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Valiant Omnibus

Started by Nico Esq,

414 posts in this topic

FormerReader

FormerReader

Posted
Posted

I think that making excessive variants is a really short sighted gain. Harris published excessive numbers of variants for their titles and it's one of the deadest dead universes there is. Collectors need a sense of pride in what they own. Who takes pride in owning 20 covers and having only 4 different stories? I don't. If you have variants that are too rare, you limit the number of collectors who can ever take pride in owning a full set.

 

An analogy (because my perspective is anal):

Walking into a field and finding a hidden Easter egg with a prize makes the chase fun. Filling a field with Easter eggs and having them in plain view with a jacked up cost provides completely the opposite effect.

 

DG

 

Or, you could forget about the variants and just buy the regular issues and enjoy the great stories Valiant is putting out. :gossip:

 

Better yet, I can forget about buying any of their product. I am a collector. What pride would I have in owning the common worthless version of their product? The fun in collecting is having a complete set of what you enjoy. The simple truth is, excessive variants alienate collectors. It milks them out of their funds which could be supporting other characters and titles. It is very naive to think that "readers" keep this industry alive. Readers are fickle. Readers cycle in and out of the hobby every few years. Collectors are loyal and want a form of completeness to what they collect. They want their comics to retain some form of value instead of knowing they can just wait and buy that $4 comic for 25¢ in a year. Publishers are driving readers to the back issue bins where comics are much more affordable and quite often... just better quality. There is no shortage of good comics that cost less than that of any new comic being published. If simply reading the stories is why you advocate buying the average and mundane version of new comics, your suggestion still lacks any wisdom.

 

DG

 

That is your choice. I hope you continue to support them though as I think they are a good company. I buy them because I enjoy reading them. I don't expect them to raise in value. If they do great if they don't I'm ok with that. I am paying for the entertainment.

 

If you like collecting them that's ok. Why not just pick certain variants to collect? Why is it Valiant's fault that people don't like that there are too many variants? What about the people that don't like any variants? Should they stop making any? Valiant is only doing what they think is required in order to succeed.

 

I hate to tell you collector's are much more fickle than readers. You're a collector who is already talking about not buying their product after a few months after their release.

 

You are entitled to your opinion. All I'm saying is the quality of the content is much more important then the number of the variants they put out.

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FormerReader

FormerReader

Posted
Posted

The bottom line is that no small publisher will last if they don't grow sales above 15K. They have to establish a fan base of readers and grow upon that. The collectors or speculators that buy the comics two and three times are the gravy sales.

DG

 

 

I agree with this. I think what they are doing with the well written and well drawn titles will hopefully increase the numbers of readers. You may be correct that maybe the number of variants will turn people off. I don't argue that point. For me though the key is first to win the "readers". Once the "readers" are there then the demand will grow and then the "speculators" will come.

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dgarthwaite-migration

dgarthwaite-migration

Posted
Posted
More Valiant books sold out:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/17/third-prints-of-archer-armstrong-and-second-prints-of-harbinger-with-print-runs

 

My guess is that Valiant will keep these "in print" (and orderable) in some version until the trade paperbacks are released.

 

It really sounds like either they have no clue on how to anticipate orders or the retailers supporting them are flat out inept. I suspect it's neither. I suspect they just like printing extra covers.

 

DG

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dgarthwaite-migration

dgarthwaite-migration

Posted
Posted
Valiant used variants in the kick-started relaunch, and I think it was cool to give the fans (who most of us waited a long time for this), more collectables to go after. We had been waiting many years for new Valiant goodies - so we were given some extra books to hunt down that added more excitement to the relaunch - and also gave the world some awesome artwork.

 

Now it is clear that they are slowing down the variants as more titles come out. Go take a look at most of the upcoming releases, where there are no variants, and some just have pullboxes.

 

I think it was a spot-on plan:

 

Hit the customers with great artwork and awesome stories, and throw in a bunch of extra collectables to satisfy the long-waiting fans who love to go after the collectables - it's a win win. Now that they have some solid titles flowing that people are enjoying reading and are well received, the collectors have had their thirst quenched, let's slow down the variants and concentrate on building the brand.

 

Brilliant...

 

Applaud if they are slowing down or getting rid of variants.

 

DG

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dgarthwaite-migration

dgarthwaite-migration

Posted
Posted
I hate to tell you collector's are much more fickle than readers. You're a collector who is already talking about not buying their product after a few months after their release.

 

I'm a collector who can't stand any modern comics. The pacing is horrible and wastes my time. They colors are gaudy. The prices are outrageous. The covers give no insight to the contents inside. Most look like a Sears family portrait. Chests are all poked out. The characters all look haughty or brooding. Most modern comics don't even need art to accompany them. It adds nothing to the story other than dragging it out further.

 

Collectors stick with a title just to have completeness. They'll collect through bad stories and art because they take pride in having a complete set. Collectors have a vested interest in protecting their comics. Readers are far less loyal. A writer or artist can switch to another company and they're gone. I can count 50 comic readers that have abandoned buying comics for every steadfast and dedicated collector I know.

 

Just enjoy the comics while you have them. Order numbers are dropping with or without variants. They're dropping despite all these hype articles saying they've sold out (yet again... doh!). It's just a matter of time before they get tired of breaking even or taking a loss. The publishing venture isn't even coming close to paying back what they've invested in the rights to the characters or their developments cost.

 

By eliminating variants and the silly hype, they can look at actual sales numbers and see if the consumers are really increasing or decreasing. They can focus on what needs to be focused upon for lasting success. With the variants, the performance of the stuff between the pages is all masked.

 

DG

 

 

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Gatsby77

Gatsby77

Posted
Posted

No way do I believe Harbinger 1 "sold out."

 

First, the first printing had roughly the same print run of Harbinger 1 from 20 years ago, but we have what? 1/3rd the number of comic book collectors today?

 

Secondly, it's not a "sell-out" if it happens three months down the road. _Huge_ qualitative difference from a book selling out at the distributor level within a day or a week (and thus warranting an instant second printing), a la Silver Surfer 50 or Ghost Rider 15 back in the 90s, and selling out months later when issue 4's on the stands.

 

By that rubric, the original Punisher War Journal # 1 eventually "sold out" as well, and it had the then-highest print run for a modern comic book (until Legends of the Dark Knight 1 came out).

 

It's fine to keep the books in print--maybe refreshing, even--draws in new readers. But be intellectually honest about it.

 

As for the 1:20s and 1:50s, I'm glad I restrained myself from the $12 buy-it-now of Bloodshot # 3 variant, even though they've been selling for $20+ Why?

 

Because CGC 9.2 and 9.6 copies of Magnus 0 sold for under $20 apiece this week on eBay. I'd far rather spend my money there than on the latest artificial variant reprint of a 90 day-old book.

 

Also, consider--in the first year+ of the original Valiant, there were exactly four variants and second printings. Today, less than five months in, we've got more variants and reprints released and announced than were released for the entire VH1 line.

 

They're making 1992-1993 Image look good by comparison.

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Saint_Doyle

Saint_Doyle

Posted
Posted
I'm a collector who can't stand any modern comics. The pacing is horrible and wastes my time.

 

For what it's worth, Harbinger is one of the best paced modern comics I'm reading right now. Each issue has enough dialogue, action, and plot to placate me. And they generally end on a cliff-hanger.

 

The prices are outrageous.

 

...however I can't argue with that. I'm not a $4 new issue kind of guy when I can buy $1 back issues from some of the best titles of the 80s.

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FormerReader

FormerReader

Posted
Posted
I hate to tell you collector's are much more fickle than readers. You're a collector who is already talking about not buying their product after a few months after their release.

 

I'm a collector who can't stand any modern comics. The pacing is horrible and wastes my time. They colors are gaudy. The prices are outrageous. The covers give no insight to the contents inside. Most look like a Sears family portrait. Chests are all poked out. The characters all look haughty or brooding. Most modern comics don't even need art to accompany them. It adds nothing to the story other than dragging it out further.

 

Collectors stick with a title just to have completeness. They'll collect through bad stories and art because they take pride in having a complete set. Collectors have a vested interest in protecting their comics. Readers are far less loyal. A writer or artist can switch to another company and they're gone. I can count 50 comic readers that have abandoned buying comics for every steadfast and dedicated collector I know.

 

Just enjoy the comics while you have them. Order numbers are dropping with or without variants. They're dropping despite all these hype articles saying they've sold out (yet again... doh!). It's just a matter of time before they get tired of breaking even or taking a loss. The publishing venture isn't even coming close to paying back what they've invested in the rights to the characters or their developments cost.

 

By eliminating variants and the silly hype, they can look at actual sales numbers and see if the consumers are really increasing or decreasing. They can focus on what needs to be focused upon for lasting success. With the variants, the performance of the stuff between the pages is all masked.

 

DG

 

 

I can respect you have a different view point on this and I can even respect some of what you are saying, but god can you take the negativity elsewhere. If you don't like Valiant don't buy them. If you don't like modern comics don't buy them. Why complain that a company isn't doing something the way you want them to? It isn't your money they are "wasting".

 

Most of the people here enjoy Valiant. Most even agree they have too many variants, but if you don't like variants don't buy them. Enjoy the regular copies for the stories. If the regular issues are never worth the cover price you paid for them who cares? You are paying for the entertainment not because you think you are going to make money off of them.

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valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted

dgarthwaite,

 

What's your opinion on the auto industry?

 

Automobiles have one purpose... to get you from point A to point B.

 

What's with all the colors? What's with all the extra features jacking up the price? What's with the "luxury models"?

 

Henry Ford had it right. You build ONE model (Model T), paint them all ONE color (black), and price them all the same.

 

Since Ford Motor Company never had to create artificial "variety" with colors or features

or "luxury models" for their automobiles, dressing up the same guts, in order to be successful...

and since Ford automobiles still only have ONE purpose... to get from point A to point B...

you'd think that the comic book industry could stick to "one version per book"

if they want to be successful and true to their "roots" and fair to the customer.

 

Variety is for suckers, right?

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500Club

500Club

Posted
Posted
No way do I believe Harbinger 1 "sold out."

 

First, the first printing had roughly the same print run of Harbinger 1 from 20 years ago, but we have what? 1/3rd the number of comic book collectors today?

+1

 

It 'sold out' at the distributor level, as you note. I don't see that as a true sell out, either. A sold out book to me is a book that is gone from LCS shelves. I can still find Harbinger 1 on the shelves.

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valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted
No way do I believe Harbinger 1 "sold out."

 

First, the first printing had roughly the same print run of Harbinger 1 from 20 years ago, but we have what? 1/3rd the number of comic book collectors today?

+1

 

It 'sold out' at the distributor level, as you note. I don't see that as a true sell out, either. A sold out book to me is a book that is gone from LCS shelves. I can still find Harbinger 1 on the shelves.

As far as I know, there's no "pool of dealers who help each other with unsold comics".

One store is out, another has extras on the shelf. That's common for every book.

 

The "sold out" definition is when you can't get it from the distributor.

Call your distributor, ask if you can get it, if they say "No, sold out..." then it's sold out.

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500Club

500Club

Posted
Posted
No way do I believe Harbinger 1 "sold out."

 

First, the first printing had roughly the same print run of Harbinger 1 from 20 years ago, but we have what? 1/3rd the number of comic book collectors today?

+1

 

It 'sold out' at the distributor level, as you note. I don't see that as a true sell out, either. A sold out book to me is a book that is gone from LCS shelves. I can still find Harbinger 1 on the shelves.

As far as I know, there's no "pool of dealers who help each other with unsold comics".

One store is out, another has extras on the shelf. That's common for every book.

 

The "sold out" definition is when you can't get it from the distributor.

Call your distributor, ask if you can get it, if they say "No, sold out..." then it's sold out.

(shrug)

 

Reread my post. Everything you say is addressed there and in Gatsby's post.

 

I don't care if it's 'sold out' at the distributor level, I don't see that as a sold out product. It's a disconnect from the retail reality.

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Gatsby77

Gatsby77

Posted
Posted
No way do I believe Harbinger 1 "sold out."

 

First, the first printing had roughly the same print run of Harbinger 1 from 20 years ago, but we have what? 1/3rd the number of comic book collectors today?

+1

 

It 'sold out' at the distributor level, as you note. I don't see that as a true sell out, either. A sold out book to me is a book that is gone from LCS shelves. I can still find Harbinger 1 on the shelves.

As far as I know, there's no "pool of dealers who help each other with unsold comics".

One store is out, another has extras on the shelf. That's common for every book.

 

The "sold out" definition is when you can't get it from the distributor.

Call your distributor, ask if you can get it, if they say "No, sold out..." then it's sold out.

(shrug)

 

Reread my post. Everything you say is addressed there and in Gatsby's post.

 

I don't care if it's 'sold out' at the distributor level, I don't see that as a sold out product. It's a disconnect from the retail reality.

 

Exactly--by that rubric, every comic that is print-to-order definitionally "sells out."

 

And certainly most Marvel & DC books.

 

And if it takes 3+ months to "sell out" from the distributor, who cares?

 

In my 20+ years of comic collecting, "sold out" has always meant "widespread at the regional retail level" as in "you can't find the book for cover price--or at all--at any comic shop in southeast Pennsylvania" and the _only_ times anyone cared is when this happened within a week or two.

 

Back in the day, ASM 361 sold out--in suburban Philly it went to $5 (4x cover) within three weeks. Even Youngblood # 1 sold out--went to $8 (~3x cover) within a month.

 

Rai 0 sold out instantly--I was there the day of release at lunchtime and my LCS got so few copies they could only cover subscribers (which I was)--zero copies made it out to the shelf.

 

Superman 75 and (decades later) Captain America 25 sold out so fast prices fluctuated by the hour within their respective first week's of release, and the original Bloodshot 1 sold out within days and went to $8 largely within a month because it happened to have a cool cover and was released the same day as Superman 75.

 

The only time I ever even heard about a distributor sell-out was when my LCS told me Spawn # 2 "sold out" at the distributor level so their new wholesale cost was $2.50 (vs. $1.00), and thus they priced it at $4.

 

When I can go out today and buy mulltiple copies of Harbinger 1 and Archer & Armstrong 2 for cover price in a city where you can count the number of comic book stores on one hand, they're not "sold out."

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