1st Silver Age Red Skull? 1 1

[StuporMan]

According to Overstreet, the 1st Silver Age appearance of the Silver Age Red Skull in in Tales of Suspense #65. Technically though, the "Red Skull" in issue #65 was not the REAL Red Skull, but an impersonator by the name of Maxon. In the following issue #66, Captain America discovers this and meets the REAL Red Skull, who then explains his origin. But Overstreet only designates issue #66 as the origin of the Red Skull. So in my opinion, not only is issue #66 the first appearance of the REAL Silver Age Red Skull, but more important because this explains his origin. The Overstreet pricing of issue #65 vs. #66 suggests otherwise.

 

The reason I bring this up is because this same thing happened with Captain America in Strange Tales #114. This is the actually the first Silver Age appearance of "Captain America", pre-dating Avengers #4. But in Strange Tales #114, this was an impostor (The Acrobat) wearing the Captain America suit fighting the Human Torch. Now look at the Overstreet price difference between Strange Tales #114 and Avengers #4 and ask yourself if the real 1st appearance of the real character or the impostor appearance is more valuable

 

...and if the first REAL appearance is more valuable with Captain America, why not his nemesis the Red Skull?

 

Also, can you think of any other Marvel characters where there is a discrepancy between the 1st appearance of the actual hero/villian vs. an imposter?

 

[gaz973]

Not a Silver Age book but the 1st appearance of Domino in New Mutants # 98 was an imposter with the real Domino not appearing until about a year later.

[AGGIEZ]

1st SA Cap in Strange Tales too...

[catrick339]

Bullseye's another. First "appearance" Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD 15, but that's NOT the same character who reached infamy in Daredevil.

[James Howlett]

Eh, it's not even a real first appearance

[crimson dynamo]

The storyline for 65 took place over a period of days. Red Skull was impersonating John Maxon, an aviator tycoon. John Maxon was in the issue to oversee the Army test a new bomber and then the plane crashes. Capt later encounters the Red Skull removes his mask and sees Maxon. Red Skull then boasts about how impersonated Maxon and runs away. Then 66 comes out and this happens.....................................

 

 

 

 

 

Also according to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Book of the Dead the Red Skulls first modern appearance IS Tales Of Suspense 66. Que the Maury Povich audience reaction

Edited March 30, 2013 by crimson dynamo

[Gatsby77]

It pays to _read_ the comics, not just "marvel" at the covers.

 

Not Marvel, but another example is World's Finest 173. Batman gets turned into Two Face, which would have made it Two Face's first (and only) SA appearance. But it's not Harvey Dent so it doesn't count. I believe Overstreets gets this right.

 

End result = no SA Two Face appearances; his first appearance since the Golden Age (and like, 6th overall) is Bats 234.

[rjpb]

As ToS 65 & 66 featured Cap stories set during WW2, wouldn't the first appearance in the Silver Age of the Red Skull actually be ToS 72?

[rjpb]

Also, since the story in ToS 65 is basically a retelling of the story in Captain America Comics #1 - does that mean the the GA Red Skull didn't actually appear until issue #3?

[Unca Ben]

As ToS 65 & 66 featured Cap stories set during WW2, wouldn't the first appearance in the Silver Age of the Red Skull actually be ToS 72?

 

You and I were thinking along the same lines.

 

Actually, the Red Skull appearance in TOS 72 is a flashback. The first appearance of the modern, not WWII, Red skull would be TOS #79.

Edited March 31, 2013 by ucleben

[rodan57]

As ToS 65 & 66 featured Cap stories set during WW2, wouldn't the first appearance in the Silver Age of the Red Skull actually be ToS 72?

 

No. To extend that logic, that would be as if the original Atlas Black Knight first appeared in the Middle Ages.

[vaillant]

Another character which is pretty problematic as "first appearances" is the Valkyrie.

 

Theoretically Valkyrie appears for the first time in Avengers #83 (one of the most original Marvel stories of the late silver age, where Tomas deals with the idea of female emancipation as perceived by the counterculture movements), but in fact she is revealed as the Enchantress in disguise.

 

After that, we have the first appearance of what would have become the "true" Valkyrie, Barbara Norriss, in Hulk #126, this is before Barbara’s inner balance and sanity would have been compromised by her and her husband’s involvement with the cult of the "Mindless Ones".

 

Then there is Hulk #142, where the Enchantress evokes the asgardian Valkyrie (Brunhilde) to be merged with Samantha Parrington as – it appears – she has «trapped Brunnhilde's soul in a mystical crystal centuries earlier» and thus she apparently can dispose of her evocation as she suits her needs. Does this counts for Avengers #83, then?

 

In Defenders #4, then, Steve Englehart manages to merge the Valkyrie’s essence with the persona of Barbara, which, if I recall correctly, protects Barbara from her insanity, but in fact she does not have memory of her previous life (see the relationship with the Valkyrie and Barbara’s husband Jack Norriss).

 

After that, the character story is furtherly refined in a few story arcs of the Defenders, but the question of the first appearance remains, as we have had both Brunhilde and Barbara (Kurt Busiek recovered Samantha Parrington as the Valkyrie as well, but this is less relevant, IMO).

[Beige]

It pays to _read_ the comics, not just "marvel" at the covers.

 

Not Marvel, but another example is World's Finest 173. Batman gets turned into Two Face, which would have made it Two Face's first (and only) SA appearance. But it's not Harvey Dent so it doesn't count. I believe Overstreets gets this right.

 

End result = no SA Two Face appearances; his first appearance since the Golden Age (and like, 6th overall) is Bats 234.

 

Not to mention the fact he was actually called Harvey KENT at first until deemed to similar to Supermans alias.

[rjpb]

As ToS 65 & 66 featured Cap stories set during WW2, wouldn't the first appearance in the Silver Age of the Red Skull actually be ToS 72?

 

No. To extend that logic, that would be as if the original Atlas Black Knight first appeared in the Middle Ages.

 

That's quite an extension, unless Timely was publishing Black Knight stories that far back.

[rjpb]

As ToS 65 & 66 featured Cap stories set during WW2, wouldn't the first appearance in the Silver Age of the Red Skull actually be ToS 72?

 

You and I were thinking along the same lines.

 

Actually, the Red Skull appearance in TOS 72 is a flashback. The first appearance of the modern, not WWII, Red skull would be TOS #79.

 

Ah, thanks. I didn't remember the specifics and was going on appearance info from GCD.

 

To be fair, I was mainly just trying to kick up some dust, as regardless of wether it's a WW2 story and not the "real" Red Skull, ToS 65 would count as the first time the character appears in a SA Marvel comic, much like Strange Tales 114 being the first time the Captain America character appears in a SA Marvel comic. That they were imposters may lessen the importance to collectors and continuity cops, but, especially considering all the retconning that goes on ( with post-war GA Cap no longer considered to be Steve Rogers), it can't be denied the costumes still make an appearance, and ultimately that's what signifies the character. Far fewer people would care today about the adventures of Steve Rogers, the Super Soldier, if he didn't have that snazzy red white and blue uniform and a catchy name to go with it.

[rjpb]

It pays to _read_ the comics, not just "marvel" at the covers.

 

Not Marvel, but another example is World's Finest 173. Batman gets turned into Two Face, which would have made it Two Face's first (and only) SA appearance. But it's not Harvey Dent so it doesn't count. I believe Overstreets gets this right.

 

End result = no SA Two Face appearances; his first appearance since the Golden Age (and like, 6th overall) is Bats 234.

 

Not to mention the fact he was actually called Harvey KENT at first until deemed to similar to Supermans alias.

 

This brings up an interesting point, as three GA Two-Face appearances were imposters ( including two cover appearances), yet I'm sure collectors of GA Two-Face appearances still include them on their want lists.

[StuporMan]

Excellent research. I find the last two panels particularly chilling with the Red Skull's demeanor when facing Cap. The Red Skull seems so confident and cavalier sitting a mere foot away from him.

[Humantop]

The Dr Stange appearance in TOS 41 which is not the actual Dr Strange but a villain, the real Dr Strange appears in Strange Tales 110.

[solarcadet]

Has anyone ever seen or know a value of the rare Mexican version of Captain America #100. It was released in the same year 1968 I believe but the print run was very small. Its not more valuable but by far more rare as there are zero CGCed. Im trying to find one and the only i have located is $1000...

Scarcity trumps in price apparently....

If anyone has seen one please hit me up Im willing to pay top dollar

[Aliens]

hey now first let me say i know this question is over 4 years old but i just need to answer it because no one here has answered this simple question correctly

heres the simple answer,

do you consider Captain America 1 to be the Red Skull's first appearance if you do then you consider TOS 65 to be his first SA appearance,

now if you consider Captain America 7 to be Red Skull's first appearance then TOS 65 would be considered as his first SA appearance too,

because Red Skull first appears as Maxon in Cap 1 and because people consider this to be his first then why should TOS 65 not be considered his first SA too, since both first appear as Maxon. 

if you want to consider ‎Johann Shmidt to be the true Red Skull (Which he is) then his first appearance as the red skull is in Cap 7 not in Cap 1 which means for those who considers Cap 7 Red skull's first appearance which i dont think many do than TOS 66 would be his true first SA  appearance.

as for Captain America making an earlier SA appearance which predates Avengers 4, here is why that book is not considered his first SA app. because Steve rogers is the original Cap in Cap 1 it was Steve Rogers who was behind the mask not this other guy so the first Steve Rogers Cap in the SA is avengers 4, but unlike this Red Skull first appeared as Maxon and later appeared as Shmidt which is the same thing in TOS,he first appears as Maxon in 65 and then as Shmidt in 66. 

Nuff' Said