detective #400...cgc 9.8!!! GL #76 cgc 9.6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[drbanner]

These are beautiful books, but I can't understand why people think that GL 76 is so hard to find in high grade.

 

This is The Key DC Bronze Age book and sells for big bucks so there's plenty of incentive to get it slabbed, yet there's only one 9.6 on the census, and you don't think it's hard to find in high grade?

 

That 'tec is purdy!!

[chrisco37]

This is The Key DC Bronze Age book and sells for big bucks so there's plenty of incentive to get it slabbed, yet there's only one 9.6 on the census, and you don't think it's hard to find in high grade?

 

That's correct. The money that this book will command will be more than enough to have drawn out at least a few copies of this book if it were easily found.

 

Book is at 4K and reserve hasn't been met.

[g-man]

and i don't think all the BSBs (big shot bidders) have all weighed in yet.

[chrisco37]

and i don't think all the BSBs (big shot bidders) have all weighed in yet.

 

No doubt. It'll be interesting to see how many snipes are set on this one.

[JohnBull]

These are beautiful books, but I can't understand why people think that GL 76 is so hard to find in high grade.

 

This is The Key DC Bronze Age book and sells for big bucks so there's plenty of incentive to get it slabbed, yet there's only one 9.6 on the census, and you don't think it's hard to find in high grade?

 

That 'tec is purdy!!

 

I seem to remember Valiantman doing a list of the top 50 BA subs by numbers and both GL76 and HoS 92 were in there. In fact I think Tec 400 might have been as well.

 

The last census shows 138 copies of the GL. There's no shortage of nice copies (78 unrestored in 8.0 and up), but for a major book, the top end is thin (6 in 9.4 and 17 in 9.2).

 

I'm sure tth is right, more will come to light, maybe even nicer ones than this, but I don't think we're ever going to be looking at a census that is overflowing with uber-high grade copies.

 

On a side note, the census shows some interesting facts about restoration regarding this book as compared with HoS 92. The GL shows 6.5% of copies as restored, but nothing above an 8.5. The HoS shows 9.6% restored (from a sample size around 2.5 times as big) with a number of high grade copies, going up to the 9.4 level. I guess the black cover inspired more colour touching, but it's amazing to think that 1 in 10 slabbed copies of a BA key are restored.

[chrisco37]

On the GL, the census hasn't been updated to reflect the 9.6 yet. Anybody think we'll see a 9.8 go up on eBay after this one sells?

[awe4one]

On the GL, the census hasn't been updated to reflect the 9.6 yet. Anybody think we'll see a 9.8 go up on eBay after this one sells?

 

Eventually yes. Unless he has another 9.6 to unload of course....

 

Jim

[Foolkiller]

These really are nice books -- especially the GL 76.

[rob_react]

These are beautiful books, but I can't understand why people think that GL 76 is so hard to find in high grade. Even if this the first 9.6 copy in the census, it is a mainstream title from 1970 which almost by definition means it's not rare in HG, and was drawn by a very popular artist so undoubtedly got hoarded. There are more 9.6s out there, if not even better!

 

This is one case where rock solid logic has been so far trumped by reality. Not a development that has pleased me since this is one of my favorite books from the Bronze Age and I'd love to get a straight 9.4. I just don't want to pay the going rate for one. A $5,000+ sale will certainly help the cause if there really are a bunch of copies out there. Of course, I thought the same about the $2000+ sales for the handful of 9.4s. Time will tell.

[dam60]

and i don't think all the BSBs (big shot bidders) have all weighed in yet.

 

Let the history books show that I have thrill bid in ALL the auctions!

 

Jason, if you are reading this, and I know you are, congrats on such BEAUTIFUL books!

[dam60]

On a side note, the census shows some interesting facts about restoration regarding this book as compared with HoS 92. The GL shows 6.5% of copies as restored, but nothing above an 8.5. The HoS shows 9.6% restored (from a sample size around 2.5 times as big) with a number of high grade copies, going up to the 9.4 level. I guess the black cover inspired more colour touching, but it's amazing to think that 1 in 10 slabbed copies of a BA key are restored.

 

[drbanner]

This is one case where rock solid logic has been so far trumped by reality.

 

Exactly...this is the same conversation we've had about the relative scarcity of Silver and Bronze Age DC's compared to Marvels since the board started. The sound, qualitative arguments continually conclude that DC's are not really that much scarcer than Marvels, they're just (kept in collections/don't go for as much so they're not slabbed/dealers don't carry them since the demand is lower/etc). However, the numbers continue to show a different conclusion.

 

I chased this book in NM for five years before CGC came along, and never found a NM copy. There were a few "NM" copies offered on ebay during that time, but the best I could muster was a 9.0.

[FlyingDonut]

Jesus Christ. I hate this guy. I never try to have high grade CGC auctions when he is listing. He sucks all the big money to his auctions. Where are these new high grade comics coming from. Who has been hoarding this stuff.

 

I spoke with Jason briefly at the forum dinner in Chicago. The answer to both of your questions is - he has been hoarding them for years, buying high grade books and putting them away. More power to him!

[chrisco37]

This is one case where rock solid logic has been so far trumped by reality.

I chased this book in NM for five years before CGC came along, and never found a NM copy. There were a few "NM" copies offered on ebay during that time, but the best I could muster was a 9.0.

 

Foolkiller and I always bring up this book (GL #76) whenever there is a conversation about HTF BA Books. I've looked for the better part of two years for a HG copy and always come up empty.

 

The nicest I've seen in person is the one that Brian bought from Superworld in Philly this year (curse you FK for finding it before me ). It graded out an 8.5 if I remember correctly. A great buy for Brian.

[chrisco37]

I spoke with Jason briefly at the forum dinner in Chicago. The answer to both of your questions is - he has been hoarding them for years, buying high grade books and putting them away. More power to him!

 

Yep. I've heard/seen the same thing. Someone pointed him out to me in Philly. He was cherry-picking books from different dealers. Say what yuo want about the 'C&P conspiracy', but the guy has a knack for finding great books. He has a great eye for HG. I've bought from him, and wouldn't hesitate to buy again. Killer books, and great customer service. Best packing job ever.

[Zonker]

This is one case where rock solid logic has been so far trumped by reality.

 

Exactly...this is the same conversation we've had about the relative scarcity of Silver and Bronze Age DC's compared to Marvels since the board started. The sound, qualitative arguments continually conclude that DC's are not really that much scarcer than Marvels, they're just (kept in collections/don't go for as much so they're not slabbed/dealers don't carry them since the demand is lower/etc). However, the numbers continue to show a different conclusion.

 

I chased this book in NM for five years before CGC came along, and never found a NM copy. There were a few "NM" copies offered on ebay during that time, but the best I could muster was a 9.0.

 

Though it is implied in the first paragraph, always remember the qualifier "in high grade" when talking about scarcity of SA/BA DCs vs. Marvel. I suspect there is a combination of things at work here:

 

- less initial collector enthusiasm back in the day for DCs, so less multiples hoarded

- over the years, greater care was taken by dealers in preserving the pristine condition of their cash-cow Marvels

 

So I'd venture a guess that yes, due to a combination of initial conditions + subsequent long-box degradation of once-Mint books, today in 2004, ultra-high-grade DCs are in fact much less common than ultra-high-grade Marvels. Doesn't mean there will never be another 9.8 GL #76 (or 9.9 or 10.0), but it does mean I highly doubt you would ever get comparable census numbers at the high end for GL 76 or Tec 400 or HoS 92 versus say a comparable Marvel book like Conan #1. Or #2 or #3 for that matter!

[tth2]

This is one case where rock solid logic has been so far trumped by reality.

 

Exactly...this is the same conversation we've had about the relative scarcity of Silver and Bronze Age DC's compared to Marvels since the board started. The sound, qualitative arguments continually conclude that DC's are not really that much scarcer than Marvels, they're just (kept in collections/don't go for as much so they're not slabbed/dealers don't carry them since the demand is lower/etc). However, the numbers continue to show a different conclusion.

 

I chased this book in NM for five years before CGC came along, and never found a NM copy. There were a few "NM" copies offered on ebay during that time, but the best I could muster was a 9.0.

 

I hear what you guys are saying, and you definitely know where I stand on the scarcity of early HG SA DC. Perhaps it's just a bizarre freak of nature, and I don't doubt your collective difficulties in finding this book, but I just have a hard time believing a Neal Adams book from 1970, particularly with such a cool cover, could be this hard to find in 9.6 or higher.

 

In comparison, I could easily believe that HOS 92, which traditionally has been held to be one of the tough BA HG books, or any other non-mainstream title, could be really hard to find in ultra high grade. And yet, I was shocked when I checked the census just now to see 6 copies in 9.6 and 11 9.4 copies. If a non-descript book like HOS 92 (at the time it came out) has that many HG copies, I just have to believe the HG GL 76s are out there. But maybe Rob is right, and this is just a case where reality trumps logic. Who knows what $5 or 6K will draw out of the woodwork...

[Foolkiller]

GL was a very poor seller for DC back when Adams/O'Neill took the book over, so I imagine initial orders were not that great on the book. And, unlike with today's hype machine, nobody was pumping up Adams to no end to get advance orders up. I think the book got temporarily cancelled anyway, as the Adams run was completed as a backup in the Flash.

 

This is one book that I believe has a similar popularity base to a lot of Marvels, and is often looked at as a key book.

 

My book did grade out at an 8.5 from Philly, and I shortly thereafter picked up what I believe to be a raw 9.0 -- I ended up deciding to hold on to both books -- and the only way I'll ditch both is if I ever buy a 9.4 (which I don't plan on doing in current market conditions).

 

Although I think some of the prices paid on the book are little crazy, given two years ago top guide was $175 or something, it's been significantly undervalued for a long time, and I hunted for one for over a year before I found a satisfactory copy.

[Zonker]

Those HoS 92 census numbers are a puzzler compared to GL 76 or Tec 400.

 

In the auction description for the GL 9.6, Jason Ewert mentions the bright green cover being a factor in its difficulty to find in HG, but the census numbers don't even reflect 'Oops' submissions of low-grade GL 76's.

 

All Universal Grades

HoS 92 = 300

GL 76 = 128

Tec 400 = 56

 

I'm at a loss to explain HoS 92 versus GL 76 numbers.

[Zonker]

GL was a very poor seller for DC back when Adams/O'Neill took the book over, so I imagine initial orders were not that great on the book. And, unlike with today's hype machine, nobody was pumping up Adams to no end to get advance orders up. I think the book got temporarily cancelled anyway, as the Adams run was completed as a backup in the Flash.

 

I was going to say that too, but then we're back to the HoS 92 counter-example. But I'll check the print run numbers for GL & HoS from the Standard catalog when I get home just to be sure; maybe Bronze horror was selling a lot better than slumming ex-SA superheroes at that point-- obviously HoS/HoM was profitable enough to spawn a ton of imitators in the 1970s.

 

But you do prompt another question of anyone buying new books back in 1970: Was GL 76 a below-the-radar book at the time? In collecting back-issues from that period, I don't ever recall seeing a house ad for the then-upcoming GL 76 and the virtual re-titling to Green Lantern / Green Arrow. Lots of hype after it won those awards (about the time of GL #85/86). Certainly nothing to compare to the "Kirby is Coming" / "Kirby is Here" ad campaign of just a few months later in 1970. And, GL #76 was originally going to be drawn by GL veteran artist Gil Kane; Adams was a relatively late addition to the party. So in those pre-Previews days, did fandom even know to be on the lookout for GL 76 as something special?