What do YOU consider to be Silver Age Marvels?

[shadroch]

Its been done before,but its been awhile. We've got new members and perhaps some older ones have changed their POVs.

To me,Marvels Silver Age begins with FF#1.

I also don't count any non-hero issues of TOS,ST, and TTA.Amazing Fantasy 15 is SA,the first 14 issues are not.

Where it ends is hopelessly blurred to me.For some reason,I consider the one month only 25 cent giants as the first Bronze Age books,but thats for the sake of convienence.As evidenced by Stronguys Marvel Timeline,he includes issues I don't and doesn't include issues I do.

Thats fine as I don't consider this to be a right or wrong type of question.

Where do you stand on this? Where do you start and stop the Silver Age of Marvel comics?

Are pre-hero Marvels Silver Age or some other age?

Are Atlas comics really Marvel,or should they be treated differently? Do books like Millie,Patsy Walker and the Westerns that never changed their style really qualify as Silver Age books. Is Siver Age a time frame or an attitude?Can a 15 cent book be Silver Age? Or any book published in the 70s?

[Aces]

FF 125 is the last possible Silver-Age month,

That's when Stan Lee stops writing FF.

[Silver Surfer]

Marvel SA starts at FF#1, no arguement there.

[joe_collector]

Here's the way I look at it:

 

FF#1 started the Marvel Silver Age

 

Conan #1 started the Marvel Bronze Age.

 

The 25-cent Giants confirmed the Bronze Age for all mags (and as Stan proclaimed in the Bullpen Bulletins) started "the Second Age of Marvel Comics".

 

So yes, for a general Marvel comic, I tend to split them Silver-Bronze based on cover price. Anything 15-cents is Silver, 25/20-cents is Bronze.

[Zonker]

I'd stop the Marvel Silver Age with the final continuous Jack Kirby FF, #102. Makes it nice that Conan #1 starts the very next month, which is certainly Bronze Age.

 

In general, though, my scheme for the ages isn't so cut and dried as stopping SA in Sept '70 and starting BA in Oct '70. For instance, there's no reason in my book to turn all the pre-hero Marvels into Silver Age as soon as Fantastic Four #1 is published. No more reason to do that than to start Marvel's SA with the pub of Showcase #4. The way I see it, the Silver Age rolled through different books at different times, keyed to the re-introduction of super-heroes. Likewise, the Bronze Age rolled through different books in the 1970-71 timeframe based on the introduction of new themes and the change-over in certain Silver Age creative teams, such as Kirby to DC, Stan Lee later turning ASM scripting over to Roy Thomas, etc.

[blowout]

Silver Age for Marvel starts with Fantastic Four #1.

Ends in 69/70. There really isn't a strong enough single issue candidate that defines the end of the Silver Age.The end of the decade seems appropriate enough.

[tth2]

Silver Age for Marvel starts with Fantastic Four #1.

Ends in 69/70. There really isn't a strong enough single issue candidate that defines the end of the Silver Age.The end of the decade seems appropriate enough.

 

I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that FF #1 begins the Marvel Silver Age. But Shadroch raises an interesting point, do non-superhero issues of AF, JIM, TTA, TOS and ST that came out after FF #1 count as SA books?

 

I personally have always used the end of the 12 cent cover price as the end of SA.

[143ksk]

Back when I collected Marvels (which was long before the designation "bronze age" existed), I had this simplistic method for determining Silver Age: FF 1 began the Marvel SA which then ran through the 15 cent books. The modern age (as it was then known) began with the 25 cent giant issues (or 20 cent issues if there wasn't a 25 cent book).

 

The "rationale" behind this was that the 15 cent books looked just like the 12 cent books except the price was different, and the 20 cent books looked like the (then current) 25 cent books, again except with a different price.

 

Ah, youth...

[Aman619]

Clearly FF#1 started the Marvel Silver Age for me too. But. paradoxically - - I also include all the Atlas monster books in Silver as well starting with the Ditko/Kirby art appearances. I know this makes no sense, but I juts see these biooks way more similar to the superhero stuff these same guys started doing just a few months and years afterward. It was the same bullpen, just a new twist they stumbled on. To lump the monster books in with Golden Age or Atom age seems wrong. They are cousins of FF1 more so than Strange Tales 1.

 

maybe Im just thinking as a collector.. when I sort for Marvel Silver age I want these included due to the numbering... as a "comics historian", hpwever, clearly FF#1 started the Marvel Age of Comics which (with DC) defines the Silver Age.

[Forbush-Man]

I'd stop the Marvel Silver Age with the final continuous Jack Kirby FF, #102. Makes it nice that Conan #1 starts the very next month, which is certainly Bronze Age.

 

In general, though, my scheme for the ages isn't so cut and dried as stopping SA in Sept '70 and starting BA in Oct '70. For instance, there's no reason in my book to turn all the pre-hero Marvels into Silver Age as soon as Fantastic Four #1 is published. No more reason to do that than to start Marvel's SA with the pub of Showcase #4. The way I see it, the Silver Age rolled through different books at different times, keyed to the re-introduction of super-heroes. Likewise, the Bronze Age rolled through different books in the 1970-71 timeframe based on the introduction of new themes and the change-over in certain Silver Age creative teams, such as Kirby to DC, Stan Lee later turning ASM scripting over to Roy Thomas, etc.

 

 

Good points there, Zonker. I agree with the concept of FF # 102 as a stopping point for Silver Age Marvels, as we were all shocked to learn Kirby had left Marvel to go to DC. This was truely the end of an era for Marvel.

 

I also agree that different ages take place at different times (however, the Silver Age does begin with Showcase # 4, but we're talking about Marvel's Silver Age).

 

Here is my slant on this (really the when did Bronze Age actually begin slant, but it goes along with this thread so far).

 

A number of things occur between June, 1969 and December, 1970:

 

 

The last .12 issues are dated right around June, 1969. Mort Weisinger retires from DC 1970. The release of the Overstreet Price Guide had a profound impact on the collecting hobby which can not be understated. Kirby leaves Marvel to go to DC and rocks the collecting community (this, too, can not be understated). Alter-Ego is revived with issue # 10 (first new issue since 1964 and first pro-zine issue). The release of two significant books about comics: Steranko's History of the Comics (Originally supposed to be titled "Stan Lee's History of the Comics") & All in Color for a Dime. Conan the Barbarian # 1 released 1970 & begns trend toward sword & sorcery/mystical thymes. The first San Diego Comics Con occurs( mini con, March 21, 1970 and San Diego Golden State Comic Con,August 1-3, 1970.

 

The 1995 Overstreet Price Guide describes the Definition of Bronze Age as:

"(1) Non-specific term not in general acceptance by collectors which denotes comics published from approximatley 1970 through 1980.(2) Term which descries "The Age" of comics after the Silver Age."

 

I, personally, have always contributed the end of the Silver Age to (1) The leaving of Kirby from Marvel (2) the rise in price to .15 per issue (3) Kirby's 4th world books released (Feb. 1971), which gives a beginning of the Bronze Age (and end of the Silver Age) between June, 1969-February, 1971. Just MHO.

 

Any comments?

[joe_collector]

Conan the Barbarian # 1 released 1970 & begns trend toward sword & sorcery/mystical thymes.

 

Just for clarity, Conan had little to do with "swords and sorcery" and more to do with shaking up the status quo. His appearance clashed openly with the "Marvel Boy Scouts" image, and really opened up the door for the edgy Bronze Age characters like Wolverine, Punisher, Ghost Rider, Deathlok, etc.

 

Basically Conan proved that you could be a serious badass, kill villains, drink, and still sell comics.

[Sharkey]

Clearly FF#1 started the Marvel Silver Age for me too. But. paradoxically - - I also include all the Atlas monster books in Silver as well starting with the Ditko/Kirby art appearances. I know this makes no sense, but I juts see these biooks way more similar to the superhero stuff these same guys started doing just a few months and years afterward. It was the same bullpen, just a new twist they stumbled on. To lump the monster books in with Golden Age or Atom age seems wrong. They are cousins of FF1 more so than Strange Tales 1.

 

maybe Im just thinking as a collector.. when I sort for Marvel Silver age I want these included due to the numbering... as a "comics historian", hpwever, clearly FF#1 started the Marvel Age of Comics which (with DC) defines the Silver Age.

 

FF1 is almost an extension of those pre-hero monster books, look at the cover, and the fact that the villain is Mole Man with an underground army of monsters. Craig "Mr. Silver Age" Shutt talks about this (accurately in my opinion) in his book "Baby Boomer Comics".

 

No arguement that FF1 was the defining start of the Silver Age, and like you I tend to consider the pre-hero books (AA, AAF, JIM, ST, TOS, TTA) as Silver Age even though many of them are chronologically prior to the publication of FF1. It's interesting to see those "prototype" stories featuring superpowered people, monsters, etc along with early characters like the Aunt May/Uncle Ben in ST97. It's like the bullpen was mixing up the formula of ideas and just had to get that right mix to make it stable.

[shadroch]

As far as Overstreets price guide having a huge effect,I was once told there were less than 5,000 of the first issue printed. I never saw a copy until about 1987. I think it wasn't until PG#4 that it began to have a marketwide efffect.#5 was the first I remember being available on a much larger basis,in bookstores and the like.

[Sharkey]

Do books like Millie,Patsy Walker and the Westerns that never changed their style really qualify as Silver Age books.

 

If you consider the Silver Age as a time period and not defined by specific content in specific books, then yes those books qualify as Silver Age.

 

And some of the Marvel westerns did change their style for a while: the runs in books like Kid Colt where they tried mixing in super-powered villains like Red Raven and others (including a very Doc Doom type villain wearing an iron mask) to try to translate the success they were having in the super-hero books to the other titles. Some of those read like the old Wild, Wild West TV show which tried to translate the James Bond success to a western (great show!). The attempts at super-hero-infused Westerns were sporadic and must not have done much to increase sales because it didn't last, but I love those issues! Don't have any covers handy but maybe somebody does and could post a couple?

[Forbush-Man]

As far as Overstreets price guide having a huge effect,I was once told there were less than 5,000 of the first issue printed. I never saw a copy until about 1987. I think it wasn't until PG#4 that it began to have a marketwide efffect.#5 was the first I remember being available on a much larger basis,in bookstores and the like.

 

 

Print runs, high or low, do not make a book profound, content makes a book profound: As an Index it was monumental (and the first use of "Fine" as a grading category).

 

You are correct that the print runs did jump with issue # 6, sold 41,000 copies.

[joe_collector]

Print runs, high or low, do not make a book profound, content makes a book profound

 

Forum members don't let other forum members do drugs.

[uclapeterg]

Here's the way I look at it:

 

FF#1 started the Marvel Silver Age

 

Conan #1 started the Marvel Bronze Age.

 

The 25-cent Giants confirmed the Bronze Age for all mags (and as Stan proclaimed in the Bullpen Bulletins) started "the Second Age of Marvel Comics".

 

So yes, for a general Marvel comic, I tend to split them Silver-Bronze based on cover price. Anything 15-cents is Silver, 25/20-cents is Bronze.

 

I agree.

[uclapeterg]

Silver Age for Marvel starts with Fantastic Four #1.

Ends in 69/70. There really isn't a strong enough single issue candidate that defines the end of the Silver Age.The end of the decade seems appropriate enough.

 

I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that FF #1 begins the Marvel Silver Age. But Shadroch raises an interesting point, do non-superhero issues of AF, JIM, TTA, TOS and ST that came out after FF #1 count as SA books?

 

I personally have always used the end of the 12 cent cover price as the end of SA.

 

I don't count them.

[Sharkey]

Conan the Barbarian # 1 released 1970 & begns trend toward sword & sorcery/mystical thymes.

 

Basically Conan proved that you could be a serious badass, kill villains, drink, and still sell comics.

 

Aye, and by Crom he knew how to treat a wench...

[Sharkey]

Good points there, Zonker. I agree with the concept of FF # 102 as a stopping point for Silver Age Marvels, as we were all shocked to learn Kirby had left Marvel to go to DC. This was truely the end of an era for Marvel.

 

Here is my slant on this (really the when did Bronze Age actually begin slant, but it goes along with this thread so far).

 

A number of things occur between June, 1969 and December, 1970:

 

I, personally, have always contributed the end of the Silver Age to (1) The leaving of Kirby from Marvel (2) the rise in price to .15 per issue (3) Kirby's 4th world books released (Feb. 1971), which gives a beginning of the Bronze Age (and end of the Silver Age) between June, 1969-February, 1971. Just MHO.

 

Any comments?

 

Yep, Kirby's departure shook things up and the tone of the stories in the Marvel line was changing. As a kid reading comics, I noticed the change most in ASM. Once Capt Stacy was killed off and then they did the non-Code Harry-on-drugs stories, I could see a serious shift occuring and to me it signaled the end of an era, or a loss of innocence in a way. My impression was that many of the lines became more preachy in an attempt to address real-world relevance. I always loved Spidey, but the pre-#90 stories and the post-#90 stories are worlds apart. That was the end of my own personal silver age.

 

Conan 1 starts the Bronze Age for me.