Have counterfeit books ever been made?

[Ian_Levine]

Ian, I bet both your books SMELL like original Golden Age books...and that might be more difficult to duplicate.

 

Yes, because the spare Detective 27 interior IS original. I agree that the cover is probably a lot easier to duplicate than the interior. All I was saying is that if any of you have a coverless classic and you want a cover that LOOKS real, then Matt is the man. Pure unparalleled genius. This is not really the correct thread for this train of thought, because what he has done is restoration artistry, and has nothing to do with anything counterfeit. Rather in restoring a treasured gem to what it should have looked like.

[comicwiz]

This topic is a bit of a sore point for me. There are some instances of undergrounds which were mimeographed (another fancy name for xeroxed or photocopied). Because these books were mainly produced independently with shoe-string budgets, and run off with whatever available printing technology, some people claim that a copy cannot be properly distinguished from an original.

 

Its a sore point because I happen to believe that there are telling signs between a copy and an original. On the flipside, I can understand the apprehension of making a decision on a book with a print run of 500 books, and where the idea of counterfieting to attain a premium becomes for some, an endeavour worth pursuing.

 

The following is one such book (a book which CGC returned to me because they couldn't tell whether it was an original or not) :

 

[bobpfef]

This self-published Love and Rockets #1 (pre-Fantagraphics) was also a photocopied book that I KNOW has been counterfeited.

[goldust40]

And then of course there's the aging process, the smell, the feel of the paper, etc. It would be virtually impossible to duplicate all these factors today, even with the technology to artificially age paper.

 

Utter nonsense.

I have two copies of Detective 27.

One is a complete restored VF, restored to utter perfection by Matt Nelson.

The second is a coverless copy on which Matt has rebuilt a facsimile cover.

Right now, the two are sitting side by side on my dining room table.

It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to tell them apart.

The one with the facsimile rebuilt cover both looks and feels like a real cover.

The type of paper feels like a real Golden Age cover.

If you simultaneously feel both covers, one in each hand, it is virtually impossible to tell them apart.

Although the facsimile cover is copied off the real one, there is no discernable difference in sharpness at all. Or colour, apart from a fractionally different hue of the red, and I really mean miniscule.

I never ever EVER thought it was possible to rebuild a Golden Age cover THIS accurately.

I guarantee it would fool most of you. Maybe not all, but most.

It would fool me, and I have over thirty thousand DCs.

 

The man is a genius - a GENIUS.

 

Yeah, yeah, calm down Ian. Utter nonsense? I was talking about counterfeiting a complete comic, not just a cover. Let's not get carried away.

[Ian_Levine]

Yeah, yeah, calm down Ian. Utter nonsense? I was talking about counterfeiting a complete comic, not just a cover. Let's not get carried away.

 

It's like the old "Stork" test.

Why don't you come round and see if you can tell the difference between the two while they're both here ?

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

Doesn't the Overstreet guide have a warning about people selling those 1st Edition comics which have a facsimile cover underneath another cover? I have never seen those, so I don't really know how similar those are to the real things.

[TomG]

Doesn't the Overstreet guide have a warning about people selling those 1st Edition comics which have a facsimile cover underneath another cover? I have never seen those, so I don't really know how similar those are to the real things.

 

The Famous First Editions are exact reprints with the exception of the additional cover and the larger size of the reprints. Also if you compare the details of the covers to the originals you will notice that some of the original details on the covers are missing from the Famous First Editions.

[goldust40]

Yeah, yeah, calm down Ian. Utter nonsense? I was talking about counterfeiting a complete comic, not just a cover. Let's not get carried away.

 

It's like the old "Stork" test.

Why don't you come round and see if you can tell the difference between the two while they're both here ?

 

I have to say, that would be interesting. If Matt's work is as good as you say, then a Stork test (or Pepsi challenge) is in order. At the very least, I could learn something about pro resto.

[megacity_judge-migration]

No, no.. not platinum AGE, but those platinum books that they made in the 90's. I think there were a couple "major event" DC books that had counterfeit "platinum" editions created.

 

I've heard there was a fake platinum Batman # 497.

There is also a counterfeit Cry For Dawn # 1.

[FFB]

Yeah, yeah, calm down Ian. Utter nonsense? I was talking about counterfeiting a complete comic, not just a cover. Let's not get carried away.

 

It's like the old "Stork" test.

Why don't you come round and see if you can tell the difference between the two while they're both here ?

 

Here are the scans of Ian's Detective #27, before and after. Amazing work here!

Before:

 

After:

 

[Ian_Levine]

Here are the scans of Ian's Detective #27, before and after. Amazing work here!

 

It looks even more beautiful in the flesh.

Just such a pride and joy to own.

I remember as a teenager how I used to dream of owning one some day.

My Action 1 may be unrestored, but this Detective 27 is simply the most aesthetically pleasing possession that I own.

[JohnBull]

I've often wondered about this. Instinctively it feels that it should be quite easy in comparison with fine art counterfeiting as:

 

i) You aren't duplicating a one-off copy - if you throw half a dozen Action 1's in the market people won't be suspicious because the last remaining copy is on display in the Tate.

 

ii) You don't need to make a mint copy. In fact you don't want to. You could make some nice copies, stomp around on them a bit and end up with some VG's worth a fortune.

 

Could you use existing cheap GA books and recycle the paper to come up with pulp of the correct age?

 

Ultimately, if this has ever been done, maybe we don't know as the copies are too good.

[Ian_Levine]

Admittingly, this would be an interesting thread, where similar high-res scans of both books could be compared to one another. Any chance of you indulging us?

 

Here is the scan of the originally coverless Detective 27 where Matt Nelson rebuilt a completely authentic looking cover.

It looks just amazing.

I can only add it as an attachment, so could one of you please repost it up so it's visible on the thread itself

[JohnBull]

[Ian_Levine]

 

Those stripy marks on it are from the scanner. They are NOT on the comic.

[Fan4Fan]

I've often wondered about this. Instinctively it feels that it should be quite easy in comparison with fine art counterfeiting as:

 

i) You aren't duplicating a one-off copy - if you throw half a dozen Action 1's in the market people won't be suspicious because the last remaining copy is on display in the Tate.

 

ii) You don't need to make a mint copy. In fact you don't want to. You could make some nice copies, stomp around on them a bit and end up with some VG's worth a fortune.

 

Could you use existing cheap GA books and recycle the paper to come up with pulp of the correct age?

 

Ultimately, if this has ever been done, maybe we don't know as the copies are too good.

 

Also, the very fact that books weren't perfectly produced would make it seemingly easier to produce a fake (since it would simply have to sit somewhere in the range of production defects).

 

Thanks,

Fan4Fan

[FFB]

Here are the scans of Ian's Detective #27, before and after. Amazing work here!

 

It looks even more beautiful in the flesh.

Just such a pride and joy to own.

I remember as a teenager how I used to dream of owning one some day.

My Action 1 may be unrestored, but this Detective 27 is simply the most aesthetically pleasing possession that I own.

 

Might I suggest that it's time for a trophy wife, Ian?

 

On a serious note though -- that is a gorgeous book. Matt is to be commended for the stellar job he did.