Why Sketch Covers?

[MedicAR]

Now....I want to say...Jon is right.....traditional OA will usually sell for more than a blank cover....that simply goes without saying...

 

Let me ask THIS question....if its the SAME quality sketch....one on a piece of backing board etc, or one on a blank cover, that has been CGC SS'd...which would sell for more?

 

It really does go both ways.....About 5 months ago, I got a blank cover done by Chris Guiarruso...I think it cost me about 20 bucks....I got it back, needed some cash and threw it up on Ebay...it sold for almost 160!!!!!!! I was SHOCKED.....

 

Now, would that SAME sketch, if it was on a simple piece of paper, sell for that amount? Dont think so...

 

But....

 

I think there are some examples that the opposite might be true...people are welcome to chime in....

 

But again....the whole point of this thread it to really find out why people want the CGC SS blanks....so far, I think many of you brought up some great points....

 

No question, CGC'd sketches will most definitely bring more. The only exception that I can think of would be those that are larger than CGC can handle. If you're looking at the same size and same quality on a CGC'd sketch and a raw, CGC will bring in more all day long.

[Par2ch]

I honestly can't think of an established artist where there sketch covers are worth half much as a cover they did. If anyone can find me an example please do.

 

John Byrne (New Avengers Blank) IIRC Cos paid close to 4K for that one of a kind beaut.

 

 

 

I have an interior page by Byrne that's almost 3 times what that sketch cover cost...and it's not even in the top ten of Byrne pages.

 

Jon posed the challenge of a blank being sold for half the value of a cover, nowhere did he mention that it had to be one of the best. I am sure there are some obsure Byrne covers that do not sell for more then $2K

[comix4fun]

Now....I want to say...Jon is right.....traditional OA will usually sell for more than a blank cover....that simply goes without saying...

 

Let me ask THIS question....if its the SAME quality sketch....one on a piece of backing board etc, or one on a blank cover, that has been CGC SS'd...which would sell for more?

 

It really does go both ways.....About 5 months ago, I got a blank cover done by Chris Guiarruso...I think it cost me about 20 bucks....I got it back, needed some cash and threw it up on Ebay...it sold for almost 160!!!!!!! I was SHOCKED.....

 

Now, would that SAME sketch, if it was on a simple piece of paper, sell for that amount? Dont think so...

 

.

 

 

That's not what Bill was saying. Bill said sketch covers would take over OA. OA, in the vast majority of cases is not a doodle on a backing board.

 

However, a nice sketch cover, certified, will cost you the cost of the Blank, the cost of the sketch, and the cost of the certification, plus shipping...so it better damn well sell for more than the same sketch on a backing board.

[comix4fun]

I honestly can't think of an established artist where there sketch covers are worth half much as a cover they did. If anyone can find me an example please do.

 

John Byrne (New Avengers Blank) IIRC Cos paid close to 4K for that one of a kind beaut.

 

 

 

I have an interior page by Byrne that's almost 3 times what that sketch cover cost...and it's not even in the top ten of Byrne pages.

 

Jon posed the challenge of a blank being sold for half the value of a cover, nowhere did he mention that it had to be one of the best. I am sure there are some obsure Byrne covers that do not sell for more then $2K

 

 

John's cover commissions sell for 2k so it's hard to say.

 

However, is it really an accurate comparison to compare Byrne's BEST sketch cover to his WORST published OA?

 

Pieces of similar quality, by the same artist, you will have a hard time finding where the sketch cover will sell for, and retain, a higher price.

 

Take a peek at some of those Hulk, Wolverine, Spider-man 100 sketch cover books, they may have raked in a ton at auction....I have seen a bunch resell and it's sea of red ink for the sellers.

[jonjesper]

I was talking to Sean Harmon about this and he brought up a good point.

You can't compare OA (in the sense of published pages) to Sketch Covers.

You can compare (as I believe Cos was saying) sketch covers to paper commissions. I would agree that you can definitely see a comparison that is much closer in that vein.

But as to OA (again, published pages) maybe there is no comparison.

 

And yes, Par2ch is right. I did open it up to any comparison but was not thinking I would get the best of the best vs the lowest possible, I was looking for something comparable?

 

Again, I love sketch covers. I am not trying to disrespect them. I love mine, they are displayed all over, so please those of you that this is your collecting focus, don't think I am against them, I am definitely not!!!!

 

 

[jonjesper]

I honestly can't think of an established artist where there sketch covers are worth half much as a cover they did. If anyone can find me an example please do.

 

John Byrne (New Avengers Blank) IIRC Cos paid close to 4K for that one of a kind beaut.

 

 

 

I have an interior page by Byrne that's almost 3 times what that sketch cover cost...and it's not even in the top ten of Byrne pages.

 

Jon posed the challenge of a blank being sold for half the value of a cover, nowhere did he mention that it had to be one of the best. I am sure there are some obsure Byrne covers that do not sell for more then $2K

 

Dan, just to be fair, not trying to compare some NextMen cover to a sketch cover. I was attempting to compare the best (which was Cos paying $4k) to the best from that artist.

[MedicAR]

Take a peek at some of those Hulk, Wolverine, Spider-man 100 sketch cover books, they may have raked in a ton at auction....I have seen a bunch resell and it's sea of red ink for the sellers.

 

I've noticed that, but at the same time, you have to look at what the auctions were. Again, if I had the money, most of those would have gone much higher.

 

I'm willing to pay more than I would for items if it goes to a good cause and the HERO Initiative is one of my absolute favorites. CBLDF only comes in ahead of it. So I'll gladly go much higher for something that benefits them than I would when someone flips it. I also wouldn't flip them unless I was in dire straights.

[A-DONIS]

I wish I had something to add to his discussion, but simply put, sketch covers is something that I like. As a collector, I can appreciate it more. Although OA, by both size and scale, speaks for itself, sketch covers tend to make more sense and continuity for a collector like me.

 

Yes, sketch covers will probably never gain or demand the value that OA does, but can OA be certified? Even a page from a comic cannot be slabbed. It cannot contain those simple words "Signed and Sketch by...on..." that a sketch cover can. That plastic frame and yellow paper add something that OA cannot.

 

OA cannot be shown the way sketch covers are shown and showcased in offices, homes, and shops around the world.

 

So next time you ask 'Why Sketch Covers?" ask "Why not?"

 

 

[comix4fun]

I was talking to Sean Harmon about this and he brought up a good point.

You can't compare OA (in the sense of published pages) to Sketch Covers.

You can compare (as I believe Cos was saying) sketch covers to paper commissions. I would agree that you can definitely see a comparison that is much closer in that vein.

But as to OA (again, published pages) maybe there is no comparison.

 

And yes, Par2ch is right. I did open it up to any comparison but was not thinking I would get the best of the best vs the lowest possible, I was looking for something comparable?

 

Again, I love sketch covers. I am not trying to disrespect them. I love mine, they are displayed all over, so please those of you that this is your collecting focus, don't think I am against them, I am definitely not!!!!

 

 

 

 

I have a bunch of sketch covers. I think they are great. They are a different area of the hobby.

 

However I don't like them because CGC certified them, I like them for the artwork itself. I have been collecting OA for over 20 years. I would be terrified if I was active in a hobby and entirely dependent on a 3rd party to tell me if my stuff was real.

 

Frankly, on some of the more intricate pieces I would hate to have that case between me and the artwork.

 

As for "paper commissions" I have over a hundred of them. On most of them I have worked directly with the artists to achieve a vision or perspective on the piece. It's a great experience to work with talented people you respect.

 

I think Sean mentioned that about why he likes sketch covers...the personal touch. For commissioned pieces, I agree, that's great.

 

But if given the choice as to size and medium, I will take art board I know will last 50 years or more over whatever those sketch covers are made out of (i.e. the lowest bidder at the publisher).

 

For the visually motivated

 

I could have had this:

 

 

 

But I got this:

 

[littlebill]

i guess maybe i should have made myself clear. i am no insufficiently_thoughtful_person. if you are talking about oa published work fom the 50's 60's or even 70's for that matter its hard to compete. it is also wrong to compare.

 

 

 

to compare the two you would really have to wait until 20 or 30 years have passed and the sketch covers have been around for a while. who is to say what a romita sr sketch on a blank would sell for in thirty years. we can guess.

 

 

 

when someone talks about the value of a sketch cover they got yesterday at a con and then someone wants to say " well it isnt worth as much as oa that adams did in the 60's. come on now. give me a break.

[A-DONIS]

You can't compare the two. OA and sketch covers are two animals from different times.

[A-DONIS]

I wish I had something to add to his discussion, but simply put, sketch covers is something that I like. As a collector, I can appreciate it more. Although OA, by both size and scale, speaks for itself, sketch covers tend to make more sense and continuity for a collector like me.

 

Yes, sketch covers will probably never gain or demand the value that OA does, but can OA be certified? Even a page from a comic cannot be slabbed. It cannot contain those simple words "Signed and Sketch by...on..." that a sketch cover can. That plastic frame and yellow paper add something that OA cannot.

 

OA cannot be shown the way sketch covers are shown and showcased in offices, homes, and shops around the world.

 

So next time you ask 'Why Sketch Covers?" ask "Why not?"

 

 

I'm going to quote myself here.

[comix4fun]

You can't compare the two. OA and sketch covers are two animals from different times.

 

 

 

Sketch covers ARE OA...it's all part of the same hobby. I guess I am missing the divide in the discussion.

 

The CGC cert thing is nice to have until the person collecting them has built enough personal experience to render the cert redundant.

 

Then you are left with the artwork itself. Single figures are great, but I think everyone will agree the sketch cover space is a limited canvas. When you start getting creative even 11x17 is too small. So it's nice to be able to really get imaginative with artists you are working with.

 

At a certain point, the thing you think is the best thing about sketch covers, the ability to show them off and carry them around, will swing back to OA. That will happen when the favorite sketch covers become so large in number that they fill a short box or several short boxes. Then the though may strike that "Sweet Jeebus, I could carry all these images in a single portfolio weighing one tenth bulk of these slabs."

 

As for different animals from different times...the Romita piece I have was just done in the last 2 years.

 

 

 

 

[HYDRA]

Sketch covers rock

 

Some die hards will cut throats though. Sad but true, I learned this the hard way

 

I've been saying I was going to shift to OA but I found a home

 

The yellow label, the elusive blank/artist, the ideas to stay original...gotta love it!

 

+1

 

Yellow Label of Authenticity

 

The awesome labeled new marvel blanks

 

The possibilities and ideas i come up with on these blanks are ENDLESS!

[Pirate]

Now....I want to say...Jon is right.....traditional OA will usually sell for more than a blank cover....that simply goes without saying...

 

Let me ask THIS question....if its the SAME quality sketch....one on a piece of backing board etc, or one on a blank cover, that has been CGC SS'd...which would sell for more?

 

It really does go both ways.....About 5 months ago, I got a blank cover done by Chris Guiarruso...I think it cost me about 20 bucks....I got it back, needed some cash and threw it up on Ebay...it sold for almost 160!!!!!!! I was SHOCKED.....

 

Now, would that SAME sketch, if it was on a simple piece of paper, sell for that amount? Dont think so...

 

But....

 

I think there are some examples that the opposite might be true...people are welcome to chime in....

 

But again....the whole point of this thread it to really find out why people want the CGC SS blanks....so far, I think many of you brought up some great points....

 

No question, CGC'd sketches will most definitely bring more. The only exception that I can think of would be those that are larger than CGC can handle. If you're looking at the same size and same quality on a CGC'd sketch and a raw, CGC will bring in more all day long.

 

how many people draw on 5x5 usually? I will tell you if you have a bolland sketch cover say compared to a 8.5 x 11 sketch of same character, then the 8.5x11 will out draw it. The SS market is such a small percentage and I would guess most OA collectors would rather have the sketch than joker on an avengers cover.

[Pirate]

Sketch covers rock

 

Some die hards will cut throats though. Sad but true, I learned this the hard way

 

I've been saying I was going to shift to OA but I found a home

 

The yellow label, the elusive blank/artist, the ideas to stay original...gotta love it!

 

+1

 

Yellow Label of Authenticity

 

The awesome labeled new marvel blanks

 

The possibilities and ideas i come up with on these blanks are ENDLESS!

 

 

Got from artist himself-authentic

 

Nice solid paper that will fit nicely into a portfolio or a frame that will protect it from dangerous light.

 

Endless commission possibilities on paper

[AKA Rick]

I think Sketch Covers are great for collectors.

 

I question if they provide a solid investment as far as for what prices and rates they currently go for versus what you could do with that same money and buy today to resell tomorrow.

 

The thing that is appealing about CGC'ed Sketch Covers, so not just a sketch cover, is that it is authenticated and has all of the provenance, as far as a historical record of the background of the piece with the date and location, which is also nostalgic. I also like the CGC slabbing because it creates a nice collectible that is ready to display and basically has all of the information on it.

 

What I don't really care about with the CGC sketch covers is the actual grade on the book. To me it's "foreground" vs "background" and in this case, the foreground is the sketch art, and the background is the book itself and interrior. I know a lot of artists manhandle the paper they draw and there are inherent smudges, which is fine. The last thing an artist needs is a nit-picky fussy collector getting worked up over the way a comic is handled and drawn on that gets in the way of the creative process. To me, the same goes with the "Signature Series" - an autograph is an aftermarket condition flaw to purests, so I think having a signature in any grade is worthwhile if you collect autographs. In fact, if I had a 9.6 Fantastic Four #1 and a 1.5 Fantastic Four #1, and had a chance to have Stan Lee sign one, I'd have the lower grade signed and keep the near pristine one in the as best to original condition as possible.

 

I think the issue of size is sometimes not relevant, since whether on 11 x 17 or 5 x 7, a lot of artists utlize the time and detailing more so than feel the obligation to fill up space, so in other words, I've seen a lot of inferrior work done on 11 x 17 and I've seen some really detailed work done on sketch cards or sketch covers.

 

I'll say this 'tho, I do admit, sketch cards for the most part are a hobby fad and the valuation if build to crumble. The card companies seed these inserts as chase cards, touting "1 of a kind" - - but, heck, all original art is "1 of a kind" - - and most of these card companies hire artists of lower profile or are unpublished artists, and without naming names, a lot of 'em have a whole "flash in the pan" vibe to their style yet their cards command more than I beleive they could recover for it in let's say 10 years. Again, if it's for a collector, more power to 'em, let them collect. If as an investment, I think it's a flawed retirement strategy.

 

The one thing about sketch covers (the ungraded ones not slabbed) is that they are easy for many collectors to store.

 

So, I am neutral on the position of Sketch Covers as far as questioning why people pursue them or get commissions on them. I am "pro" collector on it and "con" investor as far as my opinon from a valuation standpoint.

 

Sketch covers are still just sketches, original art "yes", one of a kind "yes" - but can an artist recreate that same piece or do one better, "YES" - so, it's just commissioned artwork on a piece of paper - I don't think the book itself or condition has any link to the value. I'd rather have a 1.5 torn in the back cover with coffee stains sketch cover by Adam Hughes over a 9.8 sketch cover by "name that random artist nobody really cares about."

 

That's my opinion at least.

 

 

[HYDRA]

Rule # 1 Only get characters on there respected blank covers

 

Rule # 2 Dont ask for DC characters on Marvel blanks

 

 

Rule # 3 Save money cause artists charge WAY more for 11*17's

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spideyfan88]

Now....I want to say...Jon is right.....traditional OA will usually sell for more than a blank cover....that simply goes without saying...

 

Let me ask THIS question....if its the SAME quality sketch....one on a piece of backing board etc, or one on a blank cover, that has been CGC SS'd...which would sell for more?

 

It really does go both ways.....About 5 months ago, I got a blank cover done by Chris Guiarruso...I think it cost me about 20 bucks....I got it back, needed some cash and threw it up on Ebay...it sold for almost 160!!!!!!! I was SHOCKED.....

 

Now, would that SAME sketch, if it was on a simple piece of paper, sell for that amount? Dont think so...

 

But....

 

I think there are some examples that the opposite might be true...people are welcome to chime in....

 

But again....the whole point of this thread it to really find out why people want the CGC SS blanks....so far, I think many of you brought up some great points....

 

No question, CGC'd sketches will most definitely bring more. The only exception that I can think of would be those that are larger than CGC can handle. If you're looking at the same size and same quality on a CGC'd sketch and a raw, CGC will bring in more all day long.

 

how many people draw on 5x5 usually? I will tell you if you have a bolland sketch cover say compared to a 8.5 x 11 sketch of same character, then the 8.5x11 will out draw it. The SS market is such a small percentage and I would guess most OA collectors would rather have the sketch than joker on an avengers cover.

 

just to your last point, I would think that my top sketches from certain artists could stand up to any example of an 8.5 by 11 commission from them

[comix4fun]

Now....I want to say...Jon is right.....traditional OA will usually sell for more than a blank cover....that simply goes without saying...

 

Let me ask THIS question....if its the SAME quality sketch....one on a piece of backing board etc, or one on a blank cover, that has been CGC SS'd...which would sell for more?

 

It really does go both ways.....About 5 months ago, I got a blank cover done by Chris Guiarruso...I think it cost me about 20 bucks....I got it back, needed some cash and threw it up on Ebay...it sold for almost 160!!!!!!! I was SHOCKED.....

 

Now, would that SAME sketch, if it was on a simple piece of paper, sell for that amount? Dont think so...

 

But....

 

I think there are some examples that the opposite might be true...people are welcome to chime in....

 

But again....the whole point of this thread it to really find out why people want the CGC SS blanks....so far, I think many of you brought up some great points....

 

No question, CGC'd sketches will most definitely bring more. The only exception that I can think of would be those that are larger than CGC can handle. If you're looking at the same size and same quality on a CGC'd sketch and a raw, CGC will bring in more all day long.

 

how many people draw on 5x5 usually? I will tell you if you have a bolland sketch cover say compared to a 8.5 x 11 sketch of same character, then the 8.5x11 will out draw it. The SS market is such a small percentage and I would guess most OA collectors would rather have the sketch than joker on an avengers cover.

 

just to your last point, I would think that my top sketches from certain artists could stand up to any example of an 8.5 by 11 commission from them

 

 

It probably depends on the blank being used.

 

If you measure out the sketch space on a Marvels project for example, it's about 1/2 the size of the overall cover space from below the logo and following the other 3 borders. That's somewhere around 3.5" by 5". It's visually deceiving, it seems larger at a glance, but it's not.

 

If Dave Finch fills the space on a Marvels Project blank and then fills an 8 1/2 x 11 piece of art board the latter sketch will be more than double in size.

 

Put the pieces next to each other and it's striking. I've done it.

 

I have pieces as small as 2"x2" and as large as 24" x 36" and size makes a tremendous difference, everything else being equal.