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Did Steve Borock just officially hint at the CGC stance on eye appeal?

Started by fantastic_four,

61 posts in this topic

duncan36

duncan36

Posted
Posted

So don't just dump on CGC for that criteria; take it up with Overstreet.

 

Well he's a dealer first obviously too. Its funny the amount of articles I've read about pencil writing and date stamps, it has the same ring as the anti-communist propaganda films we watched during film-hour in elementary school.

 

I actually read one article that all but came out and said that pencil writing and date stamps made the book better. He rambled on and on about how pencil and stamps added to the historical flavor of the books and you could almost see the patriotic grocer happily scribbling arrival dates/quantities on the cover of the books. Was he sitting on a box full of key pencil scribbled books while writing this article, you decide.

 

Personally its reasons like this that I'd like to see another grading service pop up. If the other service had a good reputation and did deduct for pencil marks and stamps, then it would bring this issue to the forefront and put pressure on the grading guides/services to bring their policies in line with how collectors truly feel about the visual appeal of stamped/pencilled books.

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lighthouse

lighthouse

Posted
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then it would bring this issue to the forefront

 

Personally I don't think this issue belongs in the forefront...

 

Everybody has their own pet peeves about grading, and everyone has their own beefs with standardized grading. I have customers who think any book with a sub crease should be no higher than Good, and will not accept such a book as VG no matter how pretty it is. I have customers who think a store stamp on the back cover drops a book to FVF. I have customers who think water damage the size of a quarter on the back cover is acceptable in Fine, and rapidly buy up every such copy I grade at GVG.

 

Your grading is not the same as mine. It's not the same as Bob Overstreet. It's not the same as Steve Borock. And it's certainly not the same as Scottish... *shudder* .... I will buy the copy with razor sharp corners and a receiver date, you will buy the copy with no date and slightly blunted corners. We will both pay the same price, we will both be happy...

 

But pencilled arrival dates do not belong in the forefront anymore more than cleaning and pressing do...

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

Posted
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I actually read one article that all but came out and said that pencil writing and date stamps made the book better. He rambled on and on about how pencil and stamps added to the historical flavor of the books

 

I said something similar here a couple of months or so ago. I have no issue with arrival dates on the cover, as they DO provide some historical data (keep in mind I am talking from a Gold Age and Atom Age view). Sometimes the arrival dates have contributed to verifying if book A actually was distributed before book B, which could also help determine a true first appearance.

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drbanner

drbanner

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Earth to Duncan, come in Duncan? You have all the paranoia, conspiracy theories, and pessimism about hoards of comic books, CGC, etc.,. as CI, but none of the pizazz or literary finesse...where's my good friend when you need him? Yawn...

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duncan36

duncan36

Posted
Posted
Your grading is not the same as mine. It's not the same as Bob Overstreet. It's not the same as Steve Borock. And it's certainly not the same as Scottish... *shudder* .... I will buy the copy with razor sharp corners and a receiver date, you will buy the copy with no date and slightly blunted corners. We will both pay the same price, we will both be happy...

 

And yet for all that you've said, you neglect to address the point that almost every single collector on earth would prefer to have a non-pencilled 9.6 over a pencilled 9.6.

Also if this issue isn't that relevant then perhaps you can explain to my why dealers dump high grade CGC pencilled books as soon as is humanly possible. I've talked to dealers and listened into to conversations, dealers dont like pencilled books, moneyed collectors dont like pencilled books, people who want to display high grade books dont like pencilled books.

The only group of people that the current pencilling/stamping standards satisfy are the big money dealers/wharehousers.

 

 

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duncan36

duncan36

Posted
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Earth to Duncan, come in Duncan? You have all the paranoia, conspiracy theories, and pessimism about hoards of comic books, CGC, etc.,. as CI, but none of the pizazz or literary finesse...where's my good friend when you need him? Yawn...

 

And you my friend have none of the passion and fervor I have, different yolks for different folks I guess.

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lighthouse

lighthouse

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Also if this issue isn't that relevant then perhaps you can explain to my why dealers dump high grade CGC pencilled books as soon as is humanly possible. I've talked to dealers and listened into to conversations, dealers dont like pencilled books, moneyed collectors dont like pencilled books, people who want to display high grade books dont like pencilled books.

 

Well I for one will be happy to take any books you might have with a pencilled 'D'... or a pencilled 'L'... or the name 'Larson'... So when you get around to dumping all your pencilled books so that you can buy ones that are cleaned and pressed you let me know okay Ablue????

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COI

COI

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" you neglect to address the point that almost every single collector on earth would prefer to have a non-pencilled 9.6 over a pencilled 9.6."

 

That's stating the obvious. But the point is whether or not your willing to pay a lot more for the non-penciled 9.6. While I would obviously prefer the non-penciled copy, I would take the penciled copy at a better price in a second.

 

And as for why dealers would clear out their penciled copies, it's probably because of you nit-picky anal collectors. If it were their choice, they'd probably treat them equal. A high grade is a high grade, and if the structure is perfect, who cares about a little pencil.

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duncan36

duncan36

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I would take the penciled copy at a better price in a second.

 

Well I'd wager to guess you're a businessman rather than a collector. If I was punting on books, price would be the key determinant also, and the CGC seal is as good as gold.

 

And as for why dealers would clear out their penciled copies, it's probably because of you nit-picky anal collectors.

 

This has to be a joke, as a collector I'm quite happy with minor defects, heck I prefer nice glossy F/VF/VF- books with some spine stress and a few defects over the faded, tanned silvers that often get 9.0+. Call me a grade Nazi but I just dont care for pencil scrawl all over the books I'm going to display. cool.gif

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lighthouse

lighthouse

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Call me a grade Nazi but I just dont care for pencil scrawl all over the books I'm going to display.

 

Well, a collector who displays his books is a different kind of collector entirely... I sold a Good copy of Vampirella #1 for $100 last week because the front cover looked VF+...

 

I don't know too many HG collectors who are willing to display their prized possessions and let them deteriorate....

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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Call me a grade Nazi but I just dont care for pencil scrawl all over the books I'm going to display.

 

Calling an arrival date a "scrawl all over the books" is a bit of a stretch. I still like them and have absolutely no issue with having dated books in my collection. The arrival date was part of the process and in fact lends some history to the book.

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duncan36

duncan36

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Yes I do keep a rotation of 60's books on display. To me displaying is the truest indicator of a comics condition as casual observers seem to have a much purer sense of whats makes a comic appealing, but then again I very much come from the 'grading is an art' camp, so what do I know.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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I don't know too many HG collectors who are willing to display their prized possessions and let them deteriorate....
I do. They're called museums. Specific to comics, I think Geppi has or had a showroom of key comics at some point; isn't what he calls "The Diamond Galleries" a physical location?

 

I display comics a lot. If I keep a comic on the wall of a room that is pitch dark 99.8% of the time and that is humidity and temperature controlled, what damage am I doing?

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