How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[Monstro]

You guys can keep preaching that negative outlook, which I really don't think some of you honestly believe. Trimming, under any circumstances, will never have the slimmest of acceptance. Yes, some would take that angle if they thought it could make them money, but the money would not be there, because if CGC came out and said ,"we can't detect it. We are not going to label it.", the whole house of cards would come crashing down. CGC would loose credibity and likely fail, and a book in a slab wouldn't be worth jack mess.

 

 

Mike, please stop making sense with your posts as you’re going to upset the insane members hear.

 

your Cowboys.

here

 

[HOTFLIPS]

I am sure pressing would still be taking place in the hobby. But nothing like what is going on today. No way in hell.

 

So what are you saying: that CGC is to blame?

 

Whose "blaming" CGC? It's an unintended consequence.

 

To deny that the slab market/.2 grading increment system didn't drive the exponential growth of pressing seems to be a denial of reality.

Yes denying that would actually be top 10 dumbest things said in 2010. Seriously raw books just arent worth pressing the way graded books are. No slab market, much less pressing.

 

Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NewWorldOrder]

You guys can keep preaching that negative outlook, which I really don't think some of you honestly believe. Trimming, under any circumstances, will never have the slimmest of acceptance. Yes, some would take that angle if they thought it could make them money, but the money would not be there, because if CGC came out and said ,"we can't detect it. We are not going to label it.", the whole house of cards would come crashing down. CGC would loose credibity and likely fail, and a book in a slab wouldn't be worth jack mess.

 

 

Mike, please stop making sense with your posts as you’re going to upset the insane members hear.

 

your Cowboys.

here

 

I know, I know Mike is confusing you.

 

See I told him to stop……

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I am sure pressing would still be taking place in the hobby. But nothing like what is going on today. No way in hell.

 

So what are you saying: that CGC is to blame?

 

Whose "blaming" CGC? It's an unintended consequence.

 

To deny that the slab market/.2 grading increment system didn't drive the exponential growth of pressing seems to be a denial of reality.

Yes denying that would actually be top 10 dumbest things said in 2010. Seriously raw books just arent worth pressing the way graded books are. No slab market, much less pressing.

 

Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What up Jeff

[VintageComics]

I am sure pressing would still be taking place in the hobby. But nothing like what is going on today. No way in hell.

 

So what are you saying: that CGC is to blame?

 

Whose "blaming" CGC? It's an unintended consequence.

 

To deny that the slab market/.2 grading increment system didn't drive the exponential growth of pressing seems to be a denial of reality.

Yes denying that would actually be top 10 dumbest things said in 2010. Seriously raw books just arent worth pressing the way graded books are. No slab market, much less pressing.

 

Yeah, but you can say that about any from of commerce. It will always evolve, and as that little commerce grows in size there will always be more and more little niches found within it.

 

Insurance, banks, corporations. All have little niches within niches, and they all are formed as the beast grows.

 

It's a necessary consequence of anything related to money.

 

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I am sure pressing would still be taking place in the hobby. But nothing like what is going on today. No way in hell.

 

So what are you saying: that CGC is to blame?

 

Whose "blaming" CGC? It's an unintended consequence.

 

To deny that the slab market/.2 grading increment system didn't drive the exponential growth of pressing seems to be a denial of reality.

Yes denying that would actually be top 10 dumbest things said in 2010. Seriously raw books just arent worth pressing the way graded books are. No slab market, much less pressing.

 

Yeah, but you can say that about any from of commerce. It will always evolve, and as that little commerce grows in size there will always be more and more little niches found within it.

 

Insurance, banks, corporations. All have little niches within niches, and they all are formed as the beast grows.

 

It's a necessary consequence of anything related to money.

 

I just want comics to tank for awhile. I collect books cause I like them, not value.

[VintageComics]

I just want comics to tank for awhile. I collect books cause I like them, not value.

 

I like 'em too.

 

Everyone has a different interest. Just like in politics and business.

 

 

[DarkKnightReturns]

You guys can keep preaching that negative outlook, which I really don't think some of you honestly believe. Trimming, under any circumstances, will never have the slimmest of acceptance. Yes, some would take that angle if they thought it could make them money, but the money would not be there, because if CGC came out and said ,"we can't detect it. We are not going to label it.", the whole house of cards would come crashing down. CGC would loose credibity and likely fail, and a book in a slab wouldn't be worth jack mess.

 

 

Mike, please stop making sense with your posts as you’re going to upset the insane members hear.

 

your Cowboys.

here

 

I know, I know Mike is confusing you.

 

See I told him to stop……

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I just want comics to tank for awhile. I collect books cause I like them, not value.

 

I like 'em too.

 

Everyone has a different interest. Just like in politics and business.

 

I just like the art and stories. The money is the negative IMO

[RockMyAmadeus]

So you are claiming CGC can differentiate between "artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox"?

 

 

I think what he is saying is that if CGC kept scans and compared every book, they'd be able to keep track of upgrades.

 

I still think it will be near impossible to detect a properly pressed book scientifically.

 

I could be wrong, but because the book has already been subjected to heat and pressure during the printing process, and books are regularly subjected to heat in warmer climates and pressure in certain storage conditions it would be really, really tough to isolate the characteristics of a pressed book with any reasonable accuracy in a time effective and a cost effective method.

 

I mean sure, if you wanted to have a book analyzed in a lab for a few days you might be able to get some idea of whether the book may have encountered "press like" conditions, but I really don't think you will ever be able to prove and isolate all books to simply "pressed" or "unpressed" categories.

 

At best, you will have a majority of books in the middle "unknown" territory.

 

The cost, should this ever become possible, would be enormous, relatively speaking.

 

If indeed pressing causes some sort of advanced decay to the book (which is both unproven and not likely for every pressed book since pressing methods vary), then this is where that technology might be useful...but not in the detection of actual pressing itself.

 

Right now people are basing prices paid for a book on the whiteness of paper because they assume there is a direct correlation between whiteness and longevity. This is not necessarily the case for every book.

 

I can see a technology taking root whereby the paper of an Action #1 or Detective #27 or a Marvel #1 are subjected to some form of lab testing to figure out how far advanced the decay of the paper is. For books like this, it would make sense to have some sort of barometer for this sort of longevity and cost would not be as prohibitive.

 

To simply subject every book to a similar sort of test just doesn't sound feasible.

 

Then we have to ask the question, who will want yet another set of hands handling their treasures for lab testing? More shipping, more hands, more possibility of damage.

 

It's a great topic in and of itself.

 

The concept fails for all the reasons stated above.

 

First and foremost is...even with the most identifiable book that exists...say, the Pay Copy of Marvel Comics #1...there is still the (and I really wish some people would get this through their heads) normal and natural subjectivity in grading that is not only good, it's necessary to maintain the integrity of the system. A book that grades a 9.0 could easily...and legitimately...grade an 8.5 or a 9.2 on another day. That's because the differences in the flaws between these "quarter grades" (that is, VF+ to VF/NM to NM-) are negligible and subjective.

 

Well trained graders, who are doing their job to the best of their ability, will never, and should never, come to complete and total agreement on every single book they grade. That is why there are THREE graders, and not one. The system works not because they all must come to complete agreement on one grade, but because you won't get one grader grading a book 4.5, one grading it 8.5, and another grading it 9.9. And yes, that has happened in the collecting world often, and still does. You might get one grader grading the book 8.5, one grading it 9.0, and another grading it 9.2...and none of them are wrong.

 

We should be dancing in the streets that there's a service that gets it so close to agreement, so MUCH of the time, not screaming because "this book was graded an 8.5 before and now it's a 9.0...INCONSISTENT!!!!!!"

 

The lesson that should be taken away is NOT that CGC is "inconsistent"...the lesson that should be taken away is that , since the differences in quarter grades is so insignificant as to be neglibile, then WHY are there multiples in prices paid between these grades?

 

So if a book is "upgraded" from one submission to the next, that doesn't necessarily mean "work was done to it."

 

Second...as noted before, there are multiple ways for a workable flaw to be worked out without it being subjected to a dry mount press.

 

Locking in any specific book to a specific grade would defeat the purpose of a grading company that is supposed to evaluate a book as it is, in front of them, at that moment in time...not what it was, nor what it could be...as it is, right then.

 

 

[Davenport]

I am sure pressing would still be taking place in the hobby. But nothing like what is going on today. No way in hell.

 

So what are you saying: that CGC is to blame?

 

Whose "blaming" CGC? It's an unintended consequence.

 

To deny that the slab market/.2 grading increment system didn't drive the exponential growth of pressing seems to be a denial of reality.

True, the grading increments provided an engine. Halperin's "crack-out game" imported from coins, combined with that "non-original material" resto-caveat, produced jet fuel.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Many of us have done it through the years. I remember as a kid trying to flatten out books and erase dirt. Many of us did it.

 

 

 

I did it, too. Still do. I've got several books that have been under weight for several years.

 

Not as quick or efficient as a dry mount press, but it gets the job done.

[alecholland]

I'm just wondering about venues outside of this marketplace. If two copies of the same book, in the same grade, same PQ showed up on CLink (for example), but one had the designation PRESSED on the label, what would happen?

The two copies of the same book portion not necessarily withstanding, you already have that to some extent with some of the GA and Church books. They are given blue labels with notations of glue or dots of color touch and continue to sell without deterrent.

 

I think the pedigree designation has something to do with that though. I'm not sure you can really compare sales of a pedigree and non-pedigree book. Even with a bit of glue or color touch, I'm sure the pedigree book would sell as well (possibly even better) than it's non pedigree counterpart.

 

For the purpose of my suggested test, I would think both books would also have to be the same in regard to pedigree or non-pedigree, otherwise the result could be skewed.

I don't disagree, but I don't know enough to know if there are GA books out there with with "restored" blues that aren't pedigree books or not.

 

My point is that people have accepted those books with the labeling, so I can see the same with a PRESSING designation.

 

Then I guess I'm wondering why not try it out and see.

 

I think you could be right, and perhaps it could put somewhat of an end to the pressing debates because then everything would truly be out in the open. At that point, if buyers were still buying the books regardless and paying the same prices, it could establish that the hobby in general truly doesn't have a problem with pressed books.

 

It's just a thought.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I don't know why people are always looking to lay some sort of *blame* when it comes to pressing.

 

It's a natural progression for a paper product, based on the way even the youngest, innocent collector (with no nefarious intentions) would try to improve their own personal books.

 

By that argument, you could say that any form of resto is a "natural progression for a paper product".

 

It is....

 

http://www.archives.gov/preservation/internal/index.html

[RockMyAmadeus]

300 to go!

 

Woohoo!

[VintageComics]

I just want comics to tank for awhile. I collect books cause I like them, not value.

 

I like 'em too.

 

Everyone has a different interest. Just like in politics and business.

 

I just like the art and stories. The money is the negative IMO

 

...but you sell comics for a living...or at least used to.

 

[VintageComics]

300 to go!

 

Woohoo!

 

205.

 

[Nexus]

And, as we have seen recently with the Mound City collection, there is a good probability that the unpressed book would be bought by a dealer or collector/dealer to press, resub for an upgrade, and sell for an even higher price.

 

I think at this point if it is known that a book is not pressed, it's almost a given that it will sell for more than an pressed book.

 

You have two motivated bidder types:

 

1) the bidder who wants to own an unpressed book

2) the bidder who wants an increase in grade from the unpressed book.

 

At this point is it fair to say that if a collector wants to own a book that is unpressed that they will have to be willing to pay a premium to own it?

 

R.

 

 

Isn't this exactly why NOD is such a pipe dream? Books are pressed to maximize profits...why bother disclosing it if a pressed book will be worth less than an unpressed book in the same grade?

 

Apparently there are currently enough high-grade collectors who don't care and a "pressed" designation wouldn't matter to them (just wait, though). So right now, it's easy for certain sellers to do the right thing and disclose. But if the hobby ever turns anti-pressing, and collectors vote with their dollars...I wonder how many sellers will continue disclosing.

 

[Nexus]

Has there ever been a poll, for pressing and against? I'm guessing there has, if so, what was the percentages 50/50?

 

I'd like to see the poll separated out into "buying" and "selling". My guess is that the scales will tip towards "against" in the buying poll and tip towards "for" in the selling poll.

[NewWorldOrder]

Has there ever been a poll, for pressing and against? I'm guessing there has, if so, what was the percentages 50/50?

 

I'd like to see the poll separated out into "buying" and "selling". My guess is that the scales will tip towards "against" in the buying poll and tip towards "for" in the selling poll.

 

Not here as I have bought pressed books and will always pay the same whether the book was pressed or not for that given grade.