Worldwide's Raw Books

[Paul_Maul]

Just wondering how people's experiences have been ordering high grade raw books from Worldwide. I ordered four bronze age books in NM/NM+ just as a test, and all four of them had very bad QP (trapezoids, parallelograms, but no rectangles).

 

Not trying to bash here, but I want to determine if the raw stock is mostly stuff deemed not good enough to get graded for whatever reason, or whether I just got unlucky and should give it another chance.

 

Thanks for any feedback.

[VintageComics]

Ritter and Matt are both decent graders. I also know that those cuts may not affect the grade all that much as I see many copper and bronze books that are not perfectly cut sitting in 9.6+ holders.

 

Did you buy them without looking at scans?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

They sub tons of books. I would guess if it were worth grading, it would be.

[VintageComics]

They sub tons of books. I would guess if it were worth grading, it would be.

 

I'd think the very same thing but some dealers do so much volume that there is always something that does not get graded, and as far as Bronze books go, some are just not worth grading unless its going to be a key, a 9.6+ or some other special book.

 

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

My thought is easy Roy. If after pressing, grading, etc. They make 40 bucks or more profit, then yes. For CA I would guess pre screen. So the books are likely rejects or not worth the overhead.

[Foolkiller]

They sub tons of books. I would guess if it were worth grading, it would be.

 

In Steve and Matt's case, that's definitely NOT true. The problem is just that, since they sub so many books, it just is impossible for them to sub everything they have.

 

I think Steve is a very accurate grader. His raw stuff always is fairly tight.

 

If you've ever been to their office, you'd see an overwhelming amount of stuff which makes it impossible to grade.

 

I've pulled raw wins from most major dealer's boxes.

[DrWatson]

I've pulled raw wins from most major dealer's boxes.

That's impossible. Everyone knows dealers who sell slabs grade all the good stuff for themselves, even if they already have three graded copies on their wall, and only leave drek in their long boxes.

[Paul_Maul]

Ritter and Matt are both decent graders. I also know that those cuts may not affect the grade all that much as I see many copper and bronze books that are not perfectly cut sitting in 9.6+ holders.

 

Did you buy them without looking at scans?

 

I looked at the scans, and in retrospect, I should have caught a couple of these before ordering. I was focusing mostly on corners and edges and just didn't notice the cuts. It's also tough to tell sometimes from a scan without whipping out a T-square. I just thought it odd that every single book had these issues.

 

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I can tell you that I have never bought a book from them that I didn't agree with the grade. Now I may not buy uhg books, but found the grading accurate. Also two books I bought from them and had graded out as advertised and one higher. No complaints about their grading abilities.

[VintageComics]

My thought is easy Roy. If after pressing, grading, etc. They make 40 bucks or more profit, then yes. For CA I would guess pre screen. So the books are likely rejects or not worth the overhead.

 

If you're looking for a raw 9.6 ASM #129 you won't find one because those will get cherry picked out but I agree with Brian, that there are generally lots of titles worth grading that never get graded. It takes them as much time to process these books as it does you or I to dig them out of the bins and for that reason they just never get to all of them.

 

 

[seanfingh]

I've pulled raw wins from most major dealer's boxes.

That's impossible. Everyone knows dealers who sell slabs grade all the good stuff for themselves, even if they already have three graded copies on their wall, and only leave drek in their long boxes.

 

Dear god! If only I knew.

[fantastic_four]

Just wondering how people's experiences have been ordering high grade raw books from Worldwide. I ordered four bronze age books in NM/NM+ just as a test, and all four of them had very bad QP (trapezoids, parallelograms, but no rectangles).

 

Not trying to bash here, but I want to determine if the raw stock is mostly stuff deemed not good enough to get graded for whatever reason, or whether I just got unlucky and should give it another chance.

 

What titles and issues were these? CGC typically doesn't downgrade for trapezoids and parallelograms on 9.4 or 9.6 copies at all, they'd have to be quite severe, so that wouldn't be a reason WorldWide didn't submit them. I've seen many, many 9.6 miscuts like you're describing; on some issues it's extraordinarily difficult to NOT find them cut like this.

[Foolkiller]

Just wondering how people's experiences have been ordering high grade raw books from Worldwide. I ordered four bronze age books in NM/NM+ just as a test, and all four of them had very bad QP (trapezoids, parallelograms, but no rectangles).

 

Not trying to bash here, but I want to determine if the raw stock is mostly stuff deemed not good enough to get graded for whatever reason, or whether I just got unlucky and should give it another chance.

 

What titles and issues were these? CGC typically doesn't downgrade for trapezoids and parallelograms on 9.4 or 9.6 copies at all, they'd have to be quite severe, so that wouldn't be a reason WorldWide didn't submit them. I've seen many, many 9.6 miscuts like you're describing; on some issues it's extraordinarily difficult to NOT find them cut like this.

 

I've got a 9.8 DD that's cut a bit off (well off)... so CGC definitely doesn't down grade...

[Paul_Maul]

Just wondering how people's experiences have been ordering high grade raw books from Worldwide. I ordered four bronze age books in NM/NM+ just as a test, and all four of them had very bad QP (trapezoids, parallelograms, but no rectangles).

 

Not trying to bash here, but I want to determine if the raw stock is mostly stuff deemed not good enough to get graded for whatever reason, or whether I just got unlucky and should give it another chance.

 

What titles and issues were these? CGC typically doesn't downgrade for trapezoids and parallelograms on 9.4 or 9.6 copies at all, they'd have to be quite severe, so that wouldn't be a reason WorldWide didn't submit them. I've seen many, many 9.6 miscuts like you're describing; on some issues it's extraordinarily difficult to NOT find them cut like this.

 

I've got a 9.8 DD that's cut a bit off (well off)... so CGC definitely doesn't down grade...

 

I've never understood that. If a baseball card is structurally perfect but off-center 70/30, it's grade and value take a huge hit. Does anyone really not think issues like this affect people's perception of desirability? That being the case, why shouldn't QP issues (at least when severe) be taken into account? It's frustrating enough to pay through the nose for a 9.8 only to be dissatisfied with it anyway.

 

Incidentally, all of the books were 25-cent JLAs. As such I thought it believable they might not be worth grading at 9.4/9.6.

[VintageComics]

I've never understood that. If a baseball card is structurally perfect but off-center 70/30, it's grade and value take a huge hit. Does anyone really not think issues like this affect people's perception of desirability? That being the case, why shouldn't QP issues (at least when severe) be taken into account? It's frustrating enough to pay through the nose for a 9.8 only to be dissatisfied with it anyway.

 

Without getting into a long winded discussion on the subject, CGC does take QP into account, just to a different degree than card grading companies do with baseball cards.

 

Certain defects are only allowed in certain grades on CGC graded books and a QP defect can knock a book out of a given grade.

 

A baseball card is 2 dimensional (just a front and back, no interior) so centring likely has a much larger impact on the grade than a comic which is 3 dimensional (has interior pages, staples, a folded spine, etc) and therefore more things that factor into the grade.

 

That's my take on it.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

A baseball card is 2 dimensional (just a front and back, no interior) so centring likely has a much larger impact on the grade than a comic which is 3 dimensional (has interior pages, staples, a folded spine, etc) and therefore more things that factor into the grade.

 

I agree that miscuts shouldn't matter as much for comics as for cards, but CGC ignoring them below the 9.9/9.8 level is a mistake. I actively avoid them myself on 9.6 books; me being forced to do this myself because CGC ignores it is irritating. On certain issues they're extremely common and I have passed on most copies waiting for a non-miscut one. I've passed on many copies of FF 67 in 9.6 because it's so often miscut; Spidey 25 is even more often miscut, copies without a miscut are extraordinarily rare, I estimate that only about 5% to 20% at most are cut straight.

[VintageComics]

A baseball card is 2 dimensional (just a front and back, no interior) so centring likely has a much larger impact on the grade than a comic which is 3 dimensional (has interior pages, staples, a folded spine, etc) and therefore more things that factor into the grade.

 

I agree that miscuts shouldn't matter as much for comics as for cards, but CGC ignoring them below the 9.9/9.8 level is a mistake. I actively avoid them myself on 9.6 books; me being forced to do this myself because CGC ignores it is irritating. On certain issues they're extremely common and I have passed on most copies waiting for a non-miscut one. I've passed on many copies of FF 67 in 9.6 because it's so often miscut; Spidey 25 is even more often miscut, copies without a miscut are extraordinarily rare, I estimate that only about 5% to 20% at most are cut straight.

 

CGC doesn't ignore them on 9.8/9.9 they are just not factored in to the same degree that many people would like.

 

A miscut will keep a book out of 9.8+ but it has to be a relatively large one.

 

 

[zzutak]

A recent post by the420kid provides four examples of Worldwide's (WW's) accuracy on mid-grade pedigrees:

• Strange Adv. 29 (Aurora): WW raw = VG/FN to FN- (ow); CGC = 6.0 ow-wh
  
• Strange Adv. 29 (Bethlehem): WW raw = FN (ow); CGC = 6.0 cr-ow
  
• Strange Adv. 47 (White Mtn): WW raw = VF- (ow-wh); CGC = 6.5 ow-wh
  
• Strange Adv. 54 (Aurora): WW raw = VG+ (ow-wh); CGC = 5.0 ow-wh
  

Based on this, I'd say Worldwide has a pretty good command of CGC's grade and page quality standards. (thumbs u

[Foolkiller]

9.8

 

[VintageComics]

9.8

 

Like I said, I'm not going to get drawn into a long discussion on it but miscuts will affect the grade based on severity.

 

If that was an otherwise perfect book that miscut would likely keep it from 9.9 and definitely from 10.0

 

(thumbs u