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CBCA Sponsors Scientific Testing on the Effects of Pressing

Started by Theagenes,

229 posts in this topic

Theagenes

Theagenes

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Who performed the pressing?

 

Integrated Paper Services, Inc.

 

http://www.ipstesting.com/

 

 

Who performed the testing?

 

Oops, I read Watson's post wrong. IPS did the testing, The pressing was done by one of the leading professionals who performs that service. I don't believe it's appropriate to reveal that without permission.

It's appropriate if the leading professional hasn't had much experience as it relates to pressing a comic book.

 

This professional has a great deal of experience.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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Will there be any testing to test how the book will age?

 

Yes. Please hold your breath until the results are unveiled.

 

lol

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Theagenes

Theagenes

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A series of tests measuring tensile strength and tear resistence was performed on both the covers and interior pages in order to determine whether or not there are any measurable differences between the pressed and unpressed samples.

 

 

How do tensile strength and tear resistance relate to the actual "health" of the paper?

 

 

They are essentially measures of the flexibility of the paper and strength of the fibers respectively. We had also asked for fold testing, but they were unable to that with these samples. I hope that in the future we will be able to do fold testing as well.

 

I think the primary concern that people would have with pressing has to do with how long the book will last (aging) and I wonder if there is a direct correlation between tensile/tear strength and age?

 

Will there be any testing to test how the book will age?

 

This what the fold test would have measured. It was attempted but they weren't able to do it with these samples, unfortunately. I really wanted the fold test, but it just wasn't possible this time. I hope that next time it will be.

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Theagenes

Theagenes

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A data set of 2 is not a data set. If you are going to draw conclusions from testing, you have to at least go the step of determining if the results are significant and 2 data points is never going to be statistically significant.

 

Which is what I stated in my announcement - these are just premilinary results. We have limited funds and this study was paid for primarily through donations. We hope to continue to do further testing as funds are available.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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What's the margin of error in the tests? My own expectation is that the margin of error in most tests will be greater than any actual change in the state of the paper from pressing. If my hypothesis is correct, then testing is useless. Testing would be useful if pressing does create a measurable difference in the paper that is significantly larger than the margin of error in the tests.

 

The specific conditions of the press are useful to know as well. Dry-mount press at what temperature for how long, or was it spot-pressing with an iron? Was moisture introduced prior to pressing? Pressing techniques differ even from the same presser.

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Theagenes

Theagenes

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What's the margin of error in the tests? My own expectation is that the margin of error in most tests will be greater than any actual change in the state of the paper from pressing. If my hypothesis is correct, then testing is useless. Testing would be useful if pressing does create a measurable difference in the paper that is significantly larger than the margin of error in the tests.

 

The specific conditions of the press are useful to know as well. Dry-mount press at what temperature for how long, or was it spot-pressing with an iron? Was moisture introduced prior to pressing?

 

I will be writing up the results and all of these issues will be addressed. (thumbs u

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lizards2

lizards2

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How will you deal with the internet beat-downs and suppression of evidence by the pro-pressing crowd?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:

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User 01001010

User 01001010

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The purpose of this experiment is simply to try and determine whether or not there is a measurable adverse effect of pressing on comic book paper. It is also important to note that due to the limited nature of the experiment these should only be considered preliminary results. It is hoped that we will be able to conduct further testing in the future in order to add to our dataset and to better understand the nature of the pressing process.

 

We will have further announcements as more information becomes available.

 

 

 

why is it so hard for some to understand what was stated?

 

that has been my only concern with pressing, what if any are the long term effects. if they are doing a test on a limited number of books, and the testing is not biased, what is wrong with that?

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comix4fun

comix4fun

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How will you deal with the internet beat-downs and suppression of evidence by the pro-pressing crowd?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:

 

 

 

Probably the same way he deals with internet beat-downs and suppression of valid questions as to methodology and process from the anti-pressing crowd.

 

 

 

 

:whee:

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DrWatson

DrWatson

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How will you deal with the internet beat-downs and suppression of evidence by the pro-pressing crowd?

What will it ultimately matter? The majority of pressed books end up in slabs or Mylar with a backing board anyway. If I had to bet, I would say more books are damaged in the long term by SCS as opposed to correct, professional pressing.

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cheetah

cheetah

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Just from a quick take on the problem, having books tested for the effects of 'pressing' because pressing may adversely affect the paper is an improper hypothesis that confounds the effects of multiple sources into one general category of 'pressing.' Pressing may consist of multiple steps, each one of which has to be tested separately. The affects of long-term storage, humidity, heat, compaction, and paper quality, both immediately and over time, all must be evaluated independently in order to determine if any or all of them can adversely affect the paper.

 

I really recommend that you take the time to consult with a statistician about what you are trying to do and get him/her to prepare an experimental design that can be tested using traditional statistics and arrive at a result that can then be independently tested by someone else. All you are going to do is generate data that can't be duplicated and will only contribute to the pointless arguments that abound on pressing. If folks are passionate about the issue, then look for donations. Testing just one or two books at a time with weeks or months in between is not going to give you supportable answers.

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lizards2

lizards2

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How will you deal with the internet beat-downs and suppression of evidence by the pro-pressing crowd?

What will it ultimately matter? The majority of pressed books end up in slabs or Mylar with a backing board anyway. If I had to bet, I would say more books are damaged in the long term by SCS as opposed to correct, professional pressing.

Well, I think we agree on one thing - but I would augment the SCS damage with just plain encapsulation damage.
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lizards2

lizards2

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Posted
Just from a quick take on the problem, having books tested for the effects of 'pressing' because pressing may adversely affect the paper is an improper hypothesis that confounds the effects of multiple sources into one general category of 'pressing.' Pressing may consist of multiple steps, each one of which has to be tested separately. The affects of long-term storage, humidity, heat, compaction, and paper quality, both immediately and over time, all must be evaluated independently in order to determine if any or all of them can adversely affect the paper.

 

I really recommend that you take the time to consult with a statistician about what you are trying to do and get him/her to prepare an experimental design that can be tested using traditional statistics and arrive at a result that can then be independently tested by someone else. All you are going to do is generate data that can't be duplicated and will only contribute to the pointless arguments that abound on pressing. If folks are passionate about the issue, then look for donations. Testing just one or two books at a time with weeks or months in between is not going to give you supportable answers.

 

I think BCW Supplies is available for consultation....,

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cheetah

cheetah

Posted
Posted
Just from a quick take on the problem, having books tested for the effects of 'pressing' because pressing may adversely affect the paper is an improper hypothesis that confounds the effects of multiple sources into one general category of 'pressing.' Pressing may consist of multiple steps, each one of which has to be tested separately. The affects of long-term storage, humidity, heat, compaction, and paper quality, both immediately and over time, all must be evaluated independently in order to determine if any or all of them can adversely affect the paper.

 

I really recommend that you take the time to consult with a statistician about what you are trying to do and get him/her to prepare an experimental design that can be tested using traditional statistics and arrive at a result that can then be independently tested by someone else. All you are going to do is generate data that can't be duplicated and will only contribute to the pointless arguments that abound on pressing. If folks are passionate about the issue, then look for donations. Testing just one or two books at a time with weeks or months in between is not going to give you supportable answers.

 

I think BCW Supplies is available for consultation....,

 

Somehow, I don't think they know much about experimental statistics.

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DrWatson

DrWatson

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How will you deal with the internet beat-downs and suppression of evidence by the pro-pressing crowd?

What will it ultimately matter? The majority of pressed books end up in slabs or Mylar with a backing board anyway. If I had to bet, I would say more books are damaged in the long term by SCS as opposed to correct, professional pressing.

Well, I think we agree on one thing - but I would augment the SCS damage with just plain encapsulation damage.

I would say we agree on more things than just one. Plus, I doubt we are going to be inundated with a tidal wave of evidence that would even require the notion of entertaining the idea of suppression by the pro-pressing crowd.

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lizards2

lizards2

Posted
Posted
Just from a quick take on the problem, having books tested for the effects of 'pressing' because pressing may adversely affect the paper is an improper hypothesis that confounds the effects of multiple sources into one general category of 'pressing.' Pressing may consist of multiple steps, each one of which has to be tested separately. The affects of long-term storage, humidity, heat, compaction, and paper quality, both immediately and over time, all must be evaluated independently in order to determine if any or all of them can adversely affect the paper.

 

I really recommend that you take the time to consult with a statistician about what you are trying to do and get him/her to prepare an experimental design that can be tested using traditional statistics and arrive at a result that can then be independently tested by someone else. All you are going to do is generate data that can't be duplicated and will only contribute to the pointless arguments that abound on pressing. If folks are passionate about the issue, then look for donations. Testing just one or two books at a time with weeks or months in between is not going to give you supportable answers.

 

I think BCW Supplies is available for consultation....,

 

Somehow, I don't think they know much about experimental statistics.

I'm sure they would argue that point...., whether they are right or wrong. ;)
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