How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[Dale Roberts]

 

There is no theory my friend, trimming obviously takes away from a book.

 

I don’t have to assume, but I know that 99% of the comic collectors out there view trimming as the most destructive thing you can do to a comic book. We all know the 1% of people who fit in that equation are trimming for profit and deceit only to cheat people.

While trimming is a destructive "cheat", usually part of a scam attempt, do most collectors consider trimming the most invasive "not-restoration" treatment?

 

A disclosed micro-sliver off an edge (PLOD) seems much less invasive than an undisclosed (Blue) complete disassembly-press-reassembly. At least with the micro-trim the book is still 99.99% intact and of factory vintage.

 

With a complete disassembly 100% of the original vintage book-assembly is toast. Reassembly creates a new modern "book", just made from old parts. That seems near the pentacle of "invasive".

 

Yeah, I'm probably alone in that conclusion, and to boot. But, there you go.

 

Why would you even brind disassembly of a book into the picture. I cannot see myself looking at a comic with a non-color breaking crease and going "If I take it completely apart it will be much better than new". I don't see your logic.

 

The time to disassemble a book would price a straight pressing out of the reach of most (dealers included). I could only see this as part of additional restorative processes being done at the same time.

 

Regarding pressing and trimming being the same I ask you try something for me. Ask a good friend to place a piece of plywood over your hand. Then add a 15 pound weight over it. Leave it in place for an hour.

 

Now I want you to ask another friend to put your hand into a paper trimmer and slice off the tips of your fingers. Let me know if it's the same to you.

now that is funny

[Dale Roberts]

I am out of this thread. It has derailed into complete nonsense.

[Nexus]

Regarding pressing and trimming being the same I ask you try something for me. Ask a good friend to place a piece of plywood over your hand. Then add a 15 pound weight over it. Leave it in place for an hour.

 

Now I want you to ask another friend to put your hand into a paper trimmer and slice off the tips of your fingers. Let me know if it's the same to you.

 

Regarding pressing having no effect on the book I ask you to try something for me. Stick your hand in a press and clamp down. Leave it in there for the same amount of time it takes to press a book. Add heat (did I read 180 degrees?). Now tell me if your hand is the same as before you put it in the press.

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[Davenport]

With a complete disassembly 100% of the original vintage book-assembly is toast. Reassembly creates a new modern "book", just made from old parts. That seems near the pentacle of "invasive".

 

Yeah, I'm probably alone in that conclusion, and to boot. But, there you go.

 

What? That's crazy - with a complete disassembly & re-assembly, 100% of the original book is still intact.

 

That's like saying if I take my computer apart and put all the pieces back together again, it's suddenly a different computer

Ok, I was hoping not to try and explain my insanity. But, here goes...

 

Comic books are, well, books. Collecting comics is collecting books (as opposed to newspaper sections). Books are an assembly of individual parts. The original assembly is unique, a point-in-time vintage, it's "factory" (same as those factory trimmed edges are unique to the point of manufacture). With me?

 

Take re-assembly: It's also unique to a point-in-time. Before you recreated a "book", you had only book parts. The assembly will be new and modern.

 

Not sure about computers. My guess is a complete disassembly and reassembly would warrant a "refurbished" warning. Done by the original manufacturer and probably "factory refurbished". I don't know.

[Monstro]

To bad there isn’t a video somewhere showing a book being pressed the way most are doing it. Then maybe people could formulate a better opinion.

[joeypost]

Regarding pressing and trimming being the same I ask you try something for me. Ask a good friend to place a piece of plywood over your hand. Then add a 15 pound weight over it. Leave it in place for an hour.

 

Now I want you to ask another friend to put your hand into a paper trimmer and slice off the tips of your fingers. Let me know if it's the same to you.

 

Regarding pressing having no effect on the book I ask you to try something for me. Stick your hand in a press and clamp down. Leave it in there for the same amount of time it takes to press a book. Add heat (did I read 180 degrees?). Now tell me if your hand is the same as before you put it in the press.

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

You assume everyone uses heat.

[Davenport]

Regarding pressing and trimming being the same I ask you try something for me. Ask a good friend to place a piece of plywood over your hand. Then add a 15 pound weight over it. Leave it in place for an hour.

 

Now I want you to ask another friend to put your hand into a paper trimmer and slice off the tips of your fingers. Let me know if it's the same to you.

Wow, now there's some logic. (thumbs u

 

Ok, while I'm doing that why don't you get two friends.

 

Have one slice off the tips of your fingers. Have the other one completely disassemble your body down to it's parts and put it back together.

 

Let me know which one felt more invasive.

[MCMiles]

As Dale said, this has boiled down to complete nonsense.

 

With that, no one is ever talking about disassembly except Davenport. I have nonidea why.

 

As far as holding my hand in a dry mount press at 180 degrees, I suppose if my hand had the same composition as a comic book it wouldn't be an issue. Even though I can cup fairly warm water in my hands without bother, I don't place them on the stove to boil the water either.

 

Yep, nothing but nonsense now.

[Davenport]

As Dale said, this has boiled down to complete nonsense.

 

With that, no one is ever talking about disassembly except Davenport. I have no idea why.

 

Yep, nothing but nonsense now.

I just voiced an opinion. Maybe it is nonsense, obviously was a big mistake.

 

Either way NDP and DP are ALWAYS part of the pressing debate. Why? Because NDP and DP are BOTH acceptable and NOT "restoration". Either way, blue Universal labels.

 

I'm out.

 

 

 

 

 

[whisp]

Regarding pressing and trimming being the same I ask you try something for me. Ask a good friend to place a piece of plywood over your hand. Then add a 15 pound weight over it. Leave it in place for an hour.

 

Now I want you to ask another friend to put your hand into a paper trimmer and slice off the tips of your fingers. Let me know if it's the same to you.

Wow, now there's some logic. (thumbs u

 

Ok, while I'm doing that why don't you get two friends.

 

Have one slice off the tips of your fingers. Have the other one completely disassemble your body down to it's parts and put it back together.

 

Let me know which one felt more invasive.

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

To this thread Tupenny says ciao baby...

 

 

Probably the single best post in this entire thread.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Mad amounts of WIN in this thread.

[DrWatson]

Regarding pressing and trimming being the same I ask you try something for me. Ask a good friend to place a piece of plywood over your hand. Then add a 15 pound weight over it. Leave it in place for an hour.

 

Now I want you to ask another friend to put your hand into a paper trimmer and slice off the tips of your fingers. Let me know if it's the same to you.

Wow, now there's some logic. (thumbs u

 

Ok, while I'm doing that why don't you get two friends.

 

Have one slice off the tips of your fingers. Have the other one completely disassemble your body down to it's parts and put it back together.

 

Let me know which one felt more invasive.

Quit being a nincompoop.

 

No one believes that the complete disassembly of a comic book should not receive a purple label. Wake up and smell the printer's ink.

[DrWatson]

Oh, and tth2, with all the high dollar, high grade books you have bought and sold through Heritage, how many books do you think that afforded them to acquire and have pressed with the commissions they made off the transactions?

 

I really hope the underpinning assertion here is not, if you own CGC books, or deal w/ Heritage then you can't question the practices of either entity.

No, not at all. However, since everyone loves over the top analogies, how can one complain about the war in Afghanistan and then continue to send funds to the Taliban?

 

CGC = Taliban?

 

Not sure about that theory, I just can't imagine Paul Litch with a Beard.

That could work, but you could substitute CGC with just about any other institution.

[MCMiles]

As Dale said, this has boiled down to complete nonsense.

 

With that, no one is ever talking about disassembly except Davenport. I have no idea why.

 

Yep, nothing but nonsense now.

I just voiced an opinion. Maybe it is nonsense, obviously was a big mistake.

 

Either way NDP and DP are ALWAYS part of the pressing debate. Why? Because NDP and DP are BOTH acceptable and NOT "restoration". Either way, blue Universal labels.

 

I'm out.

 

 

 

 

 

My apologies, it's not nonsense to voice your opinion, and I agree that DP is very invasive. It's nonsense to not recognize the magnitude of difference between trimming and NDP. It would also be nonsense for anyone to not recognize the difference between DP and NDP.

 

As proven already since myself, Joey, and Dale have already spoken against DP, even the majority of pro-pressers aren't accepting of it. (More proof that most would not accept trimming no matter if CGC had a different opinion of it.)

 

Does CGC not consider DP, restoration? I honestly don't know. I've never thought about it. Probably because it seems the only time it would be done is with other restoration procedures.

I'm guess I'm wrong, but I didn't realize that DP was always part of the pressing debate. It has minimal relevance since it's not the widely used practice that is going on in the hobby.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Soooooo close to 1500....we can do it!

 

[Davenport]

As Dale said, this has boiled down to complete nonsense.

 

With that, no one is ever talking about disassembly except Davenport. I have no idea why.

 

Yep, nothing but nonsense now.

I just voiced an opinion. Maybe it is nonsense, obviously was a big mistake.

 

Either way NDP and DP are ALWAYS part of the pressing debate. Why? Because NDP and DP are BOTH acceptable and NOT "restoration". Either way, blue Universal labels.

 

I'm out.

 

 

 

 

 

My apologies, it's not nonsense to voice your opinion, and I agree that DP is very invasive. It's nonsense to not recognize the magnitude of difference between trimming and NDP. It would also be nonsense for anyone to not recognize the difference between DP and NDP.

 

As proven already since myself, Joey, and Dale have already spoken against DP, even the majority of pro-pressers aren't accepting of it. (More proof that most would not accept trimming no matter if CGC had a different opinion of it.)

 

Does CGC not consider DP, restoration? I honestly don't know. I've never thought about it. Probably because it seems the only time it would be done is with other restoration procedures.

I'm guess I'm wrong, but I didn't realize that DP was always part of the pressing debate. It has minimal relevance since it's not the widely used practice that is going on in the hobby.

Emphasis mine:

 

"CGC does not consider the following to be restoration and comics with these conditions may receive their blue Universal label: tape removal, dry cleaning (i.e., erasing pencil writing or surface grime with an eraser or other object), tucking loose wraps back under a staple, disassembly and reassembly of a comic, certain staple replacement, and pressing."

 

Not worth discussing though. Nincompoop territory.

[Sal]

Regarding pressing and trimming being the same I ask you try something for me. Ask a good friend to place a piece of plywood over your hand. Then add a 15 pound weight over it. Leave it in place for an hour.

 

Now I want you to ask another friend to put your hand into a paper trimmer and slice off the tips of your fingers. Let me know if it's the same to you.

Wow, now there's some logic. (thumbs u

 

Ok, while I'm doing that why don't you get two friends.

 

Have one slice off the tips of your fingers. Have the other one completely disassemble your body down to it's parts and put it back together.

 

Let me know which one felt more invasive.

Quit being a nincompoop.

No one believes that the complete disassembly of a comic book should not receive a purple label. Wake up and smell the printer's ink.

 

you sure about that?

 

 

[DrWatson]

Regarding pressing and trimming being the same I ask you try something for me. Ask a good friend to place a piece of plywood over your hand. Then add a 15 pound weight over it. Leave it in place for an hour.

 

Now I want you to ask another friend to put your hand into a paper trimmer and slice off the tips of your fingers. Let me know if it's the same to you.

Wow, now there's some logic. (thumbs u

 

Ok, while I'm doing that why don't you get two friends.

 

Have one slice off the tips of your fingers. Have the other one completely disassemble your body down to it's parts and put it back together.

 

Let me know which one felt more invasive.

Quit being a nincompoop.

No one believes that the complete disassembly of a comic book should not receive a purple label. Wake up and smell the printer's ink.

 

you sure about that?

 

I can qualify that by saying no one that I know (more or less in this thread) believes it should not receive a purple label.

[MCMiles]

As Dale said, this has boiled down to complete nonsense.

 

With that, no one is ever talking about disassembly except Davenport. I have no idea why.

 

Yep, nothing but nonsense now.

I just voiced an opinion. Maybe it is nonsense, obviously was a big mistake.

 

Either way NDP and DP are ALWAYS part of the pressing debate. Why? Because NDP and DP are BOTH acceptable and NOT "restoration". Either way, blue Universal labels.

 

I'm out.

 

 

 

 

 

My apologies, it's not nonsense to voice your opinion, and I agree that DP is very invasive. It's nonsense to not recognize the magnitude of difference between trimming and NDP. It would also be nonsense for anyone to not recognize the difference between DP and NDP.

 

As proven already since myself, Joey, and Dale have already spoken against DP, even the majority of pro-pressers aren't accepting of it. (More proof that most would not accept trimming no matter if CGC had a different opinion of it.)

 

Does CGC not consider DP, restoration? I honestly don't know. I've never thought about it. Probably because it seems the only time it would be done is with other restoration procedures.

I'm guess I'm wrong, but I didn't realize that DP was always part of the pressing debate. It has minimal relevance since it's not the widely used practice that is going on in the hobby.

Emphasis mine:

 

"CGC does not consider the following to be restoration and comics with these conditions may receive their blue Universal label: tape removal, dry cleaning (i.e., erasing pencil writing or surface grime with an eraser or other object), tucking loose wraps back under a staple, disassembly and reassembly of a comic, certain staple replacement, and pressing."

 

Not worth discussing though. Nincompoop territory.

 

Well, there you go. That's at least two CGC policies that even most pro-pressers disagree with. Does anyone want to admit that trimming will always be disagreeable also?