Dragon Con Ban?

[dgarthwaite-migration]

If you are going to boycott Dragon Con, do it for the same reason I do it. The crappy parking lot in the area put a wheel boot on my vehicle during Dragon Con 2004 when the parking lot attendant made eye contact with me and SAW me placing money in the drop box. Do it because Dragon Con doesn't take any responsibility for the crappy location and parking situation. They also make you walk 4 city blocks to get from one end of the show to the other and keep the registration lines long and away from anything else you are going to do. Those are my reasons for boycotting Dragon Con

 

Cause those are waaaaaaaaaay more important factors than objecting to paedophilia.

 

There is no direct evidence. You are assuming he's guilty before the evidence has hone to trial. I'm not even going to say you are wrong for having the opinion you do. I don't think pedophiles deserve any mercy. I just don't feel that it's been proven that he is one. The justice system is at fault if they are allowing unnecessary delays.

 

I talked to someone today that knew him since the 80's and he too feels that Ed is guilty. Again, no evidence... but bad vibes.

 

DG

 

Seems to me an innocent man would want to go to court to prove his innocence.

Not break probation and get caught in a hotel rooms with a 14 year old boy.

You're right, that nothing has been proven in a court of law, but he's not doing himself any favors with his behavior.

 

Yes, I agree. Perhaps he thinks the boy maturing will change his statement? The damning evidence came forth weeks or months after he broke up with the mother. It seems odd that the mother had no problem with Ed being in their lives until weeks after the split was over.

 

I don't know anyone that particularly likes the man. He had very persistent enemies from soured business dealings prior to any of these accusations. Even the female that lived with him and assisted him while under house arrest complained about him endlessly. She still was convinced he was innocent.

 

DG

[miraclemet]

I spend my days trying to understand peoples rationales for all sorts of stuff, so excuse me if I beat this topic a little more to understand DGs thought process on his various positions...

 

The justice system is at fault if they are allowing unnecessary delays.

DG

 

So the fault lies in the system that is being manipulated/abused to avoid prosecution, not the person abusing the system? If someone steals money from an open register its the fault of the clerk who turned his back?

 

Yes, I agree. Perhaps he thinks the boy maturing will change his statement? The damning evidence came forth weeks or months after he broke up with the mother. It seems odd that the mother had no problem with Ed being in their lives until weeks after the split was over.

DG

 

So the thought here is that EK was biding his time waiting for the acuser to mature and change his statement? How does his attempt to relocate to Israel (who does not have a friendly extradition policy with the US... coincidence?) help "mature" his accuser?

 

And secondly, from your perspective can you see how a minor might not accuse an adult in their life (in their home maybe? I don't know if he was living with the GF or not) but once the molester is out of their life and no longer an immediate thread that the boy might reveal to his mother the crimes?

 

I have no specific beef with this guy as a business man or former convention promoter, but his actions over the last 11 years, which were in part funded by Dragon*con profits, at least have the appearance of impropriety...

 

wouldn't you agree DG?

[dgarthwaite-migration]

I spend my days trying to understand peoples rationales for all sorts of stuff, so excuse me if I beat this topic a little more to understand DGs thought process on his various positions...

 

The justice system is at fault if they are allowing unnecessary delays.

DG

 

So the fault lies in the system that is being manipulated/abused to avoid prosecution, not the person abusing the system? If someone steals money from an open register its the fault of the clerk who turned his back?

 

Yes, I agree. Perhaps he thinks the boy maturing will change his statement? The damning evidence came forth weeks or months after he broke up with the mother. It seems odd that the mother had no problem with Ed being in their lives until weeks after the split was over.

DG

 

So the thought here is that EK was biding his time waiting for the acuser to mature and change his statement? How does his attempt to relocate to Israel (who does not have a friendly extradition policy with the US... coincidence?) help "mature" his accuser?

 

And secondly, from your perspective can you see how a minor might not accuse an adult in their life (in their home maybe? I don't know if he was living with the GF or not) but once the molester is out of their life and no longer an immediate thread that the boy might reveal to his mother the crimes?

 

I have no specific beef with this guy as a business man or former convention promoter, but his actions over the last 11 years, which were in part funded by Dragon*con profits, at least have the appearance of impropriety...

 

wouldn't you agree DG?

 

Yes, it does. But there is an even greater appearance (from what I've seen) of people lying because they hate the man over unrelated business dealings. The people that hated him had a desire to destroy him. There is a back story to this that hasn't seen the press. I don't have access to the info, but it was shown to me about a decade ago.

 

I happen to believe Michael Jackson was guilty, but there are millions of people defending his honor.

 

Again, I started my commentary based on the fact that I don't know if he's guilty or not.

 

My stance plain and simple is that the evidence is weak and the case need to go to trial. The evidence that certain people wanted to destroy his life prior to any of it is great. An eyewitness tells me his health is poor from being in advance stages of diabetes. Rather than assume this bearded grizzly bear with a neck brace is some magnet of attraction for children, I'd like to see it handled the proper way. If he is found guilty, then the justice system has failed because he should have a much more harsh sentence. Take him to civil court and give all the profit he makes off of Dragon Con to the victim(s) rather than punishing the one innocent guy (Pat Henry) who own the majority of a convention that thousands enjoy every year.

 

I am an advocate of due process.

 

DG

[MagnusX]

 

 

[font:Book Antiqua]Dragon Con Statement...[/font]

 

Dragon Con Statement Link...

 

 

[font:Book Antiqua]There has been a great deal of discussion as of late in the community regarding our continued financial connection to Edward Kramer. Please know that we are as troubled by this circumstance as anyone else, but please also know that there is no simple, legal, solution to this matter...if there were, it would have been resolved long ago.

 

For the record, Edward Kramer resigned from the Dragon*Con convention in the year 2000. Since that time, he has had no role in the direction or management of the convention; however, he remains a stockholder despite our desires otherwise.

 

Since Edward Kramer’s arrest in 2000, we have made multiple attempts to sever all ties between Edward Kramer and Dragon*Con including several efforts to buy Edward Kramer’s stock shares. Unfortunately, Edward Kramer's response to our buyout efforts was repeated litigation against Dragon*Con...thus our buyout efforts have been stalled. The idea proposed of dissolving the company and reincorporating has been thoroughly investigated and is not possible at this point. Legally, we can’t just take away his shares. We are unfortunately limited in our options and responses as we remain in active litigation.

 

The current flood of “information” about this litigation appears to have been taken from the multiple lawsuits against Dragon*Con filed by Edward Kramer and his lawyers (i.e., Edward Kramer's arguments and allegations, not documented facts). To our dismay, much of this misinformation is being quoted as pure fact despite the reality that a court of law determined that many of the facts and figures provided by Mr. Kramer in his law suits were false, inaccurate or completely fictitious.

 

It is our sincere hope that the end is in sight and that the upcoming trial(s) in Gwinnett County will provide a resolution of Edward Kramer’s guilt or innocence, and therefore a cause of legally divorcing ourselves from him once and for all.

 

Since 2000, Dragon Con has been managed by three of the original co-founders, Chairman Pat Henry and board members Dave Cody and Robert Dennis. In that time the convention attendance has grown from less than 10,000 to over 52,000 fans. Our goal has been and will continue to be, to provide the greatest fan driven science fiction/fantasy convention in the world.

 

We do hope that everyone understands that due to past, present, and possible future lawsuits we find ourselves unable to comment further on any matters concerning Edward Kramer. Please do not construe any future silence on the matter as a lack of concern on the part of the Dragon*Con staff and more specifically, our board of directors.

 

We will continue to strive to provide the best possible experience for our attendees, volunteers, partners and invited guests alike.

 

We are, and will remain, for the fans, by the fans.[/font]