Any love for the Valiant reboot?

[spreads]

Well aside from maybe the private equity guys, I doubt anyone else is privi'ed to Valiant's capital structure.

 

And look at publishers such as Oni and Titan....what are they averaging per title? 3k? 4k?

[dgarthwaite-migration]

It all comes down to basic math. Discounts on printing come with volume. The rates to retain competent artists and pay writers are based upon industry standards. I don't need to look at their finances to know that certain ratios of the cover price will never hit their pockets. The downward sales trend is pretty consistent. Enjoy the books while they are out there. Hope for a miracle.

 

DG

[Bosco685]

Looks like Valiant is trying to catch the attention of new readers by publishing a low-cost way to sample hit titles and stories.

 

GREATEST HITS #1! 100+ PAGES for Just $5.99! Coming in JANUARY!

 

This January, find out why VALIANT is the MUST READ superhero publisher in comics today with more than 100 pages of Valiant Comics greatness for just $5.99 – and a deep wholesale discount for retailers!

 

Valiant is proud to announce the upcoming release of MUST READ VALIANT: GREATEST HITS #1 – a specially priced, 112-page collection of critically adored, can’t-miss moments from across the Valiant Universe! Collecting X-O Manowar #5, Quantum and Woody #1, Harbinger #1, Harbinger Wars #2, and Shadowman #0, MUST READ VALIANT: GREATEST HITS #1 is the perfect place to find out why Valiant has IGN declaring: “Nobody is making superhero books like this, which is exactly why you should be paying attention to Valiant Comics.”

 

[valiantman]

Three good reads this week - Harbinger #20, Archer & Armstrong #17, and Unity #3. (thumbs u

[kimik]

Looks like Valiant is trying to catch the attention of new readers by publishing a low-cost way to sample hit titles and stories.

 

GREATEST HITS #1! 100+ PAGES for Just $5.99! Coming in JANUARY!

 

This January, find out why VALIANT is the MUST READ superhero publisher in comics today with more than 100 pages of Valiant Comics greatness for just $5.99 – and a deep wholesale discount for retailers!

 

Valiant is proud to announce the upcoming release of MUST READ VALIANT: GREATEST HITS #1 – a specially priced, 112-page collection of critically adored, can’t-miss moments from across the Valiant Universe! Collecting X-O Manowar #5, Quantum and Woody #1, Harbinger #1, Harbinger Wars #2, and Shadowman #0, MUST READ VALIANT: GREATEST HITS #1 is the perfect place to find out why Valiant has IGN declaring: “Nobody is making superhero books like this, which is exactly why you should be paying attention to Valiant Comics.”

 

 

Are they doing $1 reprints of the single books like other publishers have started to? That might be a better approach as that $5.99 cover price will likely drive people away.

 

 

[VEI Reborn]

 

A positive sign would be one or two titles with a steady or moderate growth over a 6 month period. I haven't seen any of their titles accomplish that.

 

DG

 

 

Interesting. I cant seem to find very many books that do this at all from any publisher. [go up in sales after #1 issue]. There are a few but that doesn't seem to be the norm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bosco685]

Are they doing $1 reprints of the single books like other publishers have started to? That might be a better approach as that $5.99 cover price will likely drive people away.

I think five combined books for $6 ($1.20/book) is not a bad deal. Otherwise, for these $1 books you have to pay for production of each individually versus a combined package.

 

But I get the intention. It is a good one, and maybe for some of the more key recent books it could make a lot of sense. Especially if the story will show the power of the new universe.

 

[valiantman]

Except for Harbinger #1, the other four books in the $5.99 trade were not available as $1 books.

 

I think all four are below $3.99 each for the first time in the $5.99 trade.

 

The first issues of the first 5 titles (including Harbinger #1) have a "One Dollar Debut" reprinting from mid-2013, and were also sold in a "bundle" (single sealed pack) for $4.99 at the time.

[rjrjr]

Except for Harbinger #1, the other four books in the $5.99 trade were not available as $1 books.

 

I think all four are below $3.99 each for the first time in the $5.99 trade.

 

The first issues of the first 5 titles (including Harbinger #1) have a "One Dollar Debut" reprinting from mid-2013, and were also sold in a "bundle" (single sealed pack) for $4.99 at the time.

 

Well, the X-O Manowar 5 is available for $0.65 on DCBS right now, but I get what you mean ...

 

I'm guessing the economics of this $5.99 book makes more sense to Valiant than 5 $1.00 or even 5 $1.50 books. Those $1.00 books did not sell well. There are even some still available at the LCS.

[kimik]

 

A positive sign would be one or two titles with a steady or moderate growth over a 6 month period. I haven't seen any of their titles accomplish that.

 

DG

 

 

Interesting. I cant seem to find very many books that do this at all from any publisher. [go up in sales after #1 issue]. There are a few but that doesn't seem to be the norm

 

For indie titles, the successful ones tend to slowly grow or maitain a higher than 10,000 print run long term. This is why I don't buy into the hype on books like Clone, Todd, Think Tank, etc. - at some point they will be cancelled due to declining numbers unless the TV/movie shows are actually produced and sales take off in a big way. Sooner or later it is not worth it.

 

For Marvel/DC, the titles that drop in readership too much get cancelled, or if they are a popular relaunched with a new #1. They can do this as the fan base that will be sucked into a bright and shiny all new now #1 is much larger to begin with.

 

In the case of Valiant, it looks like the there is a solid fan base of up to 10,000 loyal Valiant fanboys. This makes sense, due to the success of their early to mid 90s runs. While this provides a good foundation to build upon, unless they can grow the fanbase and expand this readership the company's success will be capped. I do not know the financial status of the company, but hopefully it makes it worthwhile for them to continue at these numbers.

 

Granted, it is likely more difficult for them to gain readers now due to the volume and quality of books being put out by other indies right now, but the sign of a healthy title is increasing or stable high sales, not a slow decline as readers move to other books.

[Bosco685]

Except for Harbinger #1, the other four books in the $5.99 trade were not available as $1 books.

 

I think all four are below $3.99 each for the first time in the $5.99 trade.

 

The first issues of the first 5 titles (including Harbinger #1) have a "One Dollar Debut" reprinting from mid-2013, and were also sold in a "bundle" (single sealed pack) for $4.99 at the time.

 

Well, the X-O Manowar 5 is available for $0.65 on DCBS right now, but I get what you mean ...

 

I'm guessing the economics of this $5.99 book makes more sense to Valiant than 5 $1.00 or even 5 $1.50 books. Those $1.00 books did not sell well. There are even some still available at the LCS.

 

That's what I mentioned earlier. Having to pay for production of five separate books versus a compilation, it is probably more cost-effective and a more complete sample having that $5.99 offering.

 

Then at least they encourage you to experience a few of the titles. Now, hopefully it pays off.

 

[kimik]

Except for Harbinger #1, the other four books in the $5.99 trade were not available as $1 books.

 

I think all four are below $3.99 each for the first time in the $5.99 trade.

 

The first issues of the first 5 titles (including Harbinger #1) have a "One Dollar Debut" reprinting from mid-2013, and were also sold in a "bundle" (single sealed pack) for $4.99 at the time.

 

Well, the X-O Manowar 5 is available for $0.65 on DCBS right now, but I get what you mean ...

 

I'm guessing the economics of this $5.99 book makes more sense to Valiant than 5 $1.00 or even 5 $1.50 books. Those $1.00 books did not sell well. There are even some still available at the LCS.

 

That's what I mentioned earlier. Having to pay for production of five separate books versus a compilation, it is probably more cost-effective and a more complete sample having that $5.99 offering.

 

Then at least they encourage you to experience a few of the titles. Now, hopefully it pays off.

 

 

But will new readers looking to experiment want to plunk $5.99 down for a reprint book rather than $1.00? I totally agree it makes sense from a business perspective, but if the $1.00 reprints did not sell well why do the $5.99 issues at a higher per book cost to prospective readers?

[Bosco685]

What does the average book sell for nowadays?

[FormerReader]

 

In the case of Valiant, it looks like the there is a solid fan base of up to 10,000 loyal Valiant fanboys. This makes sense, due to the success of their early to mid 90s runs. While this provides a good foundation to build upon, unless they can grow the fanbase and expand this readership the company's success will be capped. I do not know the financial status of the company, but hopefully it makes it worthwhile for them to continue at these numbers.

 

 

[Bosco685]

 

In the case of Valiant, it looks like the there is a solid fan base of up to 10,000 loyal Valiant fanboys. This makes sense, due to the success of their early to mid 90s runs. While this provides a good foundation to build upon, unless they can grow the fanbase and expand this readership the company's success will be capped. I do not know the financial status of the company, but hopefully it makes it worthwhile for them to continue at these numbers.

 

 

 

[VEI Reborn]

 

Granted, it is likely more difficult for them to gain readers now due to the volume and quality of books being put out by other indies right now, but the sign of a healthy title is increasing or stable high sales, not a slow decline as readers move to other books.

 

 

I am not trying to be a schmuck, I am being serious......can you name even 5 books in the past say 2 years that have increased in sales steadily other than WD and Saga? I seriously cant and none of the 100+ titles I read every month fit into that category. Do I just have bad taste in comics or is the theory correct just not accurate in this day and age?

 

To be clear, I fully understand your point of the 10k sales and agree the 10k are likely faboys of which I am one.

[kimik]

 

Granted, it is likely more difficult for them to gain readers now due to the volume and quality of books being put out by other indies right now, but the sign of a healthy title is increasing or stable high sales, not a slow decline as readers move to other books.

 

 

I am not trying to be a schmuck, I am being serious......can you name even 5 books in the past say 2 years that have increased in sales steadily other than WD and Saga? I seriously cant and none of the 100+ titles I read every month fit into that category. Do I just have bad taste in comics or is the theory correct just not accurate in this day and age?

 

To be clear, I fully understand your point of the 10k sales and agree the 10k are likely faboys of which I am one.

 

Nowhere Men was another I can recall without looking at numbers, until the massive artist non-performance delays hit. Even then, #1 is still a $10 - $20 book.

 

Almost every book today will pull back from the #1 speculation, but by issue six the keepers will stabilize and start rising. I view the 10k mark in monthly sales as the key threshold for longevity as at that point the creative talent will be seeing enough of a return to focus on the property. Anything below that is a bit of a crapshoot.

 

Valiant is fortunate that it has a loyal fanbase that will support the books in the 5,000 - just under 10,000 per month range. However, for the long term viability of the company and the books we enjoy reading, the sales numbers need to be increasing above the 10,000/month level. Right now the few books that were above it have dropped under that threshold, which means readers are leaving and/or LCSs are not ordering extra copies for the shelf any longer. Either way, it is not a positive sign.

 

FWIW, a lot of the Image books that are talked up on the boards fall into the same category - give it another year or two and see how many of the 2013 new series are still in print. Call me jaded if you like, but I saw the same pattern with the first, second and third iterations of Valiant properties in the 90s/early 2000s.

[dgarthwaite-migration]

 

A positive sign would be one or two titles with a steady or moderate growth over a 6 month period. I haven't seen any of their titles accomplish that.

 

DG

 

 

Interesting. I cant seem to find very many books that do this at all from any publisher. [go up in sales after #1 issue]. There are a few but that doesn't seem to be the norm

 

 

 

Marvel & DC sell based upon brand recognition alone. They have about 35% of their titles making a healthy enough profit to fund their flops. Dark Horse sells enough Star Wars comics to fund their flops. That'll end in the near future. Most companies have something selling above 18,000 copies to help financially counteract their books which lose money. I'd be very surprised if you see a another huge marketing push from Valiant as big as they did with Unity.

 

DG

[rjrjr]

 

What's the general sense on returns for Unity #1? Did your local LCS sell out? Do they have lots of issues remaining? Did they return any Unity #1s to Valiant?

[dgarthwaite-migration]

 

A positive sign would be one or two titles with a steady or moderate growth over a 6 month period. I haven't seen any of their titles accomplish that.

 

DG

 

 

Interesting. I cant seem to find very many books that do this at all from any publisher. [go up in sales after #1 issue]. There are a few but that doesn't seem to be the norm

 

For indie titles, the successful ones tend to slowly grow or maitain a higher than 10,000 print run long term. This is why I don't buy into the hype on books like Clone, Todd, Think Tank, etc. - at some point they will be cancelled due to declining numbers unless the TV/movie shows are actually produced and sales take off in a big way. Sooner or later it is not worth it.

 

For Marvel/DC, the titles that drop in readership too much get cancelled, or if they are a popular relaunched with a new #1. They can do this as the fan base that will be sucked into a bright and shiny all new now #1 is much larger to begin with.

 

In the case of Valiant, it looks like the there is a solid fan base of up to 10,000 loyal Valiant fanboys. This makes sense, due to the success of their early to mid 90s runs. While this provides a good foundation to build upon, unless they can grow the fanbase and expand this readership the company's success will be capped. I do not know the financial status of the company, but hopefully it makes it worthwhile for them to continue at these numbers.

 

Granted, it is likely more difficult for them to gain readers now due to the volume and quality of books being put out by other indies right now, but the sign of a healthy title is increasing or stable high sales, not a slow decline as readers move to other books.

 

I think 10,000 is a high estimate. If they are selling below 9,000 on their titles while still releasing variants as an incentive, there are clearly NOT 10,000 fans. A certain percentage of everything ordered by retailers will sit on the shelves unsold. Factor that shops ordered comics they don't need just to keep a few customers happy with variants, and the number of "fanboys" is nowhere near 10,000. I think an estimate of 5,000 would be a generous claim.

 

A collected TPB for $5.99 is a nice introductory price. There isn't a huge profit margin there. It's entirely an investment into obtaining readers. Lets look at the sales numbers in a few months. Their Rai HC only had orders for 349 copies if my memory is correct. Again, factor that a certain amount won't get sold and the others are being purchased by people who already collect the character. There isn't a huge influx of new customers there.

 

The real point I'm trying to make is that Valiant has been burning bridges with the excessive release of variants. Their "universe" is unfeasible and essentially an undesirable option for new readers to collect at this point. Collectors are the lifeblood to success for a title. Collectors buy the comics to sustain continuity and numbering even when the writing disappoints them. Readers are fickle. They follow creators and have no loyalty to a product.

 

As with any product, it's very difficult to win back a customer after they've been lost. A decision has already been made when a person drops a title. People are very resistant to reopen that internal debate after the decision was already made.

 

This is one reason the comic publishers make me want to vomit. All they want to see is positive praise and suppress genuine negative feedback. Unless a company knows the current state of their customers' collective opinion, they cannot address the weak points that prevent growth. The Valiant fanboys sucking up to the publisher for freebies and handouts are contributing to their ultimate failure. Valiant needs to be addressing the complaints, but instead people are whistling praise so loudly that Valiant is wasting money on luge uniforms and garbage that isn't helping them keep the customers they already had.

 

DG