How Does This Book Get a 9.8 Yellow Label?

[Lebowski]

I always thought it said the name, like " Gene Somonoko written on front cover "

 

 

Only when the signature is legible, I believe.

[bababooey]

I think that was the death of ultimate spiderman issue, the certificate was the back cover & cgc made an exception for those to be yellow; this was the bagged, black logo Hickman signed Torch death issue & no arrangements were made with cgc to accept them as verified sigs.

 

As long as there's one verified sig, doesn't it go yellow regardless of whether there's an unverified one to make it green.

 

It does stay yellow, but other peoples books with unverified sigs were dropped to 7.5 when the unverified sig was considered as a defect.

I have no idea what impact an unverified signature has on grade (I think I saw the drop you are referring to here a couple weeks ago) but I think the unverified signature is only a factor when it's a blue label. My understanding is that these yellow or green labels are both 'qualified' grades - meaning they both ignore the signature as a defect.

 

You're right that yellow and green labels are both Qualified, and an unverified signature will be ignored on a green label, just like it a verified signature will be ignored on a yellow label book (when it comes to the grade).

 

An unverified signature on the cover of a yellow label book will not be ignored, however - it's treated as a grade-dropping defect, and should have dropped the grade on this book to 7.5 - 8.0 or so. Just like a missing page on a yellow label book drops the grade to a 0.5 even though the missing page would have been ignored if the holder had been green.

 

It's a mistake from CGC's side - that's all.

Thanks for the clarification.

So considering the circumstances with this particular book (CGC knows the unverified signature was done prior to the book being bagged & the signed version is unique w/black logo) - is it possible that CGC looks upon this particular type of signature in marker as something done in production?

[.Troy]

I always thought it said the name, like " Gene Somonoko written on front cover "

 

 

Only when the signature is legible, I believe.

 

Thanks Lebowski

[.Troy]

I think that was the death of ultimate spiderman issue, the certificate was the back cover & cgc made an exception for those to be yellow; this was the bagged, black logo Hickman signed Torch death issue & no arrangements were made with cgc to accept them as verified sigs.

 

As long as there's one verified sig, doesn't it go yellow regardless of whether there's an unverified one to make it green.

 

It does stay yellow, but other peoples books with unverified sigs were dropped to 7.5 when the unverified sig was considered as a defect.

I have no idea what impact an unverified signature has on grade (I think I saw the drop you are referring to here a couple weeks ago) but I think the unverified signature is only a factor when it's a blue label. My understanding is that these yellow or green labels are both 'qualified' grades - meaning they both ignore the signature as a defect.

 

You're right that yellow and green labels are both Qualified, and an unverified signature will be ignored on a green label, just like it a verified signature will be ignored on a yellow label book (when it comes to the grade).

 

An unverified signature on the cover of a yellow label book will not be ignored, however - it's treated as a grade-dropping defect, and should have dropped the grade on this book to 7.5 - 8.0 or so. Just like a missing page on a yellow label book drops the grade to a 0.5 even though the missing page would have been ignored if the holder had been green.

 

It's a mistake from CGC's side - that's all.

Thanks for the clarification.

So considering the circumstances with this particular book (CGC knows the unverified signature was done prior to the book being bagged & the signed version is unique w/black logo) - is it possible that CGC looks upon this particular type of signature in marker as something done in production?

 

This issue came up with a book I had that was getting done. Only 30 or so were made, and everyone was signed by the artist before leaving the factory, so you knew it was authentic. I talked with cgc and they said, qualified or SS with a grade drop.

 

 

[mschmidt]

i believe the ff#587 regular issues 1st print were all sold polybagged. now a selected few of these were signed before the were bagged. When a customer purchased this book there was no way of knowing if you got a signed or unsigned book because they were all polybagged the same, it was pot luck. if the booked was unbagged right in front of Stan Lee with a CGC witness present maybe they did not give any grade reduction because of this situation.

 

this may be correct or it may not . it's just a possibility.

 

It's not - it's a mistake.

 

CGC is totally black & white on this issue - it doesn't matter how minty the book is, it's not going to come back a 9.8 with an unverified cover sig unless it's in a green label slab.

[mschmidt]

I believe this was the polybag variant that was signed by the artist and randomly inserted.

 

Stan signed it which was "witnessed" to get yellow.

 

The previous sig was a defect that brought the grade down from a 10.0 to a 9.8.

 

For an unverified sig on the cover you're talking about a huge grade drop - think 9.8 to 7.5 :thumbsup:

 

 

That seems excessive. I have a book with one unverified signature and one verified one and it is still a 9.0

 

Care to show it off?

 

There's no question the size & type of signature influences the grade (eg. a giant marker signature will drop the grade much more severely than a thin pencil sig), but it's also dependent on the actual grade of the book in question - for low grade books, a signature won't really do much as it's just one of several defects that are already factored into the grade.

 

For high grade books, however, every single example I've seen suffered a severe grade drop.

[.Troy]

I would like to see it as well. I heard of a 8.5, but never seen it.

[bababooey]

The census shows one of the signed variants in 9.8 as yellow label (third group down) - I guess this isn't just a "wrong paper colour error" it's a misinterpretation of their own rules and a misgrade.

Awesome.

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/census/grades_standard.asp?title=Fantastic+Four&publisher=Marvel+Comics&issue=587&year=2011&issuedate=3%2F11

[WordSlinger]

I believe this was the polybag variant that was signed by the artist and randomly inserted.

 

Stan signed it which was "witnessed" to get yellow.

 

The previous sig was a defect that brought the grade down from a 10.0 to a 9.8.

 

For an unverified sig on the cover you're talking about a huge grade drop - think 9.8 to 7.5 :thumbsup:

 

 

That seems excessive. I have a book with one unverified signature and one verified one and it is still a 9.0

 

Care to show it off?

 

There's no question the size & type of signature influences the grade (eg. a giant marker signature will drop the grade much more severely than a thin pencil sig), but it's also dependent on the actual grade of the book in question - for low grade books, a signature won't really do much as it's just one of several defects that are already factored into the grade.

 

For high grade books, however, every single example I've seen suffered a severe grade drop.

 

 

Sure thing, my scanner sucks but I just snapped two quick pics with my camera.

 

 

Closeup of the label

 

Book was a 9.6 with the first signature and message on it from Betsy Russel, I decide months later to add Cary Elwes to it, but his signature was not verified so the book dropped from a 9.6 to 9.0. If he sees this thread, Andy (GACollectibles) can verify this info.

 

[.Troy]

Thanks for showing!

[Deacon Blackfire-migration]

The books were signed before being sealed, thus making them "new" or "unopened". So basically, you had 2 versions of the comic printed - books with sigs, books without - but they would both be viewed with the same CGC criteria. Think of it as an alternate cover.

[HuBu]

The books were signed before being sealed, thus making them "new" or "unopened". So basically, you had 2 versions of the comic printed - books with sigs, books without - but they would both be viewed with the same CGC criteria. Think of it as an alternate cover.

 

Note the "Signed Edition" on the label. This is exactly how CGC is viewing it.

[somewhereintexas]

The books were signed before being sealed, thus making them "new" or "unopened". So basically, you had 2 versions of the comic printed - books with sigs, books without - but they would both be viewed with the same CGC criteria. Think of it as an alternate cover.

 

It already is an alternate cover. The regular cover had a blue logo, and the signed cover had a black logo. Every other black logo copy that has been submitted for grading has received a green "qualified" label. Stan Lee signing it in front of a CAW or CGC employee shouldn't somehow magically change how the "defect" (Jonathan Hickman autograph) is treated.

[HuBu]

The books were signed before being sealed, thus making them "new" or "unopened". So basically, you had 2 versions of the comic printed - books with sigs, books without - but they would both be viewed with the same CGC criteria. Think of it as an alternate cover.

 

It already is an alternate cover. The regular cover had a blue logo, and the signed cover had a black logo. Every other black logo copy that has been submitted for grading has received a green "qualified" label. Stan Lee signing it in front of a CAW or CGC employee shouldn't somehow magically change how the "defect" (Jonathan Hickman autograph) is treated.

 

CGC should reslab those as blue. Is there a picture of said green label? Does it call out that its a signed edition?

[seanfingh]

The books were signed before being sealed, thus making them "new" or "unopened". So basically, you had 2 versions of the comic printed - books with sigs, books without - but they would both be viewed with the same CGC criteria. Think of it as an alternate cover.

 

You could think of it like that, except that would be wrong. (thumbs u

[Lebowski]

Book was a 9.6 with the first signature and message on it from Betsy Russel, I decide months later to add Cary Elwes to it, but his signature was not verified so the book dropped from a 9.6 to 9.0. If he sees this thread, Andy (GACollectibles) can verify this info.

 

I know it's early and I haven't finished my coffee, but how was this book cracked out of a yellow slab, signed again without SS authentication, and then allowed to receive the yellow label again? Once the slab is cracked, unless done by a CAW/facilitator/CGC employee, doesn't the authenticity guarantee become null and void and the book would get a green label?

[Lebowski]

The books were signed before being sealed, thus making them "new" or "unopened". So basically, you had 2 versions of the comic printed - books with sigs, books without - but they would both be viewed with the same CGC criteria. Think of it as an alternate cover.

 

It already is an alternate cover. The regular cover had a blue logo, and the signed cover had a black logo. Every other black logo copy that has been submitted for grading has received a green "qualified" label. Stan Lee signing it in front of a CAW or CGC employee shouldn't somehow magically change how the "defect" (Jonathan Hickman autograph) is treated.

 

CGC should reslab those as blue. Is there a picture of said green label? Does it call out that its a signed edition?

 

Here's the census page for the issue. Note that all have received green labels but this one.

 

[mschmidt]

The books were signed before being sealed, thus making them "new" or "unopened". So basically, you had 2 versions of the comic printed - books with sigs, books without - but they would both be viewed with the same CGC criteria. Think of it as an alternate cover.

 

It already is an alternate cover. The regular cover had a blue logo, and the signed cover had a black logo. Every other black logo copy that has been submitted for grading has received a green "qualified" label. Stan Lee signing it in front of a CAW or CGC employee shouldn't somehow magically change how the "defect" (Jonathan Hickman autograph) is treated.

 

CGC should reslab those as blue. Is there a picture of said green label? Does it call out that its a signed edition?

 

No, they shouldn't. It's a book with an unverified cover signature which means it belongs in a green slab.

 

If you look at the CGC census, all the other copies of the "signed edition" of this book have the correct green labels.

[WordSlinger]

Book was a 9.6 with the first signature and message on it from Betsy Russel, I decide months later to add Cary Elwes to it, but his signature was not verified so the book dropped from a 9.6 to 9.0. If he sees this thread, Andy (GACollectibles) can verify this info.

 

I know it's early and I haven't finished my coffee, but how was this book cracked out of a yellow slab, signed again without SS authentication, and then allowed to receive the yellow label again? Once the slab is cracked, unless done by a CAW/facilitator/CGC employee, doesn't the authenticity guarantee become null and void and the book would get a green label?

 

It was done by a CAW.

[HuBu]

The books were signed before being sealed, thus making them "new" or "unopened". So basically, you had 2 versions of the comic printed - books with sigs, books without - but they would both be viewed with the same CGC criteria. Think of it as an alternate cover.

 

It already is an alternate cover. The regular cover had a blue logo, and the signed cover had a black logo. Every other black logo copy that has been submitted for grading has received a green "qualified" label. Stan Lee signing it in front of a CAW or CGC employee shouldn't somehow magically change how the "defect" (Jonathan Hickman autograph) is treated.

 

CGC should reslab those as blue. Is there a picture of said green label? Does it call out that its a signed edition?

 

No, they shouldn't. It's a book with an unverified cover signature which means it belongs in a green slab.

 

If you look at the CGC census, all the other copies of the "signed edition" of this book have the correct green labels.

 

Michael,

 

CGC is viewing the cover with the sig on it as a signed edition, similar to a variant. If they kept it as a green, when you add a sig to it, some graders might drop the grade on it because of the signature (unlike this case).

 

The books were signed before being sealed, thus making them "new" or "unopened". So basically, you had 2 versions of the comic printed - books with sigs, books without - but they would both be viewed with the same CGC criteria. Think of it as an alternate cover.

 

You could think of it like that, except that would be wrong. (thumbs u

 

So the "Signed Edition" is because of the logo color?