detective #400...cgc 9.8!!! GL #76 cgc 9.6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[drbanner]

GL was a very poor seller for DC back when Adams/O'Neill took the book over, so I imagine initial orders were not that great on the book. And, unlike with today's hype machine, nobody was pumping up Adams to no end to get advance orders up. I think the book got temporarily cancelled anyway, as the Adams run was completed as a backup in the Flash.

 

Yeah, I believe that "...the series was going to be cancelled anyway..." is mentioned in that Neal Adams CBM article as one of the reasons they were able to go in a bit of a different direction with it. Kinda like the last hurrah in that silly "Amazing Fantasy" series Marvel was cancelling in 1962!!

[drbanner]

I was going to say that too, but then we're back to the HoS 92 counter-example. But I'll check the print run numbers for GL & HoS from the Standard catalog when I get home just to be sure; maybe Bronze horror was selling a lot better than slumming ex-SA superheroes at that point-- obviously HoS/HoM was profitable enough to spawn a ton of imitators in the 1970s.

 

But you do prompt another question of anyone buying new books back in 1970: Was GL 76 a below-the-radar book at the time? In collecting back-issues from that period, I don't ever recall seeing a house ad for the then-upcoming GL 76 and the virtual re-titling to Green Lantern / Green Arrow. Lots of hype after it won those awards (about the time of GL #85/86). Certainly nothing to compare to the "Kirby is Coming" / "Kirby is Here" ad campaign of just a few months later in 1970. And, GL #76 was originally going to be drawn by GL veteran artist Gil Kane; Adams was a relatively late addition to the party. So in those pre-Previews days, did fandom even know to be on the lookout for GL 76 as something special?

 

Dunno if the Standard Catalogue has circulation numbers for those books, but I would be curious to see what the OS Price Guide history is for GL 76 vs. HoS 92. The 1st Swamp Thing has been a key book for a long time...I'll check some old price guides at the homefront.

[JohnBull]

Those HoS 92 census numbers are a puzzler compared to GL 76 or Tec 400.

 

In the auction description for the GL 9.6, Jason Ewert mentions the bright green cover being a factor in its difficulty to find in HG, but the census numbers don't even reflect 'Oops' submissions of low-grade GL 76's.

 

All Universal Grades

HoS 92 = 300

GL 76 = 128

Tec 400 = 56

 

I'm at a loss to explain HoS 92 versus GL 76 numbers.

 

I doubt it's anything more than guide values. HoS 92 has always been a top 10 BA book and was even #1 a few years back. GL 76 has never made that list. People have probably been slabbing what they thought would make big bucks.

[JohnBull]

I was going to say that too, but then we're back to the HoS 92 counter-example. But I'll check the print run numbers for GL & HoS from the Standard catalog when I get home just to be sure; maybe Bronze horror was selling a lot better than slumming ex-SA superheroes at that point-- obviously HoS/HoM was profitable enough to spawn a ton of imitators in the 1970s.

 

But you do prompt another question of anyone buying new books back in 1970: Was GL 76 a below-the-radar book at the time? In collecting back-issues from that period, I don't ever recall seeing a house ad for the then-upcoming GL 76 and the virtual re-titling to Green Lantern / Green Arrow. Lots of hype after it won those awards (about the time of GL #85/86). Certainly nothing to compare to the "Kirby is Coming" / "Kirby is Here" ad campaign of just a few months later in 1970. And, GL #76 was originally going to be drawn by GL veteran artist Gil Kane; Adams was a relatively late addition to the party. So in those pre-Previews days, did fandom even know to be on the lookout for GL 76 as something special?

 

Dunno if the Standard Catalogue has circulation numbers for those books, but I would be curious to see what the OS Price Guide history is for GL 76 vs. HoS 92. The 1st Swamp Thing has been a key book for a long time...I'll check some old price guides at the homefront.

 

From my back numbers:

 

Year GL76 HoS92

1975 $6 $3

1979 $24 $24

1980 $30 $27

1981 $45 $24

1986 $48 $24

1987 $42 $24

1991 $60 $65

1996 $135 $435

1998 $170 $460

1999 $175 $470

2002 $250 $700

2004 $425 $800

 

If anyone has missing numbers (I have 2003, but at work), I'd love to fill in some gaps as that is fascinating reading.

 

The jumps between 75 and 79 are proportionately huge and look what happened to Swampy in the early 90's.

[Zonker]

Good, but surprising data. Thanks! I might be able to fill in some of the blank years later tonight.

 

At the time I first tracked down my GL 76, it was the DC 1970s book to have, but that was sometime in the late '70s / early '80s, when Horror was relatively dead (post-Adams/Wrightson, pre-Alan Moore). Haven't paid attention to GL 76's relative stagnation in the 1990s (but I did remember it actually got reduced in Overstreet price sometime in the 80s).

 

So you think the CGC census is entirely price (perceived demand) driven? We'll see soon enough after this auction closes I suppose. I would have thought the lure of zero 9.6 copies would have led someone to test the waters before now, but what do I know?

 

Right now the WP GL 76 is bid up to 1.5X the Off-White HoS 92.

 

Edit:

Oops, never mind... I didn't realize the $4200 was a thrill bid. (Hi dam60!)

[Aman619]

Heres what I remember and think about it. GL was a dead book by issue 74. Its certainly understandable for me to think that many long time collectors then (my age (then 18) and older) would just buy all the new books and pile em up neatly w/o even reading them. Not everbody, but enough collectors. Also there may have been savvy speculators buying or accumulating multiples.

 

So I can believe that there are dozens of pristine single owner collections out there still. Out of these, a precious few could hit the magic 9.6 9.8 gong when they are liquidated. I have my off the newsstand read once and piled up copy of HOS 92 that a couple of dealers graded 9.4 to 9.6. I was surprised by that (and pretty happy too!) because I had taken no special care in protecting it until the 80s!!! It just somehow survived between issue 91 and 93 without getting damaged.

 

Kind of like BurntBoys collection. They sit around untouched year after year. If they didnt get pizza stained on the first reading, or fell oou of the bicycle basket onto the street on the way home...a comic book just might survive unscathed.

[dam60]

Edit:

Oops, never mind... I didn't realize the $4200 was a thrill bid. (Hi dam60!)

 

 

I am in at $4,2499.99 and it's RNM . . . .

 

What's the reserve? My bet is $5K will take it . . .

 

DAM

[JohnBull]

I don't think the census is entirely price driven, but I think the lure of a $700 book was probably greater than that of a $250 book.

 

When I first started buying Adams stuff in the late 70's/early 80's, he was quite hot. But sometime in the mid-80's I got the feeling that demand cooled off a bit, at least over here. Prices didn't do much in that period and I think that some of the dross he produced in that period might well have been a factor.

 

The importance of a great cover on a slabbed book seems to have positioned him almost at the top of the tree again and these books are genuinely quite old now. When I was first buying, the books were around 7-10 years old, but now they're around the 35 year mark. The importance of age when it comes to shelling out big bucks cannot be underestimated.

[rob_react]

I am in at $4,2499.99 and it's RNM . . . .

 

What's the reserve? My bet is $5K will take it . . .

 

If reserve is a dime below $5k I'd be surprised. I also wouldn't surprised to see it move past that number. After the PC copy, I am never going to underestimate this book again.

[JohnBull]

All recent onsite grading books?, as they don't show up yet in the system!

 

I wanted to check out the rest of the invoice!

 

This might be chasing shadows, but...

 

The GL 76 listing says "ONE AND ONLY CGC 9.6 GRADED COPY! THE BEST COPY EVER !".

 

The Tec 400 and HoS 92 listings say "1ST MAN-BAT ! ABSOLUTE PERFECTION ! BEST COPY EVER !" and "BERNI WRIGHTSON ART !!!!! BEST COPY EVER !!!!!".

 

We know there are 6+ HoS 92's out there. Does the absence of the "One and only" line from the Tec mean that Jason has another 9.8 up his sleeve?

[Aman619]

I'm thinking the reserve is at LEAST 5K maybe 6K

and will sell for close to 7000 when the sniping settles.

 

I would have thought it was a 4K reserve, but nope!

[jduran1]

People argued with me on these forums about the value of GL 76. (Oh its a common book) Yea right. It is a bear to find in HG in the west. There is not a 9.8 out there or will there ever be. Like HOS 92 9.8's in these two books are the elusive butterfly. The HOS 92 for sale now is beautiful. Beats me why its not a 9.8.

 

Wish I had some big money to burn.

[joe_collector]

There is not a 9.8 out there or will there ever be.

 

[ultimatevenom]

There is not a 9.8 out there or will there ever be.

 

 

How can you know this?

 

I am sure there are a few sitting in collections that won't be graded.

[Zonker]

OK, back in with some data this time.

 

First, on the demand side, i.e. what did previous generations of collectors think was cool enough to bid the price up in Overstreet, and therefore likely hoard and/or preserve. I've added to capercaillie's excellent data below:

 

 

From my back numbers:

 

Year GL76 HoS92

1974 $5 (eighty friggin' cents!)

1975 $6 $3

1976 $10 $8

1978 $18 $21

1979 $24 $24

1980 $30 $27

1981 $45 $24

1986 $48 $24

1987 $42 $24

1988 $33 $24

1989 $45 $25

1990 $50 $35

1991 $60 $65

1992 $75 $120

1993 $100 $225

1994 $105 $375

1996 $135 $435

1998 $170 $460

1999 $175 $470

2002 $250 $700

2004 $425 $800

 

 

So, collectors' preference for HoS 92 seems to be a fairly recent thing, beginning in 1992-93 in Overstreet (which of course lags the market).

 

Second, on the supply side, here are the circulation numbers from the Standard Catalog. These are I believe total paid circ numbers (print run - returns).

 

GL 76 134,150

HoS 95 168,256 (earliest HoS with circ numbers)

 

for reference...

Hulk (123-128) 222,619

DD (63-66) 212,935

ASM (80-91) 322,195

 

My conclusion? It's unlikely that HoS 92 was significantly more common than GL/GA from the get-go, and it also seems unlikely early collectors would have a monetary incentive to hoard HoS in as great a number as GL/GA. But both books certainly started from a much lower surviving base than did mainstream Marvels of the period.

[Norrin_Radd]

So, collectors' preference for HoS 92 seems to be a fairly recent thing, beginning in 1992-93 in Overstreet (which of course lags the market).

 

 

WHY didn't I start buying comics in college?!?!?!

[supapimp]

cos you were spending all your money on 420 and beer.

[Norrin_Radd]

Here's an assist with the data:

 

Year GL76 HoS92

1970 $0.65 NA

1973 $0.25 $0.25 (make's me wanna cry!)

1974 $5 (eighty friggin' cents!)

1975 $6 $3

1976 $10 $8

1977 $12 $15

1978 $18 $21

1979 $24 $24

1980 $30 $27

1981 $45 $24

1982 $56 $24

1983 $56 $20

1984 $56 $24

1985 $48 $24

1986 $48 $24

1987 $42 $24

1988 $33 $24

1989 $45 $25

1990 $50 $35

1991 $60 $65

1992 $75 $120

1993 $100 $225

1994 $105 $375

1996 $135 $435

1998 $170 $460

1999 $175 $470

2002 $250 $700

2004 $425 $800

[rob_react]

People argued with me on these forums about the value of GL 76. (Oh its a common book) Yea right.

 

I just checked because that doesn't seem like a conversation that would happen here since a bunch of us are always on the lookout for this book: It was Green Lantern #59 that people said was common.

[uclapeterg]

Would a game of "predict the price" be worth playing?

 

Would $7K be out of the ? for the pair?

 

More than that, I think.