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Does anyone here buy speculative comics off the shelf?

Started by USArmyParatrooper,

127 posts in this topic

400yrs

400yrs

Posted
Posted
The problem I see with speculation is that it falsely inflates the market, and hurts the

When the market crashes, it puts shops out of business, scares talent away from the business, drives customers out of the hobby, and creates a playing field that only the big guys can withstand (so all we get is the same old ).

 

I think what Larry did here maybe had an air of 'fun' to it at first, but he didn't handle the questions about it very well. As an example, if he does respond to this thread, he'll see what I just wrote as some kind of slight.

 

Too many of us were around to see the crash and burn last time (the comic market, not Larry) and it still gives us a trigger response. It was ugly.

There will never be a crash and burn today like the 1990`s. Back then comic books sold in the millions because of speculation.Today a speculative Image comic may get 7000 copies sold if they are that lucky. The 1990`s compared to now is night and day. 2c

Example

Spawn #1 sold over a million copies because of speculators.

Skullkickers #1 didn`t sell 6000 copies even with speculators.

 

That's so sad because it's true.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
Its funny this time Larry is doing the attacking. Most of the time he plays defense after a couple posters attack him for being a retailer. I do like is point about arguing about speculation on a board that incases comics in plastic. Kinda hard to read one in a case.

 

They're totally unrelated to each other. I could lay out why, but no one cares.

 

Oh, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone attack Larry for being a retailer. hm

 

Alot of comic retailers are hurting right now. I think online sales are keeping some going now. I have 3 shops locally one doesnt deal in comics exclusively and is still doing okay. Another comic shop that has been here for 20 years is on the verge of going out.

 

My 3rd shop is hilarious. He does $1 books and cleans up. He pays $.03 per book or so for 90s and sells them for $.25 or $1 books. Occasionally he gets a nice book in there and puts it on his wall. He keeps his overhead low and turns over alot of books. He even got to speak to Perlmutter and Bill Jemas a few years back after writing them about their policies toward retailers.

 

Now THAT is AWESOME! That's the way it should be done! Getting books into the most hands possible is the only solution comics have now (or, really, ever had.)

 

We can all go on and on about the 90s bust. For me I still blame the baseball guys that entered our hobby after they destroyed theirs. Cant anyone else remember all those baseball card dealers that came into our hobby in the 90s?

 

 

When I was driving my 1976 Mercury Bobcat around the SF Bay area, distributing comics in 1991-92, those were my boss' customers. Card shops. Definitely remember, but if the consumer wants it, what can you do?

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bababooey

bababooey

Posted
Posted
rantrant

 

Here is the thing. I love comic speculation. I love chewing over facts and dissecting the comic market looking for deals. It's part of the fun I enjoy in this hobby. And while I rarely deal with moderns because of the many points posted in this thread I find it appalling that some of you can't let other people enjoy the hobby in different ways.

 

Seriously people, speculating on moderns can sometimes be fun. And who the hell are you to tell others how to spend their damn money huh? Because you don't like what they do you feel the need to come over to these type of threads and just all over them. And why? Because you have some hang up about how things went down 20 years ago in an entirely different market? I just don't get it.

 

Bottom line, if people enjoy this type of thing then let them enjoy it. Why rain on their parade? No one asked you to join the parade in the first place.

 

Jerks.

 

No back to your regularly derailed modern speculation thread.

 

Take a chill pill, whett, and TRY to develop some discernment.

 

Fact: no one has told anyone else how they can and cannot spend their money. It's called "making a persuasive argument", and there are some damn valid reasons why speculating in this market is DETRIMENTAL to its health.

 

I know you can understand that, and will, someday, if only by default.

 

Fact: No one is stopping you from pre-ordering 100,000 copies of anything. In fact, you should do just that. It might just help somebody be able to publish some more.

 

Fact: This discusion has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PERSONAL PREFERENCE, OR WHAT SOMEONE "LIKES", so let's drop that silly argument, huh? Whether or not someone "enjoys" something is not a valid argument for its practice.

 

Fact: The comics market is in the condition it is now PRECISELY because of "what happened 20 years ago." Do you think everything exists in a vacuum? That there's no cause and effect? That what happened in the past has no bearing on what happens now? You'd be wrong on all three counts.

 

Finally: I don't give one flat DAMN if people speculate. *I* speculate all the time! By all means, PLEASE speculate! It's speculating on brand new comics that is the problem. The market is too fragile to treat it like your own personal ATM. And if you and others keep doing it, it will inevitably disappear altogether. We're down 99%+ from where it used to be. Determined to do away with that 1% are ya?

Wow - debating tactics from hell.

Fix yourself

Fact

Fact

Fact

Fact

My opinion :gossip: it's right and you'll know it soon. And if for some reason you choose not to agree with me it's all your fault when this industry dies.

:screwy:

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
rantrant

 

Here is the thing. I love comic speculation. I love chewing over facts and dissecting the comic market looking for deals. It's part of the fun I enjoy in this hobby. And while I rarely deal with moderns because of the many points posted in this thread I find it appalling that some of you can't let other people enjoy the hobby in different ways.

 

Seriously people, speculating on moderns can sometimes be fun. And who the hell are you to tell others how to spend their damn money huh? Because you don't like what they do you feel the need to come over to these type of threads and just all over them. And why? Because you have some hang up about how things went down 20 years ago in an entirely different market? I just don't get it.

 

Bottom line, if people enjoy this type of thing then let them enjoy it. Why rain on their parade? No one asked you to join the parade in the first place.

 

Jerks.

 

No back to your regularly derailed modern speculation thread.

 

Take a chill pill, whett, and TRY to develop some discernment.

 

Fact: no one has told anyone else how they can and cannot spend their money. It's called "making a persuasive argument", and there are some damn valid reasons why speculating in this market is DETRIMENTAL to its health.

 

I know you can understand that, and will, someday, if only by default.

 

Fact: No one is stopping you from pre-ordering 100,000 copies of anything. In fact, you should do just that. It might just help somebody be able to publish some more.

 

Fact: This discusion has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PERSONAL PREFERENCE, OR WHAT SOMEONE "LIKES", so let's drop that silly argument, huh? Whether or not someone "enjoys" something is not a valid argument for its practice.

 

Fact: The comics market is in the condition it is now PRECISELY because of "what happened 20 years ago." Do you think everything exists in a vacuum? That there's no cause and effect? That what happened in the past has no bearing on what happens now? You'd be wrong on all three counts.

 

Finally: I don't give one flat DAMN if people speculate. *I* speculate all the time! By all means, PLEASE speculate! It's speculating on brand new comics that is the problem. The market is too fragile to treat it like your own personal ATM. And if you and others keep doing it, it will inevitably disappear altogether. We're down 99%+ from where it used to be. Determined to do away with that 1% are ya?

Wow - debating tactics from hell.

Fix yourself

Fact

Fact

Fact

Fact

My opinion :gossip: it's right and you'll know it soon. And if for some reason you choose not to agree with me it's all your fault when this industry dies.

:screwy:

 

:acclaim:

 

Regardless of your opinion about my "tactics", you cannot dispute any of these facts.

 

So quit whining about the form, and stick to the substance, eh?

 

You newbs and your utterly pointless attempts at "correcting" the way that other people post, simply because you don't approve. Too funny.

 

lol

 

(thumbs u

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bababooey

bababooey

Posted
Posted
rantrant

 

Here is the thing. I love comic speculation. I love chewing over facts and dissecting the comic market looking for deals. It's part of the fun I enjoy in this hobby. And while I rarely deal with moderns because of the many points posted in this thread I find it appalling that some of you can't let other people enjoy the hobby in different ways.

 

Seriously people, speculating on moderns can sometimes be fun. And who the hell are you to tell others how to spend their damn money huh? Because you don't like what they do you feel the need to come over to these type of threads and just all over them. And why? Because you have some hang up about how things went down 20 years ago in an entirely different market? I just don't get it.

 

Bottom line, if people enjoy this type of thing then let them enjoy it. Why rain on their parade? No one asked you to join the parade in the first place.

 

Jerks.

 

No back to your regularly derailed modern speculation thread.

 

Take a chill pill, whett, and TRY to develop some discernment.

 

Fact: no one has told anyone else how they can and cannot spend their money. It's called "making a persuasive argument", and there are some damn valid reasons why speculating in this market is DETRIMENTAL to its health.

 

I know you can understand that, and will, someday, if only by default.

 

Fact: No one is stopping you from pre-ordering 100,000 copies of anything. In fact, you should do just that. It might just help somebody be able to publish some more.

 

Fact: This discusion has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PERSONAL PREFERENCE, OR WHAT SOMEONE "LIKES", so let's drop that silly argument, huh? Whether or not someone "enjoys" something is not a valid argument for its practice.

 

Fact: The comics market is in the condition it is now PRECISELY because of "what happened 20 years ago." Do you think everything exists in a vacuum? That there's no cause and effect? That what happened in the past has no bearing on what happens now? You'd be wrong on all three counts.

 

Finally: I don't give one flat DAMN if people speculate. *I* speculate all the time! By all means, PLEASE speculate! It's speculating on brand new comics that is the problem. The market is too fragile to treat it like your own personal ATM. And if you and others keep doing it, it will inevitably disappear altogether. We're down 99%+ from where it used to be. Determined to do away with that 1% are ya?

Wow - debating tactics from hell.

Fix yourself

Fact

Fact

Fact

Fact

My opinion :gossip: it's right and you'll know it soon. And if for some reason you choose not to agree with me it's all your fault when this industry dies.

:screwy:

 

:acclaim:

 

Regardless of your opinion about my "tactics", you cannot dispute any of these facts.

 

So quit whining about the form, and stick to the substance, eh?

 

You newbs and your utterly pointless attempts at "correcting" the way that other people post, simply because you don't approve. Too funny.

 

lol

 

(thumbs u

You talk about this in such ridiculous exaggerations that it makes any discussion pointless.

Certainly dollars paid to dealers, who pay distributors, who work for publishers has more of a positive impact on the overall industry than the "aftermarket" - I'd guess less than 35% of posters here buy moderns, yet the ones in modern do because they enjoy it in whatever way they choose. Let them talk.

 

As far as using the forum to hype your product - your pimp hand is strong wordy one.

:whistle:

From ebay first

http://cgi.ebay.ca/PRIME-1-GOLD-Holographic-Ultraverse-Extr-Rare-/190554715160?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5df23418

And from "hardest to find Copper thread" - a thread that you started (thumbs u

Dunno if I posted this yet, but this is the rarest book Ultraverse ever printed.

 

001-59.jpg

 

About 200 printed, then they all vanished. The other golds show up now and again, but the Prime has shown up once in the last 5 years.

 

 

Maybe this will help you sell this 90's drek. (thumbs u

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
rantrant

 

Here is the thing. I love comic speculation. I love chewing over facts and dissecting the comic market looking for deals. It's part of the fun I enjoy in this hobby. And while I rarely deal with moderns because of the many points posted in this thread I find it appalling that some of you can't let other people enjoy the hobby in different ways.

 

Seriously people, speculating on moderns can sometimes be fun. And who the hell are you to tell others how to spend their damn money huh? Because you don't like what they do you feel the need to come over to these type of threads and just all over them. And why? Because you have some hang up about how things went down 20 years ago in an entirely different market? I just don't get it.

 

Bottom line, if people enjoy this type of thing then let them enjoy it. Why rain on their parade? No one asked you to join the parade in the first place.

 

Jerks.

 

No back to your regularly derailed modern speculation thread.

 

Take a chill pill, whett, and TRY to develop some discernment.

 

Fact: no one has told anyone else how they can and cannot spend their money. It's called "making a persuasive argument", and there are some damn valid reasons why speculating in this market is DETRIMENTAL to its health.

 

I know you can understand that, and will, someday, if only by default.

 

Fact: No one is stopping you from pre-ordering 100,000 copies of anything. In fact, you should do just that. It might just help somebody be able to publish some more.

 

Fact: This discusion has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PERSONAL PREFERENCE, OR WHAT SOMEONE "LIKES", so let's drop that silly argument, huh? Whether or not someone "enjoys" something is not a valid argument for its practice.

 

Fact: The comics market is in the condition it is now PRECISELY because of "what happened 20 years ago." Do you think everything exists in a vacuum? That there's no cause and effect? That what happened in the past has no bearing on what happens now? You'd be wrong on all three counts.

 

Finally: I don't give one flat DAMN if people speculate. *I* speculate all the time! By all means, PLEASE speculate! It's speculating on brand new comics that is the problem. The market is too fragile to treat it like your own personal ATM. And if you and others keep doing it, it will inevitably disappear altogether. We're down 99%+ from where it used to be. Determined to do away with that 1% are ya?

Wow - debating tactics from hell.

Fix yourself

Fact

Fact

Fact

Fact

My opinion :gossip: it's right and you'll know it soon. And if for some reason you choose not to agree with me it's all your fault when this industry dies.

:screwy:

 

:acclaim:

 

Regardless of your opinion about my "tactics", you cannot dispute any of these facts.

 

So quit whining about the form, and stick to the substance, eh?

 

You newbs and your utterly pointless attempts at "correcting" the way that other people post, simply because you don't approve. Too funny.

 

lol

 

(thumbs u

You talk about this in such ridiculous exaggerations that it makes any discussion pointless.

 

That's your opinion, and you're certainly welcome to it, but it doesn't make it an accurate characterization. The FACT remains: you cannot dispute these facts, regardless of how much you want to complain about the way they are presented.

 

If it makes the discussion pointless...why are you discussing it? hm

 

Certainly dollars paid to dealers, who pay distributors, who work for publishers has more of a positive impact on the overall industry than the "aftermarket" - I'd guess less than 35% of posters here buy moderns, yet the ones in modern do because they enjoy it in whatever way they choose.

 

I'm sorry, but what bearing does the "aftermarket" have on this discussion? We're talking about new books.

 

Let them talk.

 

No one is prohibited from posting anything they want, as much as they want, within the rules of the forum.

 

Easy, cheesy.

 

As far as using the forum to hype your product - you pimp hand is strong wordy one.

:whistle:

 

What on EARTH are you talking about...? Who was talking about "using the forum to hype your product"...?

 

Did you think I was chastising Larry about pimping his variants here...?

 

You have INCORRECTLY comprehended what has been posted. Don't worry, though, it's a sport of Olympian levels around here. Nobody was talking about using the forum to hype their stuff. Where you got that is anybody's guess.

 

But hey, thanks for the advertising!

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

Whether or not someone "enjoys" something is not a valid argument for its practice

 

On the contrary, when you're talking about that person's own money (i.e. mine) it's the most valid argument of all.

 

No, that's not what we were talking about. You have plucked that one sentence out of its context and failed to understand it.

 

Let me explain it to you using different words: Just because someone enjoys an activity, the fact of their enjoyment isn't necessarily justification for that activity to be engaged in, especially if that activity is detrimental to others.

 

Example: some people enjoy robbing banks. They love it. It's thrilling, and has great financial benefits when done properly. Unfortunately, it's also detrimental to others. So whether or not bank robbers enjoy robbing banks isn't a valid argument to rob banks.

 

In a similar way, just because someone enjoys speculating in new comics, it doesn't mean that that enjoyment in and of itself justifies the activity.

 

It's just an example to illustrate the principle, so please don't anyone squawk about me comparing new comics speculation to robbing banks.

 

 

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sakaridis

sakaridis

Posted
Posted

Whether or not someone "enjoys" something is not a valid argument for its practice

 

On the contrary, when you're talking about that person's own money (i.e. mine) it's the most valid argument of all.

 

No, that's not what we were talking about. You have plucked that one sentence out of its context and failed to understand it.

 

Let me explain it to you using different words: Just because someone enjoys an activity, the fact of their enjoyment isn't necessarily justification for that activity to be engaged in, especially if that activity is detrimental to others.

 

Example: some people enjoy robbing banks. They love it. It's thrilling, and has great financial benefits when done properly. Unfortunately, it's also detrimental to others. So whether or not bank robbers enjoy robbing banks isn't a valid argument to rob banks.

 

In a similar way, just because someone enjoys speculating in new comics, it doesn't mean that that enjoyment in and of itself justifies the activity.

 

It's just an example to illustrate the principle, so please don't anyone squawk about me comparing new comics speculation to robbing banks.

 

Surprisingly, no one yet has replied to RMA's post with "so you're comparing speculating on moderns with robbing banks!" :o

 

There may be hope yet... hm

 

Seriously, RMA's advice in this thread is golden! Especially for people who weren't actively collecting in the 90s. (Those who were, should know better anyway :P )

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