Crow registry sets discussion - and adding Deadworld #10

[Bosco685]

Since this has become a deep discussion about registry practices in the Expansions thread, I figured we better move it to a dedicated thread. Otherwise, other set requests may get lost.

 

The three-set request:

 

So what's the thoughts on having three Crow sets to meet various needs like the Walking Dead collectors have done?

 

- Set 1: The core books that launched The Crow (no side stories, previews, reprints, etc.). So Caliber Presents 1 and Crow 1-4.

 

- Set 2: All the books tied to the early Crow appearances, including Deadworld #10, A Caliber Christmas #1, Caliber Presents #15, Death Rattle Vol. 3 #3, and I hope Crow Tundra #3 since it completes the first chapter. But no reprints.

 

- Set 3: Anything-everything Crow that is graded, including reprints, later series, etc. This way, a die-hard Crow fan can capture all of their books in one registry, including later stories.

 

Would that work?

 

Everyone participating in the discussion having a Crow registry set agreed on the suggestion, but not the addition of Deadworld #10 to Set #2. From feedback provided by registry owners, here's where the suggestion stands.

 

Here is where we stand on Crow registry holders' suggestions concerning Deadworld #10.

 

Add Deadworld #10 to the 2nd and 3rd set = Bosco685, Newenglandgothic, Devilsrain, Doc Joe, Mikelutes

 

Add Deadworld #10 to the 3rd set only = Mschmidt, Seanfingh

 

Undecided = Detroitmike

 

But there is a question of what is the norm for CGC registry sets when considering unique artwork advertisements that predate character 1st appearances.

 

Probably best we go from there.

[Bosco685]

I'd be careful calling "consistency" when it fits a counter-point's needs. The only consistent practice people can agree on is adding main books of a run or limited series to a set. Previews, prototypes, ads, variant covers (price, art, color), reprints (exact or otherwise) have depended on the requestor, the backing they receive, and timing.

 

As far as I know, the CGC registry is actually very consistent in the treatment of ad books - they are never counted as appearances and the only Registry sets they're ever added to are catch-all ones (alongside reprints, variants, previews, pinups, etc).

 

Can you give us an example where this isn't the case?

 

I'll address this.

[Bosco685]

Okay. Had so much great news today, was slammed for time. But what a day!

 

 

As far as I know, the CGC registry is actually very consistent in the treatment of ad books - they are never counted as appearances and the only Registry sets they're ever added to are catch-all ones (alongside reprints, variants, previews, pinups, etc).

 

Can you give us an example where this isn't the case?

 

I can give you an example that has been repeated over and over about a new book type that was added to a set, even though this was not the norm.

 

Dime Press #4 - Never done before adding a prototype to a set.

 

So there is your example. But I owe Gemma some additional details, as it appears they used a fan appreciation site to judge whether a book was a prototype or not. I'll touch on that later since trick-or-treaters are pouring in.

 

But it is wrong to act as if adding a unique art back cover advertisement is "inconsistent" when it can be shown all sorts of norms have been changed here to fit a collecting need, and 5:7 registry holders were totally okay adding this book to Set #2.

 

This still applies. Sets have either come to accept previews, variants or other non-standard books, or not. Even adding books like Larry Variants into sets for completest. Why this new topic supported by more than myself touched a nerve is just about the points, which is a shame for those wanting to have all the Crow books in a set without exact reprints being included.

 

I'd be careful calling "consistency" when it fits a counter-point's needs. The only consistent practice people can agree on is adding main books of a run or limited series to a set. Previews, prototypes, ads, variant covers (price, art, color), reprints (exact or otherwise) have depended on the requestor, the backing they receive, and timing.

 

Three years of consistent price variants - now it's consistent without them - but wait ...

 

That is not a knock on Gemma. It proves requestor/backing/timing matter.

 

And examples like this where the expectation for "consistent" changed over time shows consistency just means what is accepted by the majority.

[Turtle]

I'm still curious about the question I posed in the other thread.

 

Let's apply this to another character that is more well known: Batman. What if someone were to suggest that Action Comics #12 get added to any variety of Batman sets because of this ad that predates Detective Comics #27 (the first appearance of Batman):

Does anyone here think Action #12 should be added to any Batman registry that isn't a catch-all?

 

Bosco has already stated that he doesn't want to answer because he wants to stick to books he knows and collects. What does everyone else think? Should the Batman ad from Action #19 be added to any of the Batman registries that don't count as catch-all sets? This question is posed to everyone, but I'd be especially interested in the answers of those who think Deadworld #10 should be listed as a competitive book in set #2.

 

Speaking of which, I'm not sure one or two of the people listed in the "add Deadworld to set #2" category ever said in the previous thread that they were in favor of adding the book to the set, rather they were in favor of the 3-set system. Devilsrain springs to mind. It seems his main contention was with Calibur Christmas, not Deadworld.

 

I'm not saying they don't favor adding Deadworld to set #2, I'm just saying I didn't see where it was stated.

[N/A]

No. Action 12 should not be part of a competitive Batman set but perhaps in a non-competitive slot of a catch all set.

[KolmarAvenue]

No. Action 12 should not be part of a competitive Batman set but perhaps in a non-competitive slot of a catch all set.

 

+1

[Bosco685]

Speaking of which, I'm not sure one or two of the people listed in the "add Deadworld to set #2" category ever said in the previous thread that they were in favor of adding the book to the set, rather they were in favor of the 3-set system. Devilsrain springs to mind. It seems his main contention was with Calibur Christmas, not Deadworld.

 

I'm not saying they don't favor adding Deadworld to set #2, I'm just saying I didn't see where it was stated.

Peter Palmer missed this point, so I just wanted to clarify so there is no confusion.

 

Goon is definitely the Modern I missed out on by not being in the hobby for a number of years. I love reading those TPB's though.

 

 

So what's the thoughts on having three Crow sets to meet various needs like the Walking Dead collectors have done?

 

- Set 1: The core books that launched The Crow (no side stories, previews, reprints, etc.). So Caliber Presents 1 and Crow 1-4.

 

- Set 2: All the books tied to the early Crow appearances, including Deadworld #10, A Caliber Christmas #1, Caliber Presents #15, Death Rattle Vol. 3 #3, and I hope Crow Tundra #3 since it completes the first chapter. But no reprints.

 

- Set 3: Anything-everything Crow that is graded, including reprints, later series, etc. This way, a die-hard Crow fan can capture all of their books in one registry, including later stories.

 

Would that work?

 

Three separate sets would seem to satisfy everyone here. Im definitely all for dumping out caliber Christmas in Set 1

Why this has become a quest for you in even digging through who participated in a registry decision is interesting. It has a feeling of more than "casual interest" at this point.

[Bosco685]

Here's what I would provide as an answer, without doing all the reseach on the book in question.

Let's apply this to another character that is more well known: Batman. What if someone were to suggest that Action Comics #12 get added to any variety of Batman sets because of this ad that predates Detective Comics #27 (the first appearance of Batman):

Does anyone here think Action #12 should be added to any Batman registry that isn't a catch-all?

 

If the majority of registry set holders who also would participate in a discussion here agree if should be added, then it would be added. So like what has been done for a one-cover prototype, previews, and other non-main registry set books, the same would happen here.

 

And like the example I showed before on Howard the Duck, even something like price variants that are sometimes in/sometimes not in registry sets was taken out for not being consistent. But then there are other sets that handled this cleanly, and broke out main books from price variants.

 

X-Men #94-#143 Including Variants

 

X-Men #94-#143

 

So I suggested something like this, in having a Set #1 with the original Crow story direct books, and then a Set #2 which would contain the direct and indirect books for the Crow Chapter One story. It ended up being supported by the majority of the participating registry set holders. It just so happens there are other books like multiple exact reprints and later appearances either directly or indirectly that other collectors may want in a registry set, which is why a Set #3.

 

The only difference between The Crow and the Uncanny X-Men books is Crow is an independent character that jumped around in different books, companies, and story content as it didn't have a straight title appearance. Not coming from a major company which had a long-running title to advertise in advance the changeover to a new team, O'Barr and Caliber Comics had to use things such as creating a unique advertisement on the back of Deadworld #10, inserting the character into compilations such as A Caliber Christmas #1, and even advertising the coming of Crow #5 to wrap up the story by inserting a preview in Caliber Presents #15.

 

So now I have answered any of your questions concerning advertisements, Action Comics #12, and even Gobbleygook vs Deadworld #10 (there is a difference, whether you admit it or not). How about we narrow down this discussion to the Crow registry set holders since they are the persons impacted by this decision. The answer is very clear on any deviation from adding or subtracting to main set books:

 

If the majority of registry set holders who also participate in a change discussion agree something should be added or removed, then it is added or removed.

 

And asking a question like this:

 

What does everyone else think?

 

Is like having an open poll to ask people if they will support creating a registry set of things they don't collect or appreciate. Foreign covers easily proved that point.

[N/A]

The only difference between The Crow and the Uncanny X-Men books is Crow is an independent character that jumped around in different books, companies, and story content as it didn't have a straight title appearance. Not coming from a major company which had a long-running title to advertise in advance the changeover to a new team, O'Barr and Caliber Comics had to use things such as creating a unique advertisement on the back of Deadworld #10, inserting the character into compilations such as A Caliber Christmas #1, and even advertising the coming of Crow #5 to wrap up the story by inserting a preview in Caliber Presents #

 

There are a few other differences as well including the number of books and registry holders. And yet with all those registry sets you'd think there would more trouble adding books than adding a book to a Crow set.

 

It sounds more like Deadworld 10 should wait for the custom sets registry. In fact maybe Crow should have 2 sets with one being a catch all and any other sets could wait for the custom registry option like so many others.

 

So how many are for and against this again? Seems a couple have switched sides. If that's the case then isn't the majority voting to not add it to the extra 2nd set?

[Bosco685]

So how many are for and against this again? Seems a couple have switched sides. If that's the case then isn't the majority voting to not add it to the extra 2nd set?

Interesting point.

Here is where we stand on Crow registry holders' suggestions concerning Deadworld #10.

 

Add Deadworld #10 to the 2nd and 3rd set = Bosco685, Newenglandgothic, Devilsrain, Doc Joe, Mikelutes

 

Add Deadworld #10 to the 3rd set only = Mschmidt, Seanfingh

 

Undecided = Detroitmike

The only Crow registry set owner to "switched sides" - like this is a political decision - was Seanfingh.

 

And others have even provided their take on adding Deadworld #10 other than myself.

+1

For one, DeadWorld #10 is a special case much like Dime Press #4 and Gobbledygook #1(is that how you spell it? :shrug: ), where just a first glimpse of a future hero is iconic enough to warrant this. Adding Deadworld #10 is rather a non-issue. This shouldn't be compared with 6 page previews of The Goon or The Walking Dead. It's a little more than an ad in opinion.

 

Hi Gemma,

 

To keep the competition going with the Crow (1989) set, I'd like to make the following requests to capture a complete story.

 

- Change the registry title to Crow Chapter One

- Add Deadworld #10 since it contains the 1st cameo of The Crow.

- Add Death Rattle Vol. 3 #3 since this contains content tied in with the Crow first chapter.

- Add The Crow Volume 3: Death (Tundra Press #3) since this contains the final unpublished story content for Crow Chapter One.

 

The Crow 1-2 from Tundra are reprints of the original material from Caliber Presents and Crow 1-3, so those really should be in their own set.

 

Thank you for your consideration, and I look forward to feedback from registry set holders.

 

Sounds great to me. (thumbs u

As the registry set manager of sexyghoul's Two-Time #1 Registry Award Winning Crow Set, Jen is very pleased and excited at the issue suggestions and the title change idea.

 

While my set isnt complete or as glorious as the above posters I am in agreement with the addition of Deadworld 10, Death Rattle 3 & The Crow 3 (Tundra)

 

I can see making an argument against Tundra Titles added in but at the same time with the third book having content related to Chapter One then it makes sense.

 

Lets put it this way, if A Caliber Christmas is in the registry then all of the above should be included in The Crow Registry Set as well. My

 

I know I am late to the game, but in my opinion I agree with Bosco on the idea of the 3 sets and their content. I have purchased Crow comics from several of the people who have chimed in on this debate and have nothing against anyone here and this is just my opinion. As far as the Deadworld #10 debate, my opinion is that it does belong in the 2nd and 3rd set because of the uniqueness of the art as well as it predating the first appearance of the Crow in Caliber Presents #1. Another small reason why I lean towards it being in the 2nd set is that how many of Deadworld #10 were even produced? Its not like this was a fancy ad that ran in several comics and was mass printed, it was an advertisement that James O'Barr made specifically for this comic and to draw some awareness to the up and coming appearance of the Crow and it really is the first time the world saw O'Barr's Crow. In my opinion, that makes it a part of the original chapter, given a small part but a part nonetheless. And like I said, I have no problems with anyone here and even congratulated mschmidt on his set when I saw it the other day, I love the Crow and no matter what happens with these registry sets I will still collect these comics and do my best to make the best set I can.

They just backed off in further discussions due to the excessive character attacks on me, rather than this being a straight decision about the books.

[N/A]

But character attacks add depth to the discussion.

 

Has everyone chimed in on whether it needs to be a competitive slot? Seems like a good compromise to have the book added as non-competitive.

[Bosco685]

But character attacks add depth to the discussion.

 

 

Has everyone chimed in on whether it needs to be a competitive slot? Seems like a good compromise to have the book added as non-competitive.

 

No, because the original discussion was to add it. Why make it non-competitive? Because two Crow registry set owners out of seven don't want it? Is two the majority now?

[Gemma]

What other books have a Crow Appearance such that they should be valid for the 3rd set "Crow (Complete)"? A list would be great, thanks!

[Bosco685]

What other books have a Crow Appearance such that they should be valid for the 3rd set "Crow (Complete)"? A list would be great, thanks!

 

Thanks Gemma.

 

- Deadworld #10 (Caliber Comics)

- Caliber Presents #1 (Caliber Comics)

- The Crow #1, first through third printing (Caliber Comics)

- The Crow #2, first through third printing (Caliber Comics)

- The Crow #3, first and second printing (Caliber Comics)

- A Caliber Christmas #1 (1989) (Caliber Comics)

- Caliber Presents #15 (Caliber Comics)

- Amazing Heroes 1990 Swimsuit Special (Fantagraphic Books) - It appears there is one 9.4 in the census.

- The Crow Volume 1: Pain & Fear (Tundra Books)

- The Crow Volume 2: Irony & Despair (Tundra Books)

- The Crow Volume 3: Death (Tundra Books)

- Death Rattle Vol. 3 #3 (Kitchen Sink)

 

I'll get with Newenglandgothic and confirm the other books containing The Crow, as there are a few later Kitchen Sink series.

[N/A]

But character attacks add depth to the discussion.

 

 

Has everyone chimed in on whether it needs to be a competitive slot? Seems like a good compromise to have the book added as non-competitive.

 

No, because the original discussion was to add it. Why make it non-competitive? Because two Crow registry set owners out of seven don't want it? Is two the majority now?

 

 

How many points are you considering then? If non-competitive is 1 point and you don't want that then how many?

 

[Bosco685]

How many points are you considering then? If non-competitive is 1 point and you don't want that then how many?

 

Deadworld #10 already has points assigned, as it is part of the Deadworld Vol. 1 registry set.

 

Deadworld (Arrow)

 

It should receive the same points as it receives today, which is far below any of the early Crow books. So even that is reflecting this is not the end-all, be-all for Crow collectors. But it is a unique one-time art piece.

[Gemma]

Non-Compeitive is 0 points (the one point is for display only). It will be competitive in the 3rd set.

[Bosco685]

Non-Compeitive is 0 points (the one point is for display only). It will be competitive in the 3rd set.

 

Gemma, with this note is Deadworld #10 going to be added to Set #2, but non-competitive?

[Gemma]

It's already there.

[N/A]

And I had a whole long ranting post that I formulated while at the park with my daughter. Oh well.

 

In the end the registry Queen has spoken.