just because it got the 'treatment'.

 

I can understand not wanting to pay a premium for it if you feel it was "artificially manipulated", but would you still be willing to pay an 8.5 type price for it, or does it just belong in a dollar box along with the other drek?

 

Price seriously wouldn't matter, George. The huge attraction for me is that it's got here in this state all on its own. It amazes me and excites me.

 

How sad is that?

 

It's not sad at all, but would you pass on the book if it was offered to you at an 8.5 type price, even though it technically graded higher because of a press?

 

 

Unless it was something I'd experienced absolute murder trying to find, and I had to be pragmatic about having a pressed copy or no copy at all, I'd turn it down. (thumbs u

 

I think this is why so many GA collectors don't feel so impassioned about Pressing...when the market has seen maybe a half dozen examples of a specific book in a particular grade in the last two decades, you tend to not be so picky.

 

 

[Rocketeer]

Really. Spending absurd amounts of money on decaying, old paper goods that 99% of the population deems worthless, and that sit in a box in our closets seen by few if anyone else doesn't seem at all greedy?

 

...BTW...whenever I have people over my house for the first time I always show them my comic collection,..kind of an ice breaker and it really puts them at ease,... which makes it easier for me to club them over the head before tossing them in the pit, dug out in my basement,...I'm just saying,...

[Bosco685]

Really. Spending absurd amounts of money on decaying, old paper goods that 99% of the population deems worthless, and that sit in a box in our closets seen by few if anyone else doesn't seem at all greedy?

 

...BTW...whenever I have people over my house for the first time I always show them my comic collection,..kind of an ice breaker and it really puts them at ease,... which makes it easier for me to club them over the head before tossing them in the pit, dug out in my basement,...I'm just saying,...

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I'm not sure why those that dislike pressing find it so hard to understand that many don't have the same aversion to pressed books.

 

Because you're destroying history, kicking puppies, and spitting on baby jesus by pressing said book. Whether its yours to do with as you please is largely irrelevant, you greedy SOB.

 

BTW, I'm rooting for the Vikes tomorrow, but I think your Boys just might pull the upset. In which case, I'm rooting for the Saints next week.

 

 

[MCMiles]

I'm not sure why those that dislike pressing find it so hard to understand that many don't have the same aversion to pressed books.

 

Because you're destroying history, kicking puppies, and spitting on baby jesus by pressing said book. Whether its yours to do with as you please is largely irrelevant, you greedy SOB.

 

BTW, I'm rooting for the Vikes tomorrow, but I think your Boys just might pull the upset. In which case, I'm rooting for the Saints next week.

 

 

GO COWBOYS!