Taking a Stand by Tnerb

[Tulls19-migration]

So I read this one this morning and thought about taking a pass as I do almost all posts that I read but then saw how vehement people seem to be on the issue one way or the other and started feeling that passion although not the same as everyone else apparently.

 

Is CVA a ScAm? I don't think so, in so far as I think they really do hold the slabs in their hands and take a look inside and weigh the question, "to sticker or not to sticker?" At the end of the day I believe that THEY believe they have added value to what they do sticker. (I think they should have a sticker of a my-little-pony for the books that are stinkers. After all even CGC lets us know in the grade when we have sent them a dog and that lets everyone else know not to waste too much money on THAT one).

 

So they are not a scam and they believe they have added value but have they? I have read all of Tnerbs postings since I joined in February and can say with near absolute certainty that Tnerb is the hard core when it comes to comic book collecting and he seems to place value on the sticker which we have established isn't a scam. Therefore immediately we know that a niche of the market and the niche that is willing to plop down the most money, has a value for these CVA CGC comics.

 

Now we come to the passion part. Should I take advantage of CVA's Service?

 

1. CVA is not established enough yet and since theoretically I would get best of the best tomorrow as likely as today for my CGC comics then it doesn't hurt to wait and see = NO for now.

 

2. I Haven't seen any evidence yet that CVA is going to add to the value of the comic enough to compensate for the value lost through the fees and shipping = NO for now.

 

HOWEVER, If coming across a good deal on an auction/sale for a CVA/CGC comic that I would buy just on it's CGC merrits, will I pick it up = YES. Will CVA make it into the title somewhere on the Ebay listing = YES but LESS THAN TITLE CGC SS GRADE KEY DETAILS and YEAR. Will I then try to flip it to the elitists who place a premium on the sticker = YES. So do I assign a value to the sticker itself if the deal is not good just on it's CGC merrits? Only when it proves itself, for now just wait and see and watch how the other CVA/CGC comics sell. If they do well then its time to jump on the band wagon then try to jump back off before it crashes again....

 

 

 

 

[Lee K]

 

As for the miswraps on the ASMs - there's about two-hundred thousand million copies of ASM graded, buy a different copy. Or just agree that it isn't a service you are interested in.

 

 

 

Since there are so many copies of that book, how would ones with this type of defect be determined EXCEPTIONAL in the first place?

 

And that is an exceptional question - but, the real question is: Why if such a substantial portion of the collecting society looks down on mis-wraps does CVA not consider them in the same light?

 

[latony007-migration]

this is getting ridiculous. people dont seem to understand grading is subjective. You might as well open up 500 companies that can put a sticker on your slab if they like it, approved by joe, or approved by bob. Its silly. The best part of CGC is not the grade, its the encapsulation and protection of your book as well as the ability to display it safely. Also in purchasing it gives you a general idea of the condition of the book, not a "god says this is a 9.6" I have sent in several hundred books to both services and you see it all over the board depending on who you get and what kind of mood they are in. People seemt to give PGX a hard time because of their grading and i totally disagree, i think its the same and if anything they are a bit tougher (speaking of modern books only). I have sent in books to both services i would have sworn up and down were 9.8 with not a single defect and they didnt get it. Then i have sent in books with a spine crease i thought were .6 and they got .8 etc. im sure thats happened to everyone.

[surfer99]

I am not a fan of the CVA concept for a lot of the same reasons others have stated. I'm certainly not opposed to anyone else enjoying their services though. This is a hobby - have fun!

 

 

[Xfiles]

Wow. Such an incendiary topic. Now for my two cents: Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. Additionally there are MANY factors that go into why ANY particular book would receive, say, a 9.6 grade from CGC. A lot of them DO, in fact, look quite different even though they are graded exactly the same. Personally, I don't need ANOTHER 3rd party source telling me what has striking eye appeal, and charging me for it in the process. I have been doing this long enough to make my own judgments and my own purchases based on what I like and what I believe is exceptional eye appeal. Many of us spend plenty on this hobby already. I see no reason to have to spend even MORE cash for an already graded book in the future just because it has a CVA sticker. The book is already graded! It's inherent value has already been determined by its' grade, for the most part. Therb, you seem like a truly genuine guy who has many contacts throughout our wonderful hobby. I just think that ANOTHER subjective money-making ploy is only going to hurt the industry in the long run. We don't need it. And no, I don't believe miswraps constitute exceptional eye appeal... P.S. Does anybody else realize that a CVA is a CerebroVascular Accident?

[bagofleas]

Ok, everyone. Here's the deal.

 

When CGC started up it's services, there were exactly the same kind of vehement back and forths among collectors and true hobbyists as to whether it was a viable concept and whether it would ever be fully accepted by the industry.

 

Fast forward to today and CGC is practically the standard by which "subjectively graded" comics are held to. It didn't happen overnight. I too was very skeptical of the CGC concept for almost ten years before I saw that it was accepted and jumped on the bandwagon. I love this hobby now more than ever because of CGC.

 

CVA is another wrinkle in the graded comic book industry that is currently going through the same thing that CGC did in the beginning. It will take some time before it is made clear whether this idea will be fully accepted as CGC has been.

 

The reason that Joe is currently offering his services for free (minus any shipping costs, of course) is because he knows that for his idea to have any chance of succeeding, his stickers have to be showing up on graded comics, so that the supposed sale prices of these issues have the chance to sell for more, thereby justifying the concept.

 

Mind you, when you send a comic to CGC, they WILL grade it and encapsulate it regardless of the grade they give it. But with CVA, when you present them with a graded comic, you may just get your comic back with no changes at all. That's a risk some won't ever be willing to take for their hard earned money. That is unless it has the chance to make their copy significantly more valuable than others.

 

If there aren't enough people willing to allow him to put his sticker on their comics or if there aren't enough people willing to pay higher prices for those same stickered comics, then the concept will ultimately fail.

 

Like many others out there, I am willing to wait and see where all this leads. But if most everyone waits to see what happens, then it probably won't take off like CGC ultimately did.

 

As TNerb's journal title says, TAKE A STAND on one side or the other "for now". If you want it to succeed, then get issues to Joe for the chance at stickers. If you don't want it to take off, then don't pay more for a copy with the sticker on it.

 

But in the future if the idea DOES become accepted and changes the ultimate subjective value of a graded comic, then at that point, like CGC, the vast majority of us out there will take advantage of the service, if for no other reason than because the market dictates it.

 

Where do I stand? While I am intrigued by the idea, I'm willing to wait and see if it becomes a new standard before I jump in.

[Tnerb]

First off, to everyone who added their voice, I thank you.

 

CVA along with CGC and even PGX is subject to the buyer. After all it is the buyer who places value on the book by paying the price they think it's worth. I always believed in the Overstreet pricing scale more than any other price guide through out the years. Although I also liked the Comic Buyers guide and chose to purchase them over the Overstreet's Annual Guide because of the layout, it was always Overstreet's that I could count on for prices.

 

What bothered me though, when Wizard had their magazine out with a price guide of the "HOT" books in the back, most dealers or comic book shops I found sold their books at the higher magazine posted prices but would still use the Overstreet's as their purchase price. I also loved when a "friend" would sell what they called a worthless book and would gladly take it off their hands at a portion of the Overstreet's guide but then would sell it at the inflated Wizard guide Price...nothing against Wizard, I did love that magazine.

 

So CGC came along and prices inflated.Five comic books hit the million mark and above. Comic books readily found in the dollar bin sell for $35 to $60 a pop for a modern book. Look at the craze with the Walking Dead. A copy in a 9.9 sold for $10,000 on eBay. Even my beloved New Mutants had issue #98 originally sell for over $10,000. CGC became a staple. I purchase them and have them graded because the interaction of the boards.

 

CVA is new. And I am sure that I will have more questions for them as I learn and see more. Will a CVA stickered CGC book increase the value of the contents inside. Will it be just a gimmick much like foil covers or will the books mouth watering contents be enough for your hard earned cash to be spent.

 

In the eighties a pedigree copy was a sure sign that you were getting a great book. These days there are some books that are a 9.8 non-pedigree book that are out-shined by a 9.6 pedigree book.Which is better, much like CGC and PGX, CVA will be determined by the buyer.

 

Thanks for Reading

 

Tnerb

 

PS. Many of you commenting made some great points. I would love to comment on each one and might do so depending on how dead I am at work. Anyone can send me a message and I look forward to ore debate on this topic. Also would love to know about if anyone saw Red Dawn and can agree with me on that subject too.

[Tnerb]

 

As for the miswraps on the ASMs - there's about two-hundred thousand million copies of ASM graded, buy a different copy. Or just agree that it isn't a service you are interested in.

 

 

 

Since there are so many copies of that book, how would ones with this type of defect be determined EXCEPTIONAL in the first place?

 

And that is an exceptional question - but, the real question is: Why if such a substantial portion of the collecting society looks down on mis-wraps does CVA not consider them in the same light?

 

This will be used as a future question for a future article.

[comix4fun]

 

As for the miswraps on the ASMs - there's about two-hundred thousand million copies of ASM graded, buy a different copy. Or just agree that it isn't a service you are interested in.

 

 

 

Since there are so many copies of that book, how would ones with this type of defect be determined EXCEPTIONAL in the first place?

 

And that is an exceptional question - but, the real question is: Why if such a substantial portion of the collecting society looks down on mis-wraps does CVA not consider them in the same light?

 

 

Another good question is:

 

Being that mis-wraps and mis-cuts are errors, and errors in a hobby that rewards perfection above all else, isn't it most strange that a service that is only judging the front and back covers of a book (since it's all they can see) would judge a common book exceptional when it exhibits such clear and glaring errors in production when there are much better examples to choose from of that book and time period?

 

If they were judging the entire book as CGC does, all the pages, and every aspect of the comic, you could see them ignoring a mis-cut or a slightly bad wrap because, in total, the book is in great shape.

 

When a service is giving a very limited examination, far more limited than cgc, excusing this type of problem is dumbfounding.

[Ronnylama]

I have a tatoo of CVA on my left ear

[Ronnylama]

The way i look at it is if I have an eye appealing book and do not want to SELL it then I have my own way of CVA....otherwise it might be an added bonus to a seller who might achieve a better price. I say CVA when you want to sell

[Jeffro.]

People seemt to give PGX a hard time because of their grading and i totally disagree, i think its the same and if anything they are a bit tougher (speaking of modern books only).

 

That's one reason people give PGX a hard time. The other reasons are their questionable restoration detection and even more questionable business practices.

 

This message board is filled with threads detailing these things.

[Jeffro.]

Of course CVA is here to make a buck. If they weren't they'd be giving away their services for free.

 

CGC is here to make a buck

 

When I sold comics at the last VCC I was looking to make a buck

 

Everybody who sells something is looking to make a buck

 

CVA is waving their fee for a limited time.

 

That's a nice gesture on their part. I still think it's a completely unnecessary service.

[Jeffro.]

 

As for the miswraps on the ASMs - there's about two-hundred thousand million copies of ASM graded, buy a different copy. Or just agree that it isn't a service you are interested in.

 

 

 

Since there are so many copies of that book, how would ones with this type of defect be determined EXCEPTIONAL in the first place?

 

And that is an exceptional question - but, the real question is: Why if such a substantial portion of the collecting society looks down on mis-wraps does CVA not consider them in the same light?

 

First we have to define "substantial." Certainly, the collectors that frequent these boards do not, in general, have a very high opinion of miswraps. However, we are a very small subset of comic fandom and collectors. I suspect that much like pressing, a large portion of collectors view miswraps a bit differently and/or don't care nearly as much about them as we do.

 

 

[comix4fun]

The way i look at it is if I have an eye appealing book and do not want to SELL it then I have my own way of CVA....otherwise it might be an added bonus to a seller who might achieve a better price. I say CVA when you want to sell

 

 

 

Until we see that sticker actually add to the hammer price of books, I'd just as soon keep their fee in my pocket and get the same amount. Right now there's no data to suggest that sticker does anything to the price of books.

[Tnerb]

The way i look at it is if I have an eye appealing book and do not want to SELL it then I have my own way of CVA....otherwise it might be an added bonus to a seller who might achieve a better price. I say CVA when you want to sell

 

 

 

Until we see that sticker actually add to the hammer price of books, I'd just as soon keep their fee in my pocket and get the same amount. Right now there's no data to suggest that sticker does anything to the price of books.

 

 

Which is interesting, other than looking up a book separately how will GPAnalysis mark a book sold with a CVA sticker. I might have to send them an e-mail and ask.

[surfer99]

This just in...CCG purchases CVA...adds to their already expanding portfolio of services! CVA will now offer a pre-screen service for a nominal fee that lets you know prior to grading whether or not your book qualifies for the coveted seal of approval! Hey, don't laugh, it could happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Clouded9]

I have a tatoo of CVA on my left ear

Congrats, unfortunately I was not found to be exceptional looking by CVA. I'll just have to settle for being the best looking guy that my wife has sex with.

[GamingEtc-migration]

I have a tatoo of CVA on my left ear

Congrats, unfortunately I was not found to be exceptional looking by CVA. I'll just have to settle for being the best looking guy that my wife has sex with.

 

Wait, I thought I was that guy? : /