Why is Jonah Hex so popular?

[shiverbones]

I appreciate a real response from you instead of a knee jerk reaction. I would like to throw out a few things, but I will probably not engage in much more back & forth.

 

The Hex movie sucking did not retroactively change the fact that for 15 years this was a hard & expensive book sought after by comic collectors. It affects speculators who inflated value. Who cares, it was expensive before there was any talk of a movie.

 

Barbie, Beatles & Ronald are all harder to find comics appealing to a people who already buy collectibles. Star Wars has collectors too, but there are more than enough copies of the comic for every collector who still wants one. I still believe Popularity in the regular world does not effect comic values much. If Star Wars #1 was as hard to find as Ronald #1 it would be selling for prices closer to the variant's value, or if everyone who loved Star Wars movies, not just people who are already star wars collectors, decided to buy Star Wars #1 it would be a $10k book, but that will never happen. The average movie goer would never entertain spending even $20 on a comic.

 

DC outsold marvel through the 1960's actually, it wasn't until Marvel gained more shelf space from the Distributors in 1968 that they started to catch up. Not producing an iconic character in the 1970's has no relevance on what they sell for today. I think this is where you are confusing everything. You are still stating relevance at the time should equate value now, but that isn't always the case. Like it or not Some of the most desirable Bronze comics are DC, who cares what Kirby didn't do. He has nothing to do with the Price a 9.6 Bats227 goes for. Who cares that there was no "iconic" character produced, there are still more COMIC COLLECTORS who want a NM HOM175 than there are copies extant. Same holds true for ASW10, it's really that simple.

[Scott Goodman]

Actually, have you seen the prices on Dominguez art these days? It's definitely worth more than SOME Grell art. But, Dominguez wasn't the artist on Jonah Hex in the earliest days. That was Tony DeZuniga, who was a very popular artist back then. Try price-comparing his cover art from Weird Western Tales to Mike Grell's cover art on, say, Warlord, and I think you'll find that DeZuniga art is catching up to Grell's in price.

Dominguez's covers do sell for quite a bit these days. There are several sites with Dominguez covers for sale and these are mostly horror covers without any name characters on them and they sell in the range of $1800-$2000 each.

As far as Jonah Hex's popularity: Way back around 1991, I remember Tony Starks, who deals mostly in bronze age comics, writing for one of the comics magazines that All-Star Western 10 was going to one day be a very key book and it was way undervalued. So, the popularity of this book stretches a long way back.

Now, try finding a really high grade copy. Those are as rare as hens teeth and have cost a lot of money going back, again, to the early 1990s. In 1991 or 1992, not long after Starks' article came out in, I think, Comic Book Marketplace, I bought a VG copy of ASW10 and paid around $40 for it.

 

[Zonker]

dc comics didnt sell well in the mid 1960s or through the 1970s.

 

*sigh* such strong opinions, such little data

 

Total Paid Circulation figures, per the Standard Guide

 

1968

Avengers.....276,951

Batman.......533,450

JLA.............315,500

F.Four.........344,865

Superman....636,400

ASM...........373,303

 

1969

Avengers.....239,986

Batman.......365,782

JLA.............233,000

F.Four.........340,363

Superman....511,984

ASM...........372,352

 

1970

Avengers.....217,394

Batman.......293,897

JLA.............200,715

F.Four.........285,639

Superman....446,678

ASM...........322,195

 

1971

Avengers.....206,478

Batman.......244,488

JLA.............210,108

F.Four.........275,930

Superman....421,948

ASM...........307,550

 

1972

Avengers.....189,961

Batman.......185,283

JLA.............168,871

F.Four.........245,695

Superman....317,990

ASM...........288,379

 

1973

Avengers.....185,039

Batman.......200,574

JLA.............187,051

F.Four.........225,671

Superman....309,318

ASM...........273,204

 

1974

Avengers.....188,084

Batman.......193,223

JLA.............189,392

F.Four.........218,330

Superman....285,634

ASM...........288,232

 

1975

Avengers.....n/a

Batman.......154,000

JLA.............166,000

F.Four.........216,260

Superman....296,000

ASM...........273,773

 

1976

Avengers.....172,813

Batman.......178,000

JLA.............193,000

F.Four.........199,734

Superman....273,000

ASM...........282,159

 

1977

Avengers.....168,164

Batman.......168,164

JLA.............151,982

F.Four.........199,734

Superman.....235,436

ASM...........281,860

 

1978

Avengers.....162,996

Batman.......125,421

JLA.............126,809

F.Four.........177,802

Superman....223,222

ASM...........258,156

 

1979

Avengers.....229,690

Batman.......166,640

JLA.............128,660

F.Four.........267,511

Superman.....n/a

ASM............n/a

 

1980

Avengers.....235,791

Batman.......129,299

JLA.............131,587

F.Four.........243,786

Superman.....n/a

ASM...........296,712

 

1981

Avengers.....221,394

Batman.......110,997

JLA.............121,587

F.Four.........192,731

Superman....148,637

ASM...........242,781

[shiverbones]

Actually, have you seen the prices on Dominguez art these days? It's definitely worth more than SOME Grell art. But, Dominguez wasn't the artist on Jonah Hex in the earliest days. That was Tony DeZuniga, who was a very popular artist back then. Try price-comparing his cover art from Weird Western Tales to Mike Grell's cover art on, say, Warlord, and I think you'll find that DeZuniga art is catching up to Grell's in price.

Dominguez's covers do sell for quite a bit these days. There are several sites with Dominguez covers for sale and these are mostly horror covers without any name characters on them and they sell in the range of $1800-$2000 each.

As far as Jonah Hex's popularity: Way back around 1991, I remember Tony Starks, who deals mostly in bronze age comics, writing for one of the comics magazines that All-Star Western 10 was going to one day be a very key book and it was way undervalued. So, the popularity of this book stretches a long way back.

Now, try finding a really high grade copy. Those are as rare as hens teeth and have cost a lot of money going back, again, to the early 1990s. In 1991 or 1992, not long after Starks' article came out in, I think, Comic Book Marketplace, I bought a VG copy of ASW10 and paid around $40 for it.

 

Thanks for the bump to my head, I did mean Dezuniga as the artist, I was typing too fast.

[shiverbones]

dc comics didnt sell well in the mid 1960s or through the 1970s.

 

*sigh* such strong opinions, such little data

 

Total Paid Circulation figures, per the Standard Guide

 

1968

Avengers.....276,951

Batman.......533,450

JLA.............315,500

F.Four.........344,865

Superman....636,400

ASM...........373,303

 

1969

Avengers.....239,986

Batman.......365,782

JLA.............233,000

F.Four.........340,363

Superman....511,984

ASM...........372,352

 

1970

Avengers.....217,394

Batman.......293,897

JLA.............200,715

F.Four.........285,639

Superman....446,678

ASM...........322,195

 

1971

Avengers.....206,478

Batman.......244,488

JLA.............210,108

F.Four.........275,930

Superman....421,948

ASM...........307,550

 

1972

Avengers.....189,961

Batman.......185,283

JLA.............168,871

F.Four.........245,695

Superman....317,990

ASM...........288,379

 

1973

Avengers.....185,039

Batman.......200,574

JLA.............187,051

F.Four.........225,671

Superman....309,318

ASM...........273,204

 

1974

Avengers.....188,084

Batman.......193,223

JLA.............189,392

F.Four.........218,330

Superman....285,634

ASM...........288,232

 

1975

Avengers.....n/a

Batman.......154,000

JLA.............166,000

F.Four.........216,260

Superman....296,000

ASM...........273,773

 

1976

Avengers.....172,813

Batman.......178,000

JLA.............193,000

F.Four.........199,734

Superman....273,000

ASM...........282,159

 

1977

Avengers.....168,164

Batman.......168,164

JLA.............151,982

F.Four.........199,734

Superman.....235,436

ASM...........281,860

 

1978

Avengers.....162,996

Batman.......125,421

JLA.............126,809

F.Four.........177,802

Superman....223,222

ASM...........258,156

 

1979

Avengers.....229,690

Batman.......166,640

JLA.............128,660

F.Four.........267,511

Superman.....n/a

ASM............n/a

 

1980

Avengers.....235,791

Batman.......129,299

JLA.............131,587

F.Four.........243,786

Superman.....n/a

ASM...........296,712

 

1981

Avengers.....221,394

Batman.......110,997

JLA.............121,587

F.Four.........192,731

Superman....148,637

ASM...........242,781

 

Thanks Zonker I thought it shifted earlier, but to see Supes Outselling FF & often Spidey in the mid 70's is a pleasant surprise.

[rjpb]

I'd venture a guess that the dramatic drop in Superman sales from 1970-1980 has a lot to do with the shift in comics being frequently sold to parents and relatives at the start of the decade and more to kids (and adult readers) directly by the end.

[the blob]

"why were hex's in discount bins, cause no one wanted them."

 

"Perhaps, but now people do want them."

 

A lot of comics have been in discount bins at one time or another. Nobody cared about Ghostriders for years both before the 1990s series and after it was cancelled. I picked up a high grade set from Joe Koch from spotlight #6 through the end of the GR run on spotlight and it was a little over a buck a book or something. 98.5% of what DC put out in the 70's was in cheapo boxes if you went to a show in the mid-90s, including sharp 100 page giants and stuff like that. New Teen Titans 2 was a dollar box book for a long time. In the 70's and early 80's as I understand it you could barely give Warren magazines away.

 

[the blob]

Sounds like a classic case of "what I like is the best & what you like is no good."

 

 

if you are referring to me not liking the character i have stated it 2-3 times i'm not knocking the character. i'm using evidence of whats available and my experiences to explain my point of a book thats overvalued, in my opinion. i havent said one negative thing about the character or anyone who reads it. i have actually given the book credit as to its staying power. I also think some posters have good points.

 

it just useless internet chatter.

 

the last thing i'm going to do is make fun of what some one likes or collects. i love charlton books and you cant get any lower than that.

 

 

well, isn't the answer as to whether it is "overvalued" depend on what GPA data is out there for the book? if it's consistently selling around $800 in 9.2 or thereabouts then it is not overvalued! but yeah, that does seem really high for 9.2, but i don't know the market for the book. but seriously though, who was hoarding/collecting issues in the middle of the ASW run? spotlight, on the other hand, was from the hot company of the time, was introducing new characters, etc. plus, ghost rider was on a motorcycle and we're frigging talking about the height of evil kneivil's popularity! seriously, you had to be there!

 

as for marvel spotlight 5, there tons more out there. lord knows I have a stack of #4 and had a stack of #6. supply really does impact these things. but with that said, wasn't it like a $2K+ book in 9.6 or something like that at some point? yes, the cover is going to make it tough to find in 9.8/9.6 and ASW 10 doesn't have as problematic a cover.

[Jeffro.]

"why were hex's in discount bins, cause no one wanted them."

 

"Perhaps, but now people do want them."

 

A lot of comics have been in discount bins at one time or another. Nobody cared about Ghostriders for years both before the 1990s series and after it was cancelled. I picked up a high grade set from Joe Koch from spotlight #6 through the end of the GR run on spotlight and it was a little over a buck a book or something. 98.5% of what DC put out in the 70's was in cheapo boxes if you went to a show in the mid-90s, including sharp 100 page giants and stuff like that. New Teen Titans 2 was a dollar box book for a long time. In the 70's and early 80's as I understand it you could barely give Warren magazines away.

 

You're absolutely correct. For YEARS, bronze age DC war and horror was mess to collectors. Didn't Weird War Tales # 1 guide for like a buck or two at one time?

Just because a particular comic was in the dollar bins at one point in its history has zero bearing on its long term collectibility and value.

 

I bought a copy of Batman 251 for $5. (later sold to Nik and subsquently slabbed at 9.6) Bought my Tomb of Dracula 1 (in about the same condition) for $4. ASM 33 for $20. Hulk 102 for $ 20. Went to a con once and bought Werewolf By Night 2-10 for 33 cents each. I had the # 3 slabbed at 9.4 a couple years ago.

yada, yada, yada

[HouseofComics.Com]

I'd venture a guess that the dramatic drop in Superman sales from 1970-1980 has a lot to do with the shift in comics being frequently sold to parents and relatives at the start of the decade and more to kids (and adult readers) directly by the end.

 

Yes, I'd think that's it.

[the blob]

so now I am relishing the day when I pick up a VG copy for $25. pretty sure i have a #11 around here somewhere to go with it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

New Teen Titans 2 was a dollar box book for a long time. In the 70's and early 80's as I understand it you could barely give Warren magazines away.

 

You're picking the wrong book.

 

NTT #2 was never *really* in the dollar boxes like others mentioned were. It was, because it was NTT #2, super hot from the start. By the time NTT cooled down as back issues (1985-ish), people who had paid $10-$15 for it (a monstrous amount in the early 80's), were not happy to sell it for $1-$2 or less. And, because it was #2, it wasn't ordered in any signicifant numbers like, say, #12, so there weren't scads of overstock in dealer stock. In what would have been its prime dollar box years, 1986-1990, it was still pretty well locked up in collections. And, any time it DID show up cheaply, people who remembered how hot it was would buy it hoping that lightning would strike twice...and it did: by 1991, Deathstroke got his own series, and the book was hot again.

 

So, while it would have been dollar bin fodder, it wasn't dollar bin fodder like Spotlight #5-11, Astonishing Tales #25-36, etc, which were NOT hot from the beginning, were. It just never had the chance like other books did.

 

That's not to say it was never in dollar boxes...of course it was. But it was never in dollar boxes in the quantities and scope of other "hot" books.

 

Other good examples of "books that should have been dollar books, but never could quite make it":

 

Superman #75 - this should have been, by all rights, a solid dollar book. But, because of what it was, it's never managed to do that, and you can still get $3-$5 for this, plus shipping, on eBay.

 

New Mutants #87 - by the late 90's, this book should have been a dollar book....but it had the same problem NTT #2 did...too many people who bought it simply were not willing to let it go in any large amounts, and any time it showed up, it was quickly bought.

 

Ghost Rider #1 - This is an "almost" dollar book. Whenever I see it for $1, I buy it, but I never see it in any quantity (unlike, say, GR #5, #6, #15, New Warriors #1, Guardians of the Galaxy #1, etc.)

[RockMyAmadeus]

That is, of course, why I'm so keen on "once hot, now not."

 

A book that has a proven track record, regardless of how cold it may be right now, has a far, far greater chance of "coming back" than an unknown book does of becoming popular.

 

That's why I have scads of Longshot, Lady Death mini, and Gen 13 mini.

 

They may never be hot again.

 

But the odds are in my favor.

[the blob]

Ghost Rider #1 - This is an "almost" dollar book. Whenever I see it for $1, I buy it, but I never see it in any quantity (unlike, say, GR #5, #6, #15, New Warriors #1, Guardians of the Galaxy #1, etc.)

---------

I see it all the time. Sure, maybe not 25 copies at a time, but it goes straight to the dollar box at my shop (a few times a year) and I probably come back with 1 or 2 from every show I go to. I try to limit myself to the sharpest copy I can get, but I still cannot resist it for $1.

 

While NTT #2 was not a dollar box book per se as in it automatically got tossed in there by everyone, it could certainly be found with some regularity 10 or whatever years ago. It was only like $4 or $5 in OPG at some point in like the last 10 years, barely bumped out from 3-10, so it's definitely the sort of book a show dealer who just doesn't want to be bothered would have been tossing in the dollar boxes.

 

I dunno if Marvel Spotlight 5 was worthless from the start. I kindah remember it being bumped out a little in those ads for back issues in comics in the early 80s. I know I picked up a copy for $2 in like 1996 or so and that was after GR had taken off (and come back to earth), but that was only a 5.0 copy and the seller looked like he had just shoplifted them at the show I was at, so I doubt that was "market" at the time.

[the blob]

That is, of course, why I'm so keen on "once hot, now not."

 

A book that has a proven track record, regardless of how cold it may be right now, has a far, far greater chance of "coming back" than an unknown book does of becoming popular.

 

That's why I have scads of Longshot, Lady Death mini, and Gen 13 mini.

 

They may never be hot again.

 

But the odds are in my favor.

 

Yeah, I have scads of those BA guardians of the galaxy appearances too, morbius, hellstorm, deathlok (though only a couple of 25s)...somehow i think i will be waiting a long time, but luckily i didn't pay much for them. sadly, i think we might think the same way, though I have become more condition conscious only in the last 5 years which is too bad. i wish i had been pickier from the start.

 

going back to the original post and grimace being upset first issue special #1 isn't worth as much as all star western 1...I just hit 6 random long boxes out of my collection looking for something. my collection is not organized, so it's hard. i'm not even a warlord collector per se and I came across 5 copies of the 1st issue special. as you might have guessed, none of the ASW 10, and I AM a Jonah Hex hunter gatherer! QUANTITY does matter. and if I have 5 copies in 6 random long boxes you can only imagine how many are out there!

[Jeffro.]

Oh yeah, went to another con once and got for a buck a piece, not only two HG copies of 1st Issue Special 8 but many other issues in the run as well. Ah, those were the days

[RockMyAmadeus]

That is, of course, why I'm so keen on "once hot, now not."

 

A book that has a proven track record, regardless of how cold it may be right now, has a far, far greater chance of "coming back" than an unknown book does of becoming popular.

 

That's why I have scads of Longshot, Lady Death mini, and Gen 13 mini.

 

They may never be hot again.

 

But the odds are in my favor.

 

Yeah, I have scads of those BA guardians of the galaxy appearances too, morbius, hellstorm, deathlok (though only a couple of 25s)...somehow i think i will be waiting a long time, but luckily i didn't pay much for them.

 

Listen, I'll happily take all these books off your hands for what they're worth right now.

 

Happily.

 

(thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

Ghost Rider #1 - This is an "almost" dollar book. Whenever I see it for $1, I buy it, but I never see it in any quantity (unlike, say, GR #5, #6, #15, New Warriors #1, Guardians of the Galaxy #1, etc.)

---------

I see it all the time. Sure, maybe not 25 copies at a time, but it goes straight to the dollar box at my shop (a few times a year) and I probably come back with 1 or 2 from every show I go to. I try to limit myself to the sharpest copy I can get, but I still cannot resist it for $1.

 

See...? YOU can't resist it for $1, either.

 

While NTT #2 was not a dollar box book per se as in it automatically got tossed in there by everyone, it could certainly be found with some regularity 10 or whatever years ago. It was only like $4 or $5 in OPG at some point in like the last 10 years, barely bumped out from 3-10, so it's definitely the sort of book a show dealer who just doesn't want to be bothered would have been tossing in the dollar boxes.

 

While it's been pretty low ($6) in OPG, it's been broken out since 1991. If I had seen it in dollar boxes, I would have howled for joy.

 

I dunno if Marvel Spotlight 5 was worthless from the start. I kindah remember it being bumped out a little in those ads for back issues in comics in the early 80s. I know I picked up a copy for $2 in like 1996 or so and that was after GR had taken off (and come back to earth), but that was only a 5.0 copy and the seller looked like he had just shoplifted them at the show I was at, so I doubt that was "market" at the time.

 

Spotlight #5 was never a big book until the 1990 series, at which point it was nearly 17 yeas old. Yeah, sure, it was broken out like most Bronze age first apps, but it was never really anything until 1990, and then forget it. To demonstrate how crazy that book has been for TWENTY YEARS, I paid $15...full OPG...for a GOOD copy around 2003-2004. I never pay full OPG for anything*, and I just got damn tired of watching copy after copy after copy sell for more than OPG on eBay.

 

 

*some exceptions may apply

[the blob]

Listen, I'll happily take all these books off your hands for what they're worth right now.

 

Happily.

--------------

 

"worth" is a tricky concept though

[the blob]

While it's been pretty low ($6) in OPG, it's been broken out since 1991. If I had seen it in dollar boxes, I would have howled for joy.

 

------------

 

I remember Donut noting how he had taken a haul of them home from dollar boxes at some show he was at in about 2005 as the book was starting to pick up steam again.

 

I got one out of a dollar box at the same time, but, admittedly, it was only a VF copy by the time I got to it (unbagged, unboarded...oh well)

 

it wasn't a book i was actively looking for until it was too late. typical stupid late to the party move as that was actually a character I kindah liked (though i'm not a DC guy) and you gottah like the NTT perez art. it was kind of a no brainer even out of the $2 box, but hindsight is 20/20.