Right Now is MY Golden Age

[mrwoogieman]

Forget the halcyon days of yore (whenever those were anyway), because RIGHT NOW is my Golden Age of comic collecting.

 

Thanks to ebay and CGC (and this board), I'm more immersed in this hobby than at any other point in my life, and I'm loving it! I've learned more about comics and comic collecting in the past 3 years than I learned in the thirty years before that, combined. And thanks to ebay I now have an outlet to buy and sell comics without dealing with dealers, I can explore new collecting areas that were otherwise inaccessible before the internet, and I can make the hobby pay for itself with smart purchases.

 

So, for all these reasons (and some more really really good ones, like good health, good job, great kids) it's easy to call the 21st Century my Golden Age of comic collecting. I'm going to enjoy it as long as I can.

[sfilosa]

I hear ya!!!!!

 

Actually for me, CGC has been the most important part.

[drbanner]

Yup, I'll drink to that!

 

[rob_react]

Me four?

 

I know that among certain posters here, because of the obsession for the negative on these boards, the idea is that comics have never been worse. Maybe for them it is, who am I to judge? For me, it's the exact opposite. It's true, things aren't perfect, but they've never BEEN perfect and speaking from experience the negative stuff was far worse in a lot of ways "back in the day."

 

The good stuff, of course, far outweighs the bad stuff for me. I have better access to books and art, I have a much easier and enjoyable platform to sell books, I have an easy and inexpensive outlet to write about the hobby and through boards like this I have access to hundreds of like-minded folks. What more could I ask for?

[joe_collector]

I can agree to a point, and the period between 1998 and 2001 was one of the best times I've ever had collecting comics.

 

The Internet was rocking, there were more comics than I could ever buy on EBay, I finally had the space to store the books, and it was just a real "Golden Age" for comics in general.

 

The only thing that has really changed since then is CGC and a mass influx of speculators. The first I like, but a lot of my negativity is due to the last group, and how they've almost killed comic collecting in the past.

 

I'm worried that this time around, they're back to finish the job.

[shadroch]

All in all.I'm inclined to agree. I just bought three 1967 Fantastic Four(64,69,70) in average VGish shape for less then I'd pay for three new issue, and less then they would have cost me at any LCS ten years ago.I'm not really sure thats a good thing.

[FFB]

Me four?

 

I know that among certain posters here, because of the obsession for the negative on these boards, the idea is that comics have never been worse. Maybe for them it is, who am I to judge? For me, it's the exact opposite. It's true, things aren't perfect, but they've never BEEN perfect and speaking from experience the negative stuff was far worse in a lot of ways "back in the day."

 

The good stuff, of course, far outweighs the bad stuff for me. I have better access to books and art, I have a much easier and enjoyable platform to sell books, I have an easy and inexpensive outlet to write about the hobby and through boards like this I have access to hundreds of like-minded folks. What more could I ask for?

 

A blue shirt would be a good start.

[OldGuy]

Me four?

 

I know that among certain posters here, because of the obsession for the negative on these boards, the idea is that comics have never been worse. Maybe for them it is, who am I to judge? For me, it's the exact opposite. It's true, things aren't perfect, but they've never BEEN perfect and speaking from experience the negative stuff was far worse in a lot of ways "back in the day."

 

The good stuff, of course, far outweighs the bad stuff for me. I have better access to books and art, I have a much easier and enjoyable platform to sell books, I have an easy and inexpensive outlet to write about the hobby and through boards like this I have access to hundreds of like-minded folks. What more could I ask for?

 

Yea, but what you collect sucks. You should collect what I collect. I collect the cool stuff.

[mrwoogieman]

Me four?

 

What more could I ask for?

 

FF#60 Newsstand?

[Silver Surfer]

I will say that the CGC concept has probably revitalized interest in comic collecting as it gives me a great deal of comfort knowing exactually what I am getting. Yes this has made purchases more expensive but I can't imagine buying raw books online at the same clip.

[delekkerste]

The good stuff, of course, far outweighs the bad stuff for me. I have better access to books and art, I have a much easier and enjoyable platform to sell books, I have an easy and inexpensive outlet to write about the hobby and through boards like this I have access to hundreds of like-minded folks. What more could I ask for?

 

A giant vat of Kool-Aid and Jim Jones, perhaps?

 

Anyway, I agree with you to a point. New comics are the best they have been in 15 years, and eBay/CGC/Marvel movies have energized existing collectors and helped bring back former collectors back into the fold. Furthermore, the Internet has certainly facilitated the creation of the most informed and cohesive community in the history of the hobby. However, I think there has been the tendency amidst the euphoria to overlook the growing ethical transgressions in the hobby and to rationalize today's crack-pipe prices (both on an absolute and relative basis, e.g., $50K worth of difference between an X-Men #1 CGC 9.4 and 9.6) as normal. I wonder, when (not if) this house of cards comes crashing down, collection values are scythed off at the knees, and recriminations and scapegoating become the normal day-to-day state of the hobby, whether we will all be having as much "fun" as we are now.

[sfilosa]

However, I think there has been the tendency amidst the euphoria to overlook the growing ethical transgressions in the hobby and to rationalize today's crack-pipe prices (both on an absolute and relative basis, e.g., $50K worth of difference between an X-Men #1 CGC 9.4 and 9.6) as normal. I wonder, when (not if) this house of cards comes crashing down, collection values are scythed off at the knees, and recriminations and scapegoating become the normal day-to-day state of the hobby, whether we will all be having as much "fun" as we are now.

 

 

I will agree, paying $53K more to go from a 9.4 to 9.6 seems a bit irrational. But even if three years from now the current buyer HAD to sell the 9.6 and only got $65K, would that REALLY have an affect on most collectors.

 

NO!!!!

 

The art market crashed in the early 90's but that didn't mean everyone with a $100 painting started to liquidate all the art in their houses.

 

And Rockfeller center sold in the early 90's for about half of what it was bought for in the mid-80's. I'm sure that hurt some values of other buildings in downtown NY, but that didn't hurt housing prices or even office buildings everywhere else.

 

I have an X-Men #1 in CGC 8.0. Did that just go up in value because of $110k 9.6 sale. Probably not!

[delekkerste]

I will agree, paying $53K more to go from a 9.4 to 9.6 seems a bit irrational. But even if three years from now the current buyer HAD to sell the 9.6 and only got $65K, would that REALLY have an affect on most collectors.

 

NO!!!!

 

The art market crashed in the early 90's but that didn't mean everyone with a $100 painting started to liquidate all the art in their houses.

 

And Rockfeller center sold in the early 90's for about half of what it was bought for in the mid-80's. I'm sure that hurt some values of other buildings in downtown NY, but that didn't hurt housing prices or even office buildings everywhere else.

 

I have an X-Men #1 in CGC 8.0. Did that just go up in value because of $110k 9.6 sale. Probably not!

 

What do your examples have to do with anything? I could point out any number of wacked-out prices up and down the comic food chain.

 

My point is that this *should* look like a "golden age" of collecting and that collectors *should* be able to hang their hats on several years of extremely strong price appreciation, quality new books and a number of other things - what did you think things would look like at/near the top of the market? Gloom and doom? That's what you find at the *bottom* of the market. Things always look this rosy at the top (even as the negative things are swept under the rug).

[shadroch]

I suspect that with few exceptions, the buyers of these whacked out books are not collectors at all. Merely investor/speculators that are in sarch of a quick buck.

I don't see how them getting burnt will cause a massive upheaval in the entire market.Several key books from the SA went down this year in the guide(Cap America 100,FF 48) in most grades yet I don't see a flood of sales.Everything that goes up does go down,but the fact that you constantly use the dutch tulip craze of 300plus years ago indicates that few things crash as badly as that one did.In the 30s, land values in Miami went thru the roof and in the sudden decline many peope lost their fortunes. Yet for those who held the land longturn,todays propery values dwarf the earlier ones.

[joe_collector]

I suspect that with few exceptions, the buyers of these whacked out books are not collectors at all. Merely investor/speculators that are in sarch of a quick buck. I don't see how them getting burnt will cause a massive upheaval in the entire market.

 

I agree, and it's only going to be the ultra-high grade, nosebleed priced books that will be hammered. That will then filter down to NM CGC and raw comics, and lower the multiples quite significantly.

 

Then the Speculator Exodus starts, and things just get worse for these books that HAD sold for 20X Guide. This is the area that will bleed over the next few years.

 

If you're buying and selling VG to VF raw, this high-end blood-letting likely won't be more than a blip on the radar.

[mrwoogieman]

Thanks for saying it for me JC!

 

VG to VF comic collecting in the 21st Century rules!

[delekkerste]

I suspect that with few exceptions, the buyers of these whacked out books are not collectors at all. Merely investor/speculators that are in sarch of a quick buck.

 

I don't want to turn this into a crash thread or variant thereof, but I strongly disagree with this statement. Almost every collector I know is doing at least a little bit of dabbling in comic speculation as well - and why not, it's been a gravy train the past few years. Would interest in the hobby be so strong now if we had eBay, CGC (and all the other things that people attribute to it being such a great time to be a collector) but prices were falling through the floor? Certainly not. I'm sure BassGMan can tell you better than I, the best of times does not last forever (it was painful to read his account of how he made huge money in the tech bubble and then lost all his profits and then some).

 

 

yet I don't see a flood of sales.

 

The operative word being "yet".

 

 

Everything that goes up does go down,but the fact that you constantly use the dutch tulip craze of 300plus years ago indicates that few things crash as badly as that one did.

 

That's a catch-all term for all the bubbles that have occurred since, of which I have detailed *many*. However, a secular boom in the American economy bailed out a lot of people from the recent bubbles that people (like sfilosa) have mentioned. Watch what happens when we get a once in a century secular bust - you can throw out your Overstreet guide then, because it'll all be hitting the fan and probably won't be coming back in our lifetimes. Go read the article I posted in the "Prices are out of Whack" thread for a sneak preview of what's coming.

[mrwoogieman]

My interest in the hobby is so stong now (partly) due to the fact that prices fell through the floor with the introduction of ebay. For the first time, I had shop at home convenience and a HUGE amount of inventory to peruse with significantly lower prices than any LCS could meet and stay in business.

 

 

And that hasn't much changed, because I can still find TONS AND TONS of books for WAY below guide on ebay: moderns for pennies; cool silver and bronze books for a buck or two apiece, if that; etc., etc.

[sfilosa]

Thanks for saying it for me JC!

 

VG to VF comic collecting in the 21st Century rules!

 

WIll have to respectfully disagree.

 

The reason I (and many others) will never just buy low to mid-grade Silver (and newer books) is that I wouldn't be collecting, I would be just purchasing these books.

 

There are SO MANY mid-grade books (just go to any major convention) that it would be like collecting something that you can buy at WALMART. I have no interest in just purchasing old comic books that can be found at every convention and tons of LCS.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't collect VG to VF, obviously you should collect what you want, but IN EVERY COLLECTIBLE FIELD, high-grade, cream of the crop quality is what ALWAYS RULES.

 

 

And back to Gene:

 

My point is, the selling price of $100K books really doesn't have much if any affect on the value of 99.99999% of all comic books. I would be much more worried if I saw a major dumping at half price of 9.4 Marvels in the $100-1,000 range, where a lot of the sales are (and a lot of collectors and dealers have a lot of their collection/inventory).

[Paul_Maul]

Would interest in the hobby be so strong now if we had eBay, CGC (and all the other things that people attribute to it being such a great time to be a collector) but prices were falling through the floor? Certainly not.

 

I'm not sure about this. There have been times when I have enjoyed seeing huge paper gains in the

value of my collection. But I rarely sell anything except when I become unsatisfied with the item.

Half the time I feel I would welcome a crash since it would allow me to get a lot of cheaper high grade

books I can't now afford. It kind of depends on how much you like high grade books because you just

like 'em, and how much you like 'em because they're worth a lot.

 

 

Watch what happens when we get a once in a century secular bust - you can throw out your Overstreet guide then, because it'll all be hitting the fan and probably won't be coming back in our lifetimes. Go read the article I posted in the "Prices are out of Whack" thread for a sneak preview of what's coming.

 

You're probably right that those who have bought heavily into the high multiples will take a bath. My own approach has been to pay high only on books here and there that I really want and write it off

against collections I bought 10 years ago for $1500 that would sell for 15 times that today if graded.

Since I hope never to sell my books, I wouldn't really lose sleep over it either way.

 

But your economic analysis I feel has merit, and I agree people should not mortgage themselves to buy

into the CGC craze at these prices.