I'm sure this thread exists somewhere.....

[ComicConnoisseur]

As I stated I love TMNT but they were or never will be as big as Walking Dead is now.

If they come out with a brand new TMNT movie it would do Green Lantern box office right now.

 

How old are you? Were you alive in 1989? TMNT was on bedspreads, skateboards, curtains, foam soap, t-shirts, wallpaper, ice cream cakes, multiple video games. It had a cartoon, a feature film and a brand new comic series through Archie. TMNT action figures did million and millions in sales. Grandparents knew who TMNT were. TMNT became part of the entire US collective unconscious. 3 or 4 million people watch the Walking Dead on a cable show. I would be willing to bet the Neilsen rating on the afternoon cartoon was higher than that.

 

What you are saying about WD compared to TMNT is so wrong that there needs to be a word coined for uber-wrongness just to adequately sum up how wrong you are.

and easy response.

Tarzan,Lone Ranger and Flash Gordon all were on bedspreads, skateboards, curtains, foam soap, t-shirts, wallpaper, ice cream cakes, multiple video games. They had a cartoon, a feature film and a brand new comic series, yet if I would ask you if they were more popular than TMNT right now what would your answer be?

now fast forward after your done answering the TMNT equation then ask yourself the same question about Walking Dead,and you will find my reasoning for my Walking Dead answer!

I love nerd fights

 

This is what you actually said:

 

Why Walking Dead #1 beats TMNT #1 is obvious is it is much hotter than TMNT ever was. We can be as nostalgic all we want for the 1980s, but TMNT was never as popular as the Walking Dead is right now.

 

 

So once we get away from your straw men, the issue, again, is whether the TMNT were ever as "hot" as WD is now. You can look at it in terms of terms of Q rating, merchandising dollars, amount of merchandise available, advertising placements, anything you want to look at and TMNT will win by a landslide. By a landslide

 

Toy Story was hotter than than WD. Cars was hotter than WD. Hell, Mulan was hotter than WD.

 

All of them are eclipsed by the TMNT phenomenon.

I give you that it was a phenomenon, but it is not really one now, just like Tarzan,Flash Gordon, and Lone Ranger were phenomenons pre-1970s.

For proof lets look at the recent TMNT box office numbers.

TMNT 2007

Domestic Total Gross: $54,149,098

Foreign $41,459,897

 

= Worldwide: $95,608,995

 

So yeah it was a phenomenon during the 1980s, just like Tarzan,Flash Gordon, and Lone Ranger were phenomenons pre-1970s, but they are not now.

Hence Walking Dead #1 is a bigger grail now than TMNT #1.

 

[chrisco37]

I give you that it was a phenomenon, but it is not really one now, just like Tarzan,Flash Gordon, and Lone Ranger were phenomenons pre-1970s.

For proof lets look at the recent TMNT box office numbers,

TMNT 2007

Domestic Total Gross: $54,149,098

Foreign $41,459,897

 

= Worldwide: $95,608,995

 

So yeah it was a phenomenon during the 1980s, just like Tarzan,Flash Gordon, and Lone Ranger were phenomenon pre-1970s, but they are not now.

Hence Walking Dead #1 is a bigger grail now than TMNT #1.

 

Besides you, who is saying that? I don't see anyone in this thread echoing that thought.

[ThoseBackPages]

Do kids even care about WD the tv show? never mind the comic book.

[VintageComics]

I sold 2 copies of TWD #1 in one day but didn't sell any Hulk #181's that day.

 

Does that make TWD more popular than Wolverine?

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

I give you that it was a phenomenon, but it is not really one now, just like Tarzan,Flash Gordon, and Lone Ranger were phenomenons pre-1970s.

For proof lets look at the recent TMNT box office numbers,

TMNT 2007

Domestic Total Gross: $54,149,098

Foreign $41,459,897

 

= Worldwide: $95,608,995

 

So yeah it was a phenomenon during the 1980s, just like Tarzan,Flash Gordon, and Lone Ranger were phenomenon pre-1970s, but they are not now.

Hence Walking Dead #1 is a bigger grail now than TMNT #1.

 

Besides you, who is saying that? I don't see anyone in this thread echoing that thought.

and they don`t have to echo my thoughts. I bought gold at $600 an ounce and Apple stock at $257 a share,so I feel secure in my business thoughts.

TMNT#1 is a great pick, but I just think Walking Dead #1 is just slightly better.

I would pick them both over Incredible Hulk #181 btw.

[VintageComics]

and they don`t have to echo my thoughts. I bought gold at 600 an ounce and Apple stock at 257 a share,so I feel secure in my business thoughts.

TMNT#1 is a great pick, but I just think Walking Dead #1 is just slightly better.

I would pick them both over Incredible Hulk #181 btw.

 

Nobody is talking business investment, just which keys best represent each era.

 

Two entirely different things.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

and they don`t have to echo my thoughts. I bought gold at 600 an ounce and Apple stock at 257 a share,so I feel secure in my business thoughts.

TMNT#1 is a great pick, but I just think Walking Dead #1 is just slightly better.

I would pick them both over Incredible Hulk #181 btw.

 

Nobody is talking business investment, just which keys best represent each era.

Two entirely different things.

 

and the answers are

TMNT#1 represents the copper age.

Walking Dead #1 represents the modern age.

 

[Ryan.]

No, this conversation turned into: What is/was a more culturally relevant property in its time, Walking Dead or TMNT? I don't actually believe that anyone would choose WD in this debate so I'll assume ComicConnoisseur is arguing merely for fun.

[Ryan.]

For proof lets look at the recent TMNT box office numbers.

TMNT 2007

Domestic Total Gross: $54,149,098

Foreign $41,459,897

 

= Worldwide: $95,608,995

 

So yeah it was a phenomenon during the 1980s, just like Tarzan,Flash Gordon, and Lone Ranger were phenomenons pre-1970s, but they are not now.

Hence Walking Dead #1 is a bigger grail now than TMNT #1.

 

 

I'm not sure what these numbers are supposed to show. That the last TMNT movie did well? If someone offered me a TMNT 1 in any grade straight up for a WD 1 in equal grade, I would make that trade and run all the way home to tell Grandpa Joe about the golden ticket I just scored.

[ComicConnoisseur]

For proof lets look at the recent TMNT box office numbers.

TMNT 2007

Domestic Total Gross: $54,149,098

Foreign $41,459,897

 

= Worldwide: $95,608,995

 

So yeah it was a phenomenon during the 1980s, just like Tarzan,Flash Gordon, and Lone Ranger were phenomenons pre-1970s, but they are not now.

Hence Walking Dead #1 is a bigger grail now than TMNT #1.

 

 

I'm not sure what these numbers are supposed to show. That the last TMNT movie did well? If someone offered me a TMNT 1 in any grade straight up for a WD 1 in equal grade, I would make that trade and run all the way home to tell Grandpa Joe about the golden ticket I just scored.

You would have lost LOTS of money if you used that business strategy one year ago because the amount of money you spent on that one issue of TMNT #1 could have went for multiple copies of WD#1.

 

[Ryan.]

For proof lets look at the recent TMNT box office numbers.

TMNT 2007

Domestic Total Gross: $54,149,098

Foreign $41,459,897

 

= Worldwide: $95,608,995

 

So yeah it was a phenomenon during the 1980s, just like Tarzan,Flash Gordon, and Lone Ranger were phenomenons pre-1970s, but they are not now.

Hence Walking Dead #1 is a bigger grail now than TMNT #1.

 

 

I'm not sure what these numbers are supposed to show. That the last TMNT movie did well? If someone offered me a TMNT 1 in any grade straight up for a WD 1 in equal grade, I would make that trade and run all the way home to tell Grandpa Joe about the golden ticket I just scored.

You would have lost LOTS of money if you used that business strategy one year ago because the amount of money you spent on that one issue of TMNT #1 could have went for multiple copies of WD#1.

 

You've seen the prices of TMNT 1s lately, yes?

[ComicConnoisseur]

No, this conversation turned into: What is/was a more culturally relevant property in its time, Walking Dead or TMNT? I don't actually believe that anyone would choose WD in this debate so I'll assume ComicConnoisseur is arguing merely for fun.

Not arguing at all just stating my opinion.

Like I said I like TMNT,Walking Dead and Wolverine about the same. I am just saying I think WD #1 has eclipsed TMNT #1 and about to eclipse Incredible Hulk #181 as a must have grail.

I hope nobody`s taking it personal,as its not like I am saying your character sucks and mine is better.

This debate is purely about what I think is the bigger phenomenon now and better investment pick.

 

[Ryan.]

No, this conversation turned into: What is/was a more culturally relevant property in its time, Walking Dead or TMNT? I don't actually believe that anyone would choose WD in this debate so I'll assume ComicConnoisseur is arguing merely for fun.

Not arguing at all just stating my opinion.

Like I said I like TMNT,Walking Dead and Wolverine about the same. I am just saying I think WD #1 has eclipsed TMNT #1 and about to eclipse Incredible Hulk #181 as a must have grail.

I hope nobody`s taking it personal,as its not like I am saying your character sucks and mine is better.

This debate is purely about what I think is the bigger phenomenon now and better investment pick.

 

Well I take this personally. VERY personally.

[ComicConnoisseur]

No, this conversation turned into: What is/was a more culturally relevant property in its time, Walking Dead or TMNT? I don't actually believe that anyone would choose WD in this debate so I'll assume ComicConnoisseur is arguing merely for fun.

Not arguing at all just stating my opinion.

Like I said I like TMNT,Walking Dead and Wolverine about the same. I am just saying I think WD #1 has eclipsed TMNT #1 and about to eclipse Incredible Hulk #181 as a must have grail.

I hope nobody`s taking it personal,as its not like I am saying your character sucks and mine is better.

This debate is purely about what I think is the bigger phenomenon now and better investment pick.

 

Well I take this personally. VERY personally.

[DeliBebek]

It would not be a good poll because the majority of Walking Dead fans never heard of this board. It would be biased. I could say lets do a Hunger Games vs Deadpool poll and of course Deadpool would win here,but he wouldn`t win at the movie box office.

Actually for fun if you want to have the poll make it with TMNT,so TMNT #1,Hulk #181, and Walking Dead #1.

I am now curious what the results will be.

Walking Dead fans unite!

 

Walking Dead "fans" are not buying Walking Dead #1's. Comic book collectors are.

 

TMNT #1 and Hulk #181 would pummel WD #1 in that poll.

 

If you have followed EBay this last month you will find that WD has pummeled

Wolverine and Turtles comic books.

 

How old are you? Were you old enough to know what was going on during the TMNT craze?

 

I was a teenager during the 80's and TMNT was WAAAAY more popular than WD is right now, not even close imo! I never really understood their appeal and still dont but there wasnt a single kid in my school that didnt have a TMNT lunchbox, shirt, shoes, toys and god knows what else.

My college dorm room had a TMNT poster on the wall.

[seanfingh]

This debate is purely about what I think is the bigger phenomenon now and better investment pick.

 

That is what the debate is about NOW, after your original thesis was shot full of holes.

 

[DeliBebek]

No, this conversation turned into: What is/was a more culturally relevant property in its time, Walking Dead or TMNT? I don't actually believe that anyone would choose WD in this debate so I'll assume ComicConnoisseur is arguing merely for fun.

Not arguing at all just stating my opinion.

Like I said I like TMNT,Walking Dead and Wolverine about the same. I am just saying I think WD #1 has eclipsed TMNT #1 and about to eclipse Incredible Hulk #181 as a must have grail.

I hope nobody`s taking it personal,as its not like I am saying your character sucks and mine is better.

This debate is purely about what I think is the bigger phenomenon now and better investment pick.

Here's a different yardstick. Eastman and Laird really struck gold when the characters were picked up for a cartoon show and being creators, holding the license, they reaped major benefits from that.

 

How long did it take McFarlane to get a Spawn cartoon on the air? How long did it take Lee to get WildC.A.T.S. or Larsen to get Savage Dragon in cartoon form?

 

I know those cartoons weren't so successful, but it's clear they were attempting to follow the formula that Eastman and Laird accidentally created. This example speaks to the secondary influence of the key nature of TMNT. It's why TMNT #1 is a key issue and not just a high-priced back issue. Keys hold their value in the long term because they're keys. That's the proof, in my opinion.

[comicwiz]

No, this conversation turned into: What is/was a more culturally relevant property in its time, Walking Dead or TMNT? I don't actually believe that anyone would choose WD in this debate so I'll assume ComicConnoisseur is arguing merely for fun.

Not arguing at all just stating my opinion.

Like I said I like TMNT,Walking Dead and Wolverine about the same. I am just saying I think WD #1 has eclipsed TMNT #1 and about to eclipse Incredible Hulk #181 as a must have grail.

I hope nobody`s taking it personal,as its not like I am saying your character sucks and mine is better.

This debate is purely about what I think is the bigger phenomenon now and better investment pick.

Here's a different yardstick. Eastman and Laird really struck gold when the characters were picked up for a cartoon show and being creators, holding the license, they reaped major benefits from that.

 

How long did it take McFarlane to get a Spawn cartoon on the air? How long did it take Lee to get WildC.A.T.S. or Larsen to get Savage Dragon in cartoon form?

 

I know those cartoons weren't so successful, but it's clear they were attempting to follow the formula that Eastman and Laird accidentally created. This example speaks to the secondary influence of the key nature of TMNT. It's why TMNT #1 is a key issue and not just a high-priced back issue. Keys hold their value in the long term because they're keys. That's the proof, in my opinion.

 

Undergrounds in general had a lot more to do with paving the way for independent publishing, and even Cerebus can be credited with having far more influence and impact than TMNT. The only thing keeping the first prints desirability trait is demand exceeding supply, mixed with memories.

[Ryan.]

Undergrounds in general had a lot more to do with paving the way for independent publishing, and even Cerebus can be credited with having far more influence and impact than TMNT. The only thing keeping the first prints desirability trait is demand exceeding supply, mixed with memories.

 

Sooo...the only thing keeping TMNT 1 in demand is...demand?

[chrisco37]

This debate is purely about what I think is the bigger phenomenon now and better investment pick.

 

That is what the debate is about NOW, after your original thesis was shot full of holes.

 

 

Maybe WD is the bigger phenomenon right this second, but not over the long haul. If you look at the past history of each of the 3 books, WD phenomenon still ranks #3 on that list. It's almost at #100. Heck, there was a time when Wolverine was in that many books per month.

 

As far as investment goes, I'd take Turtles #1 or Hulk #181 over WD #1 for investment purposes as well. WD#1 might beat those books on a quick flip, but those prices are thru the roof right now, so I don't know how much you'd really expect to make on that. Unless some sap didn't know what they had (but you could make that arguement about the other 2 books as well).

 

Over the longhaul (say 10 years), Hulk and Turtles are proven books. WD might have that kind of staying power, but it's the proverbial hot potato compared to the other 2.