Date stamps

[Gotham Kid]

Damn !!! ...that's quite a pantheon of Pedigreed books you have there. Do you register your books in the registry? Would love to see them.

[warlocke]

Damn !!! ...that's quite a pantheon of Pedigreed books you have there. Do you register your books in the registry? Would love to see them.

 

I do. :8-) They all have photos, and the pedigrees are noted as such. That's all I've had time to do. The photos are whatever I got from the seller, so some are better than others.

[Gotham Kid]

F**kin'-A !!! Gonna be "out" for 30 minutes or so...BRB boys, got a registry profile to look over.

[Gotham Kid]

Love the Comic Cavalcade and kudos for top honors this year for that set !!

[warlocke]

Love the Comic Cavalcade and kudos for top honors this year for that set !!

 

Thanks, Peter! I'm looking to finish the superhero run, but I can't find anything in high grade for the right price. I think that series is highly underrated. Sure, it might not be well written, but you won't find much from the '40s that was.

[FFB]

Regardless of whether GSX1 was a MHII book or not, there have been hordes of them found, including the ones that Heritage slabbed and sold (tons of 9.8s). It is not a scarce book in HG by any stretch of the imagination.

 

One thing that Warlocke is likely correct about is that a ton of the 9.8s are crack and resubs. For a long time there was a huge incentive to do that with GSX1.

 

Whatever the case, it is a great book to have notwithstanding the grade.

 

I only see that Heritage sold four 9.8s. I wouldn't call four a "horde" or a "ton". I wouldn't take my money back for the copies that I have, either. I think the perception that this book is readily available in a 9.8 is flawed. I might be wrong. I'm wrong all the time. It comes with my profession. We'll find out, though.

 

By the way, cracking and resubbing is ridiculous. The CGC ought to know when it's being done. Surely there are attributes, albeit perhaps small ones, of every high grade comic they've previously graded that could be checked relatively quickly (e.g. on Page 6 there is a pencil mark on the upper right corner... or something). Maybe they could just ask the submitter. I don't like that the census numbers are being inflated. For especially rare comics, like Golden Age or Silver Age DCs, the census needs to be accurate.

 

The thing is, they don't care. They like crack and resubs. That's more grading fees for CGC. They've never tried to discourage it, nor would they. CGC is a business after all and profit is their reason for being. Which is not to say they're evil - they just don't care if people crack and resub.

 

I am sure they would like for the census to reflect accurately when a book has been cracked out and resubbed, but there is no feasible way to do it. They don't have time to scan through all 5 million previously graded copies of whatever book they are grading at a given moment to make sure that this pencil mark or that pencil mark was where they see it now. You think turnaround times are slow now? They would slow to a crawl if CGC tried to do anything like this.

 

There must be a solution. Unfortunately, I don't have one, because I don't know how the grading process exactly works. I'm really just talking about rare and/or potentially ultra high grade keys (not "5 million", but more like twenty or so). You can tell whether something is worth meticulously grading by looking at the cover in most cases.

 

Again, they don't care. They certainly could do it for rare and expensive books, but they want those books cracked and resubbed. The grading fees for expensive books generate a lot of profit on a per-book basis.

 

If a person who cracks and resubs the book wants the census to be correct, all they have to do is send back the old label and CGC will remove it from the census. I think they give a discount on your next grading fee if you return the label. A lot of people do this for expensive books because it is in their interest to have the census reflect correct numbers. The graders don't know you sent the label back when they grade the book so there's no disincentive, but those who are worried about it can send back the label after the regrading is done.

[warlocke]

Sending back the label sounds like a nice idea. I hope everyone is doing it. I wonder how long people can wait to send in the labels, though. I could see some folks keeping old labels long enough to drive down prices on seemingly "common" books before buying up those books. The same strategy would probably also work for rarer books. I wonder how many different Action #1s or Tec #27s would actually sell for over a $1 million.

[FFB]

GSX#1 was one of the books found in NM/MT in large quantities by Chuck Rozanski when he bought the "Mile High II" warehouse collection. There are probably more than a hundred out there in NM/MT. Fortunately the demand has always been extremely high and will likely continue to be so.

 

By the way, Peter, nice book.

 

Thanks. And that tidbit of info on GSX is also much appreciated. Sure hope the numbers for 9.8s do die down...

 

Are you sure that it was large quantities of GSX #1? Chuck's journal said that he found many copies of X-Men Annual #1, but that's a different book (as you know). Below is the obligatory reference (scientist here):

Tales from the Database

 

Don't get me wrong. I want everyone to enjoy the story in GSX #1, or at least the historical significance of the comic. Yet, I don't want ~ 100 folks to have the original issue in the same grade as I do. The market is simply too small to keep prices high in that case, and I'm simply too poor to lose my butt on one issue and stay married at this point. :8-) I bet some of those 9.8s are resubbed 9.6s, which probably haven't been taken out of the census as 9.6s. Whatever the case, my fingers are crossed.

 

Now that you mention it, I may have been thinking of that book. It's been a while since I looked at the old MH II ads. Maybe I'll email Chuck and ask.

 

Here is Chuck's response:

 

Howdy Scott!

 

You are correct that we had a large quantity of X-Men Annual #1, but the seller pulled all of the Giant-Sized #1's before the sale. There may have been one or two copies remaining, but I doubt it. As regards how many were originally in the deal, I suspect upwards of 300 copies, as that was a typical count per book throughout the collection. That having been said, most would have graded out at Fine/Very Fine by today's standards, as they were newsstand returns.

 

All the best!

 

Chuck

[warlocke]

GSX#1 was one of the books found in NM/MT in large quantities by Chuck Rozanski when he bought the "Mile High II" warehouse collection. There are probably more than a hundred out there in NM/MT. Fortunately the demand has always been extremely high and will likely continue to be so.

 

By the way, Peter, nice book.

 

Thanks. And that tidbit of info on GSX is also much appreciated. Sure hope the numbers for 9.8s do die down...

 

Are you sure that it was large quantities of GSX #1? Chuck's journal said that he found many copies of X-Men Annual #1, but that's a different book (as you know). Below is the obligatory reference (scientist here):

Tales from the Database

 

Don't get me wrong. I want everyone to enjoy the story in GSX #1, or at least the historical significance of the comic. Yet, I don't want ~ 100 folks to have the original issue in the same grade as I do. The market is simply too small to keep prices high in that case, and I'm simply too poor to lose my butt on one issue and stay married at this point. :8-) I bet some of those 9.8s are resubbed 9.6s, which probably haven't been taken out of the census as 9.6s. Whatever the case, my fingers are crossed.

 

Now that you mention it, I may have been thinking of that book. It's been a while since I looked at the old MH II ads. Maybe I'll email Chuck and ask.

 

Here is Chuck's response:

 

Howdy Scott!

 

You are correct that we had a large quantity of X-Men Annual #1, but the seller pulled all of the Giant-Sized #1's before the sale. There may have been one or two copies remaining, but I doubt it. As regards how many were originally in the deal, I suspect upwards of 300 copies, as that was a typical count per book throughout the collection. That having been said, most would have graded out at Fine/Very Fine by today's standards, as they were newsstand returns.

 

All the best!

 

Chuck

 

Thank you, Scott! That's awesome news. It was really cool of Chuck to respond, as well. The seller was smart to pull the GSX #1s. I'm relieved to hear that they weren't high grade, though. That means they are best used for reading, which is better for everyone here. :8-) Cheers!

[etanick]

here are the stat on 9.8 since the birth of CGC. I am certain there a lot more 9.8 and that number will keep climbing higher in my opinion. I have a 9.6 myself...not that I wish for the book to depreciate but the sheer amount of 9.8 also has to do with the all white cover which is easy to press out many flaws since a lot of creases didn't break colors. The demand is there but the book has dropped from $10k to $6k in the past 2 years for 9.8 and I don't see this trend reversing any times soon...just my 2 cents.

 

2001 3

2002 3

2003 6

2004 8

2005 10

2006 10

2007 11

2008 17

2009 32

2010 50

8/2011 59

[warlocke]

here are the stat on 9.8 since the birth of CGC. I am certain there a lot more 9.8 and that number will keep climbing higher in my opinion. I have a 9.6 myself...not that I wish for the book to depreciate but the sheer amount of 9.8 also has to do with the all white cover which is easy to press out many flaws since a lot of creases didn't break colors. The demand is there but the book has dropped from $10k to $6k in the past 2 years for 9.8 and I don't see this trend reversing any times soon...just my 2 cents.

 

2001 3

2002 3

2003 6

2004 8

2005 10

2006 10

2007 11

2008 17

2009 32

2010 50

8/2011 59

 

Yes, the number of 9.8s has been rising and probably will continue to rise. However, the number of all CGC graded GSX #1s has been rising. Interestingly, the average grade for this issue has actually gone down a little since the first copies were reported for the census in July 2001 from a 7.98 to a 7.46. All of the data are available at the following link:

 

Greg Holland's CGC Site

 

These data suggest that pressing frequency for this issue hasn't changed since the CGC started grading them, or that pressing hasn't really made a difference in the average grade. I'm telling you guys. A major reason for there being so many copies of this issue in the CGC census is simply its popularity. 59 9.8s can't be that many, relative to how many X-Men and/or Wolverine fans there are. If you're going to spend thousands of dollars on one of these copies, then you might as well get a 9.8. No one will be buying any of my copies for $6K, so factor that into your appraisals. I appreciate hearing your opinion, though. Thanks for the research!

[etanick]

If the demands of all grades exceeded the supplies, then prices will rise. Last I check, on any given days, you can find just about every grades you want for sale/auction.

 

better yet, one can pick the right 9.4 or 9.6 for $1k to $2k and pressed it up..that is what I would do if I was chasing a 9.8 here.

 

here is my 9.6 near perfect centering copy which can be a 9.8 on a good day at CGC if I resub.

[warlocke]

If the demands of all grades exceeded the supplies, then prices will rise. Last I check, on any given days, you can find just about every grades you want for sale/auction.

 

better yet, one can pick the right 9.4 or 9.6 for $1k to $2k and pressed it up..that is what I would do if I was chasing a 9.8 here.

 

here is my 9.6 near perfect centering copy which can be a 9.8 on a good day at CGC if I resub.

 

Well, everyone isn't as clever as you. Apparently, I'm not, if it's so easy to get a 9.8 by pressing. You possibly could press your book up to a 9.8, as it is a very nice copy, if the bends on the left corners would come out. That being said, my copies are nicer. I probably also paid a lot more for mine than you paid for yours, so perhaps I am the schmuck here.

 

Just out of curiosity, what's the bottom price you would take for your copy? I bet it's quite a bit more than you paid. Am I right?

[warlocke]

Oh yeah... I just noticed. Wolverine's claws are almost, but not totally, visible. I think that makes a difference, particularly among buyers who are paying attention. I bet a good number of those 9.8s are not perfectly centered.

[etanick]

bottom line price? don't know and I don't care really since I am not selling.

 

I think I paid around $1000 (could be more)for my copy back in 2003. Will the high grade supplies of 9.6 and 9.8 drive the price down to that level in the future? I don't have a crystal ball but I am not buying any more copies that is for sure. One copy is enough for me.

 

Heck in hindsight if it was all about appreciation, I would have done better invested that money in the market with the rest of my money because I would have done much better.

[etanick]

Oh yeah... I just noticed. Wolverine's claws are almost, but not totally, visible. I think that makes a difference, particularly among buyers who are paying attention. I bet a good number of those 9.8s are not perfectly centered.

 

thus I used the term "near perfect centering"

 

the centering of any GS #1 has little to do with the centering since it is white cover as I mentioned.

[warlocke]

bottom line price? don't know and I don't care really since I am not selling.

 

I think I paid around $1000 (could be more)for my copy back in 2003. Will the high grade supplies of 9.6 and 9.8 drive the price down to that level in the future? I don't have a crystal ball but I am not buying any more copies that is for sure. One copy is enough for me.

 

Heck in hindsight if it was all about appreciation, I would have done better invested that money in the market with the rest of my money because I would have done much better.

 

You mean the stock market? If so, then you must be Warren Buffett. I don't think your comic will get any cheaper. If it does, then at least you won't be doing as badly as I will be.

[warlocke]

Oh yeah... I just noticed. Wolverine's claws are almost, but not totally, visible. I think that makes a difference, particularly among buyers who are paying attention. I bet a good number of those 9.8s are not perfectly centered.

 

thus I used the term "near perfect centering"

 

the centering of any GS #1 has little to do with the centering since it is white cover as I mentioned.

 

You lost me on that second sentence.

[etanick]

Oh yeah... I just noticed. Wolverine's claws are almost, but not totally, visible. I think that makes a difference, particularly among buyers who are paying attention. I bet a good number of those 9.8s are not perfectly centered.

 

thus I used the term "near perfect centering"

 

the centering of any GS #1 has little to do with the centering since it is white cover as I mentioned.

 

You lost me on that second sentence.

 

I meant the centering of any GS #1 has little to do with the grade.

[warlocke]

Oh yeah... I just noticed. Wolverine's claws are almost, but not totally, visible. I think that makes a difference, particularly among buyers who are paying attention. I bet a good number of those 9.8s are not perfectly centered.

 

thus I used the term "near perfect centering"

 

the centering of any GS #1 has little to do with the centering since it is white cover as I mentioned.

 

You lost me on that second sentence.

 

I meant the centering of any GS #1 has little to do with the grade.

 

Oh. Yes, I agree with you. I think the centering of the comic has something, albeit perhaps only a little, to do with the market value, though. That's what I meant. You don't agree? I think the centering on your copy is sufficient to bring top dollar. There are some ugly copies out there, though.