• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Valiant Omnibus

Started by Nico Esq,

414 posts in this topic

Zaitsev

Zaitsev

Posted
Posted
Harbinger 4 came out today with just a reg and a pullbox. No 1:20 for the first time since the relaunch I believe.

 

And the funny thing - it is probably the best Harby yet...

 

I can't wait to read it, (or each of the new Valiant titles as they are released, although idk about A&A, the first issue was not all that interesting for whatever reason,) and I already dig the new harbinger #4 B-cover anyway. New Valiant has been consistently on point in a lot of areas so far, and artwork has been one of them imho..

Now, I enjoy variants too, but I think that they need to tone it down a little as their new titles progress past the first issue, and then bring them out for special issues after that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted
.

Now, I enjoy variants too, but I think that they need to tone it down a little as their new titles progress past the first issue, and then bring them out for special issues after that.

 

As long as they're cover price, non-incentives... they should do multiples.

It's like dealerships offering different colors for the same car.

You only need to buy one, and the price is the same... so get the one you like! :grin:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zaitsev

Zaitsev

Posted
Posted

I think that the X-O 1:50 with Ninjak on it might be worth trying to get sooner at the right number rather than later, even more so if they take a beating in shipping like the Harbinger Voice Variants did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zaitsev

Zaitsev

Posted
Posted

Nice picks man.

 

I bought some old harbinger 0-pink through 5 (still with coupons) for ten bucks each last year and though I did ok due to the coupons.

 

They are probably all 9.0 to 9.2 and the 0 pink is signed, but it' s not a fake, so I don't care.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dgarthwaite-migration

dgarthwaite-migration

Posted
Posted
I know of one misstep they made however that has soured them in my eyes as well as some others I've talked to, and that is the proliferation of hard to find variants. That was not very "collector" friendly IMHO. Speculator friendly, sure. So much so, that even DCBS has raised the price for these variants to a point to make the price to "collect them all" unreasonable. Time will tell if that will prove to have been a smart choice or not on their part.

 

I understand the concern. Let's see what the path looks like ahead and decide from there. I hope for the best.

 

:foryou:

 

That's a fair criticism, but the the original Valiant made "collect them all" nearly impossible as well.

There were 5,000 copies of Gold issues at a time when print runs were 500,000. That's 1:100, pre-internet.

 

Collectors either needed to know a dealer (who would supply them all) or have unlimited funds.

 

Yes, collectors could win Gold issues as well, but the chances of winning a dozen different Gold issues were zero... no one won all of them.

 

Only years later were most of us able to "collect them all"...

which should be reasonable for new Valiant, too, if collectors wait like they did for old Valiant.

The internet and money can pretty much supply everything.

 

I think that making excessive variants is a really short sighted gain. Harris published excessive numbers of variants for their titles and it's one of the deadest dead universes there is. Collectors need a sense of pride in what they own. Who takes pride in owning 20 covers and having only 4 different stories? I don't. If you have variants that are too rare, you limit the number of collectors who can ever take pride in owning a full set.

 

An analogy (because my perspective is anal):

Walking into a field and finding a hidden Easter egg with a prize makes the chase fun. Filling a field with Easter eggs and having them in plain view with a jacked up cost provides completely the opposite effect.

 

DG

 

Or, you could forget about the variants and just buy the regular issues and enjoy the great stories Valiant is putting out. :gossip:

 

Better yet, I can forget about buying any of their product. I am a collector. What pride would I have in owning the common worthless version of their product? The fun in collecting is having a complete set of what you enjoy. The simple truth is, excessive variants alienate collectors. It milks them out of their funds which could be supporting other characters and titles. It is very naive to think that "readers" keep this industry alive. Readers are fickle. Readers cycle in and out of the hobby every few years. Collectors are loyal and want a form of completeness to what they collect. They want their comics to retain some form of value instead of knowing they can just wait and buy that $4 comic for 25¢ in a year. Publishers are driving readers to the back issue bins where comics are much more affordable and quite often... just better quality. There is no shortage of good comics that cost less than that of any new comic being published. If simply reading the stories is why you advocate buying the average and mundane version of new comics, your suggestion still lacks any wisdom.

 

DG

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gatsby77

Gatsby77

Posted
Posted

Fair point. Particuarly because the current trajectory of Valiant print runs is pointing to 15k or so. I think the print runs will fall slightly with each new title produced, leading to at least two titles being cancelled prior to # 20.

 

I'd rather see six titles solidly at 20k each that last a year+ each than an attempt at 9 titles that ends up killing 4-5 of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dgarthwaite-migration

dgarthwaite-migration

Posted
Posted

If they can't win readers and collectors, the line is doomed regardless of whether they print 4 and 5 variants per issue. I know why they are producing variants. I just think it's short sighted. Variant covers boost the number of copies that get ordered per issue. The covers are relatively cheap to produce and they are able to make more money off of all the art inside by printing and distributing more. The advantage of producing variants is simple math until you factor what it's actually doing to the mindset of the consumer. Is it worth selling five copies of X-O #1 to an X-O fan if now he can't afford to buy Archer and Armstrong?

 

I know that the original Valiant regretted all the logistics of their coupon program, but from a marketing standpoint I really think it was brilliant. The coupon program rewarded the consumer for buying their comics by giving them a free one. It encouraged collectors to buy two IF they wanted to have a set with the coupons intact. The reader was able to get a copy of the story, but he did have to accept that his comic would be incomplete (without coupon) if he traded them in for the free comic. The coupon program got the fan base vested into the series for 6 or 8 issues, so there was less of a risk of sales numbers dropping drastically. The logistics may have been a nightmare, but I think their decision to do the coupon program was a very sound business move. The Unity #0 and #1 program also rewarded the consumer. For a company struggling to make profitable comics, giving away something for free is a gamble.

 

The bottom line is that no small publisher will last if they don't grow sales above 15K. They have to establish a fan base of readers and grow upon that. The collectors or speculators that buy the comics two and three times are the gravy sales. When comic shops order their comics each month they need to be able to look over past trends and know exactly how many are needed to cover their sales. They need to know whether 2, 5, 10, or 20 copies are needed. Tossing hard to get variants into the mix just means that customers cannot rely upon the comic shops to get them the comic they want. It means that the customer can't rely on the comic shops and the comic shops can't rely on their customers to come back for their monthly fix. Consistency and quality are necessary. Producing these 1:100 variants has a backlash on the retailer side. If a customer wants the rare version, the customer will go to whoever can get it to them or get it to them the cheapest. That severs the tie the customer has to that shop. Years ago when the industry was healthier and prices were cheaper, I think the best selling comic at my local comic shop was maybe 30-40 copies. Indy comics sold maybe 5 or less. If they have a customer that comes in insisting that they want a 1:100 variant, what is the store supposed to do to keep that demanding customer happy? Do they buy 100 copies and then dump 95 at below market prices? Do they tell their customer "no" and risk him going elsewhere? Do they jack up the price on that one comic to match the cost of 100 comics? None of these options are "good" for business. By that I mean the "big picture" of what you are trying to achieve.

 

An occasional variant is a challenge. It's like looking for the magic Easter egg. An abundance of variants is sensory overload. You see them everywhere, but none start seeming so special anymore because after awhile your collection is only as good as your pockets are deep.

 

One afterthought. I invariably get someone from New York or other area of high population density claiming they are baffled about the struggles other comic shops have. If you have 180,000 people in a 9 square mile block around your store, that's a little different than having 25% of that number. Comic shops would love to squeeze a few extra customers into their community, but mathematically they are already challenged.

 

DG

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zaitsev

Zaitsev

Posted
Posted

If you're not into reading them, but like collecting them, then maybe just watch for great deals on the really htf variants like the "gold editions". But if you have to have every one anyway, then yeah, I could see that being frustrating.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bosco685

Bosco685

Posted
Posted
If you're not into reading them, but like collecting them, then maybe just watch for great deals on the really htf variants like the "gold editions". But if you have to have every one anyway, then yeah, I could see that being frustrating.

 

 

Definitely! Especially if you are going after the tougher printings or limited distribution books like that Shadowman Black Preview. That book especially looks great for a semi-ashcan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dgarthwaite-migration

dgarthwaite-migration

Posted
Posted

The simple truth is, variants only help them if the consumer really wants to buy them all. Otherwise the volume moved does not increase and they are back to a lower number of units moved. The variants burn out collectors quickly or stick the retailers with regular versions they can't sell at cover price. When investors/speculator see the prices drop, this approach to marketing will hurt their chances of survival. The quality of the art will drop first as they try to produce the comics cheaper. From then it's just a matter of when they realize they made the mistakes. I'm less a fan of the characters and more a fan of Jim Shooter's original writing. The approach all the publishers take is a huge turn-off. My money goes into the bank instead of modern comics that have very little chance of surviving. It's no loss to me, but I know people who are a huge fan of the characters and they are really wanting them to stay in print.

 

DG

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pariah

Pariah

Posted
Posted

Valiant used variants in the kick-started relaunch, and I think it was cool to give the fans (who most of us waited a long time for this), more collectables to go after. We had been waiting many years for new Valiant goodies - so we were given some extra books to hunt down that added more excitement to the relaunch - and also gave the world some awesome artwork.

 

Now it is clear that they are slowing down the variants as more titles come out. Go take a look at most of the upcoming releases, where there are no variants, and some just have pullboxes.

 

I think it was a spot-on plan:

 

Hit the customers with great artwork and awesome stories, and throw in a bunch of extra collectables to satisfy the long-waiting fans who love to go after the collectables - it's a win win. Now that they have some solid titles flowing that people are enjoying reading and are well received, the collectors have had their thirst quenched, let's slow down the variants and concentrate on building the brand.

 

Brilliant...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing