Where do the dealers come up with their prices ???

[Tomega]

Who's complaining, sell for whatever price you want - that was not the point. The point is self evident and you , incorrectly, just take it as a personal attack. No one was on you or whining, I am sure you work hard and I do understand the business. If you do not have a BMW in your drive way then you should as a successful business man . If you do not, perhaps something is wrong. Your first name was mentioned only because of the FF 49 mentioned earlier and that was it. Most of the prices I came up with was from Metropolis, you, and Harley- no names were inferred. One of my points was one way a business makes money is to move inventory. I am sure there is many an item that you sold on eBay ( or a show) for a lot less then what you have on your website. Why? Because the price was fair and may have reflected the market. Is the ASM at 12 times guide going to move? No. I am in a similar situation, I work for a company that deals in product and services. Over a year ago our prices were about 30% over market price. We were operating at a 55-60% mark up. The % profit was there but the total revenue was not. Now we are down to 46%, our % profit is lower but our over profit in dollars it much higher. We are still higher in price but we offer the best product - 20% is more in line then 30%+ when dealing in thousands of dollars. Again, it is the basic - offer good customer service with good quality in demand products for a fair price. Some of your prices are fair and some are not. No one is asking you to justify your prices just do not expect everyone here to agree with them.

 

[Tomega]

eBay is not the end all of prices but it is an indicator. Your prices from ebay do not reflect reserves or potential shill biddings. If you took the average of those named issues you would get a better picture of what the prices are. As you said, this is a small sample and small samples are a terrible indicator.

[murph0]

eBay prices are too trendy most of the time, you'd need a lot of sales over a decent period of time to really say that eBay prices are accurate.

 

Brian

[localshop]

You cannot equate the provision of products which are readily manufactured and 40 year old, high grade comic books!! These things are NOT widgets. You may very well be in the position were you have the means and capability to operate to this criteria, but it is a poor analogy in this instance.

 

Bob has NO obligation to do anything with his prices. If he doesn't think that he can get that price for it, he won't put it at that level. If he is that bad at pricing his comic books he would be out of business.

 

Finally, I didn't realise that a BMW in the drive was the criteria by which success was measured. I have learnt soemthing from the forum today!

[blazingbob]

And my reply is I do move inventory, I move quite a bit of inventory. You pull prices off my site and name me in your note and claim I am out of touch with the market. Your damn right I take it personally! I must be missing something, do you have a connection to my database of sales? Have I been openly complaining that I am not making sales? Or are you angry that you can't buy books from me at prices you want to pay? The last time I looked Highgradecomics.com with it's staff of 1, 1, and only 1 person doing Accounting, Sales, Packing and shipping and working a day job also was doing just fine. If and when I ever do this full time I believe I can then focus my staff on putting some of my books listed on the site in touch with "your" reality. All that and making sure I accurately grade, don't overcharge for postage, disclose all date stamps and writing, etc.

 

 

[murph0]

Damnit, I don't have a BMW.. someday maybe I can become a successful business man and get one

Hey Bob, I'll join your staff. You can pay me in comic books..I have yet to figure out what my official position will be..but while we're figuring that out..go ahead and send me a few books to cover my pay for next week

 

Brian

[lighthouse]

eBay is not the end all of prices but it is an indicator. Your prices from ebay do not reflect reserves or potential shill biddings. If you took the average of those named issues you would get a better picture of what the prices are. As you said, this is a small sample and small samples are a terrible indicator.

 

And therein lies the rub...

 

The problem with using eBay as a gauge of the comic market is the same as the problem with using Overstreet, Wizard, CBG, or a Yoda Magic 8-Ball. Any of these references only has access to a limited number of transactions, and has difficulty projecting the rest of the market.

 

Last year, there were likely 10,000 sales of ASM 300 in various conditions in North America. Less than 10% of those sales were on eBay, and substantially less than 10% were reported to a price guide. I personally sold 23 copies of the book during 2002, including a whopping 3 eBay sales. I started the year with 5 copies in inventory, and ended it with 4...

 

With the exception of the three CGC copies I put on eBay (with no reserve and no shilling), I priced the rest of the books with the only method that ever makes sense. I priced them based on my replacement cost. It doesn't matter a bit whether I have $10 or $70 in a book. If it costs me $53 to replace it, then my price is a function of that number. If I price my books based on a low sunk cost, I will be out of inventory in no time. If I price based on a high sunk cost I will have an inventory full of tombstones.

 

There is no other choice when it comes to pricing as a retailer. Should I price my Batman #608's at cover because I paid half that? Should a store price Ghost Rider #15 at $30 because they paid $20 back when it was hot? In both cases the answer is no... I price Batman 608 around $10 because they cost me around $6 to get more, and I price Ghost Rider #15 at $3...

 

People also forget that the final amount listed on eBay is hardly the true price for the item. With virtually every item you must also include shipping costs, making a typical $10 eBay comic "worth" around $15 because that is the actual outlay. But in addition to that eBay takes time. LOTS of time. If you want to buy consistently on eBay you have to invest a good deal of your own time to do it. If you spend 30 hours online each week to buy $1,000 worth of comics, those comics cost you a heckuva lot more than $1,000. Some people treat this as recreation time, and more power to them, but either way there is an opportunity cost that goes along with the "cheap" price you found on eBay...

 

I have absolutely no problem with a retailer/dealer charging high prices on anything, as long as they are legitimately interested in paying a decent percentage of that to buy the same item... Ask Donut how much he wants for his Weird Wonder Tales 15 variant. Then ask him what he is paying for another one before you start to cuss him out in public... If you ask me what I want for my nicest TOS 49, you won't like the answer. But you better believe I am interested in buying them.

 

If folks here want to complain about dealers like Metropolis and Harley Yee charging big bucks, fine. But I have sold to both, and I have no doubt that if they are asking a lot for a book, they are paying a lot too...

[Tomega]

I made one note of your price for the FF book and it was originally taken from a prior posts- as I repeatedly stated. In fact I said it was not bad a price - I know how hard it is for the FF under 50 although I , personally, feel that more then 3 times guide for a 9.2 silver Marvel is not a great price. You named yourself with the rest of the pricing, some of which had nothing to do with you at all. Did I say that you were not selling? Are you angry that I pointed out some issues that are 8-12 times guide (like a ASM 177 9.6) is indeed out of touch with the market/reality as opposed to "your " reality.? You do not know me personally and I do not know you personally, so I do not know how your sales are going no more then whether you know what I can purchase ( which I have from you several times at shows.) I'm sorry you viewed this as a personal attack but , perhaps, if you had just said " yeah, those issues were a bit out of hand but the other issue is priced because of these factors...." Never did I specifically ask you to justify your prices but an answer of " it is a reflection of of the inflated CGC 9.4,9.6, and 9.8 market, the market structure on that is only 20%...." or something similar would have been more constructive. From the posts , people see both our points - perhaps "reality" is what lies in between- I hope you can see that and I hope you do continue to be successful.

[hammer-migration]

A few more factors only because they haven't yet been mentioned, as to why a CGC 9.4 XXX might go for twice as much as the same issue and number a few days later:

 

NOT ALL CGC 9.4s ARE CREATED EQUAL. C'mon guys, we've seen 9.4s that we've ALL thought were 9.0s and we've seen 9.4s that we can't find a flaw on if our very lives were at stake! Then there's factory defect as well, off-centering, mis-folds, serrated edges. (How about that God-awful, 1/4" of back cover white showing on the front cover before the black line, MISFOLDS on BOTH CGC Hulk 181s in 9.8??!!??). Page color, etc. etc. etc.

 

The "Butting Ram" effect. TWO bidders, butting heads over the same book on Ebay. If you're lucky enough to have this happen, two rams, neither of which will back down, in all probability...a record price will be acheived.

[Tomega]

"And therein lies the rub...

 

The problem with using eBay as a gauge of the comic market is the same as the problem with using Overstreet, Wizard, CBG, or a Yoda Magic 8-Ball. Any of these references only has access to a limited number of transactions, and has difficulty projecting the rest of the market.........."

 

Now this is well thought out reply. You are right about some of the factors you mentioned but there is more to it ( as I am sure your realize.) I said eBay is an indicator ( or gauge) as is the price guides. You then must take into account whether the market is hot for that issue, profit margin, some replacement cost, print run , and volume of sales- all which come down to what the market will bare. I do not think you base solely on replacement cost without taking those other factors into consideration. Replacement costs are also if you are trying to maintain a static inventory and would not apply to all issues ( such as rarities.) If ASM 300 is selling everywhere for $50 and you bought it 3 months ago for $40, would you try to sell it for $70? If you come across a case of ASM 300's for a $10 a pop- would you sell with only replacement cost or would you try to move them at a good price.

You are right about eBay that there are other costs involved but not that different then the other costs involved ( shipping etc..) then ordering comics from a dealer who ships them to me. Time is definitley money when it comes to eBay and that is very good point.

So what are you asking for your TOS49? I have a the nicest House of Secrets 92 (in 9.6 or better) that I would ask a pretty penny for- so I can relate to the real hard to find issues.

 

[lighthouse]

As far as the case of ASM 300 goes, I would likely liquidate them at the current wholesale price until I got down to my model stock, which is currently four copies for that issue.

 

On harder to find items, the choice to move them at the current market or price based on replacement comes down to what my model stock is for the item.

 

With TOS 49, I choose to keep 3 mid-grade or better copies in stock at all times. So if I am around 3 copies in stock, my pricing will be based on replacement. If I get in a copy of TTA 35, which is a comic I make no special effort to keep in stock, I will usually sell the copy at whatever the prevailing market bears (ie a no-reserve auction). The difference is that I actively pursue additional copies of TOS 49 and wind up paying more for them.

 

As to my price on the Angel book, it may as well not be for sale, because I would not choose to sell it until I knew what it would take to replace it. And the only way for that to happen is for me to buy another one... But to give you an idea I have paid more than double NM guide for three different unslabbed copies...

[awe4one]

This are from my personal collection

 

Why does this matter? All of the comics on your website could be said to be "from your collection". The customer couldn't care less and prices shouldn't be adjusted higher because of this. Tomega makes an excellent point. Why are your, and other high end dealers, prices so high? The prices and claims of overhead, etc don't match. It seems some dealers are working (whether right or wrong) within a "Tiffany" network which either caters to extreme high end collectors that don't know any better or don't want to be bothered. Each trying to outprice the other.

 

 

Jim

[uclapeterg]

Ok, are the holidays really getting to people or what? Please everyone calm down, ok?

 

As for this topic, I think it's simple: dealers price a book for what they want to get paid for it -- if it doesn't move, then they might lower it or maybe they will wait until the right buyer comes along (if they don't need cash at the moment). Why is that such a hard concept for people to understand? Most dealers have spent the time to build up a pretty good customer base and because of that, they really can set a price at what they feel they can get.

 

It sounds to me that people are jealous because they can't get a book they want at a "fair" (in their own minds) price -- in reality, the dealer is thinking "fair" in terms of their entire customer base and a person is only thinking what is fair to them (one person's viewpoint).

 

I feel that dealers are reasonable people too. If they are getting complaints from a lot of people about their prices, then they might lower them to keep a good reputation in the industry. Bob lowered his prices on the FF 49's (as well as many others) just because he was getting complaints.

 

MOHO.

 

Peter

[Tomega]

I think everyone is pretty calm, do you really think that anyone here is jealous about a comic book price? Sounds a bit of stretch, but that is one person's viewpoint. The fact is that one can get the book they want at a fair price. As you can see there are many legitimate points on both sides. A lot of people in the forum have no problem about castigating Mile High Comics ( myself included - believe me I am no fan of them) about their prices on comics, especially CGC, but seem to have a problem when it is a little critical other dealers.

You are right, most dealers are reasonable and professional. Case in point is Highgradecomics, I was surprised he changed his prices so fast. It just goes to show that he is a true professional. I do not think he did it totally because of what was said here but because he felt that it was good business. Now if he can work on those X-men prices........hehe.

[blazingbob]

Personal collection = Emotional attachment. On my website I clearly state on my buying page that I understand collector's "emotional attachments". Why can't I have the same thing? If someone meets my price I sell the book, if not it stays in my collection. Others have said the same thing so making the below comment does factor into what someone would price a book at. I love the Fantastic Four, it's my favorite title and I've spent years putting together the run. I have waited years to find particular issues so quite frankly "price" doesn't have much to do with it when I decide to sell it. And the reason I sell something is sometimes driven by the need to buy something else at the moment, for example a House.

[blazingbob]

Sorry if I am picking on you.

 

Which X-Men prices? The Byrne issues? I hate to say it but I haven't slabbed and raw Byrne issues in awhile. Sorry, but as I've stated - Me, Myself and I doesn't always go in and question why something doesn't sell. I don't adjust my prices once I've put them up unless I am completed bored or don't have anything else that requires my time. And quite frankly I have a 2200 Bronze age collection that I purchased 5 months ago that still hasn't been graded. That and the 900 book Silver Age DC collection I just bought. And the 100 CGC books I just finished shipping to meet peoples Christmas holiday's. Don't I get a break? Can I be lazy for once and somebody cut me some slack?

[localshop]

The difference between Mile High Comics and Highgradecomics is that the perception is that MHC sell overpriced, overgraded POS! Also, the gap between MHCs prices and the rest of the world are TRULY out of whack! Exhibit A: Daredevil 1 CGC 5.0 for $2560. Only $2000 out of line with current prices.

 

Further, I disagree with you on why Bob lowered his prices. This is not the first thread in which he has been attacked with regards to prices. He must be absolutely sick to death of this by now, and so made a gesture to shut people up. Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth here Bob!

 

To recap on this. We live in a market economy here folks. If you don't like the prices that Bob charges, then don't pay them. And good luck finding it somewhere else. If you could find the items elsewhere for cheaper, THIS WOULD NOT COME UP AS A TOPIC OF CONVERSATION!!

[blazingbob]

I do agree with the statement that I hope that people can find books somewhere else cheaper. If I were such a [!@#%^&^] why am I one of the few sites where I give you access to competitors websites? If some were still in business - Nearmint.com for example and if Marnin (Collectorsassemble.net) wasn't such a [!@#%^&^] for burying my link in the dungeon of his site I would give you more. I provide references if you ask me, I give opinions if you are not sure of the seller and answer as many of your questions as honestly as I can. To which I say I cannot please everybody and I'm sorry that I can't.

[g-man]

I dealt recently with Bob at the boston show. We looked over several books and talked about grading, prices,ebay,etc. Now I have met and talked with him several times in the past along with Ted from Superworld but only occasionally made a deal with him. We talked about one of his cgc books on his board and he gave me a good price (roughly 25% less than the sticker price). Now if i see a book on his site that i need, i have no problem emailing him or giving him a call to make an offer. So what if he says "can't do it for that price" or most likely hje will give me a counter offer and we can go from there. For a guy to do update his site and move the inventory he does, that is pretty good service to his customers. Sure I have thought in the past that some of his books might be high but so what. If he comes down to a price I feel is a good one, fine. If not, I just move on. No big deal. For people to get all upset over 1 or 2 books is stupid.

People are constantly rippin me over what I ask or whati buy for but i have given good deals to people but they never post that on these boards or if i buy a book for what they are asking, no one states that either. Just because I won't pay what the seller "thinks" is the going rate that makes me a cheap [!@#%^&^]. Maybe next time I will talk about the book not being "centered enough" or "i don't liek the page quallity to be ow" or some other non-sense. Maybe that will work.

[Kevin76]

I will say this about Bob,even though I hardly ever buy from him;I do know a few things.I could write Bob a check for 10K,Mail it off,and not worry about if Im going to get my book(s) or not.I feel much safer sending Bob a check for $1000+ than some insufficiently_thoughtful_person on eBay with a perfect feedback rating.As far as his prices go,I don't question them,Bob does pay fairly well for books he really wants.He's not going to pay insane amounts of cash like a Heritage auction but it is a fair offer.

Imagine if you were a dealer,If you don't pay reasonable prices for peoples books,no one will sell to you,if no one sells to you,you don't have anything to sell to your customers then if that happens,it's time to go back to your day job (or night job in my case) Now that you have bought x amount of books to sell to your customers,you now have to make a profit on them.Then once someone is intrested in that book you just bought,they try and talk you down and get mad at you.Sorry..dealers aren't here from 2000 miles from home to sit here for 8 hours ata show over the weekend to give it away.Prices are a factor of a number of things,demand,price paid,rarity,grade ect..

I personally don't know how bob does it,The man works a day job,takes care of his daughter,attends every major show,keeps on his site,buys books,sells books,mails out books,answers your stupid questions,gives advice and on top of all that still finds time to stick up for himself on these CGC boards.Actually Bob is very organized from what i have seen,He stays on top of his want lists cause you know once you fill out a want list from any other dealer...it never gets fill AND you never hear anything regarding it.I give Bob alot of credit considering he doesn't have 8 arms.Just give him a break will you people? Every dealer has his/her personal collection,would you like it if Bob tried to bug you everyday about you selling him your favorite books,and believe me Bob's collection Crushes just about anyone else's collection on these boards. Kevin