Any love for the Valiant reboot?

[dgarthwaite-migration]

What's the general sense on returns for Unity #1? Did your local LCS sell out? Do they have lots of issues remaining? Did they return any Unity #1s to Valiant?

 

If the stores end up eating the costs on the unsold copies, negative consequences will be directly reflected in their future orders. If Valiant eats the cost, it will directly affect their ability to sustain. It's a shame they can't be directed to dollar stores or somewhere that might actually get the general public's attention.

 

DG

[dgarthwaite-migration]

 

Granted, it is likely more difficult for them to gain readers now due to the volume and quality of books being put out by other indies right now, but the sign of a healthy title is increasing or stable high sales, not a slow decline as readers move to other books.

 

 

I am not trying to be a schmuck, I am being serious......can you name even 5 books in the past say 2 years that have increased in sales steadily other than WD and Saga? I seriously cant and none of the 100+ titles I read every month fit into that category. Do I just have bad taste in comics or is the theory correct just not accurate in this day and age?

 

To be clear, I fully understand your point of the 10k sales and agree the 10k are likely faboys of which I am one.

 

Most titles are struggling. If the readership is hovering up and down in the same number range, that's a sign of stability. A steady decrease is a sign of problems.

 

Keep in mind that B&W comics are significantly cheaper to publish. That's just a random comment not meant to relate to anything you said above.

 

DG

[FormerReader]

Valiant is fortunate that it has a loyal fanbase that will support the books in the 5,000 - just under 10,000 per month range. However, for the long term viability of the company and the books we enjoy reading, the sales numbers need to be increasing above the 10,000/month level. Right now the few books that were above it have dropped under that threshold, which means readers are leaving and/or LCSs are not ordering extra copies for the shelf any longer. Either way, it is not a positive sign.

 

I think the fanbase is probably closer to 5k based on the number of issues sold and the fact that several fans buy the pullbox and regular version of each issue.

 

I think the next month or two we will see if Unity has had a positive effect on the other books and brought it more readers. So far it has been a great read to me. I hope others agree. I am hoping by March we are seeing most of the books above 10k.

[valiantman]

The growth of the graphic novel market and the 4-to-5-issue arcs that Valiant has been publishing on-time every month coincide nicely.

 

The $5.99 teaser book is the first "low cost graphic novel" that Valiant has produced.

In graphic novel pricing, $5.99 is the equivalent of a $1 comic.

I'd be surprised if there are many full color 100+ page glossy-cover squarebound comics/samplers under $5.99.

They're giving a taste of Valiant to the graphic novel audience, whether they've tried Valiant or not.

The $1 books were for the single issue crowd.

 

Valiant isn't a "must have whatever is new every week" publisher for most readers.

 

Graphic novel buyers are readers... if you increase that market, you're going to grow.

The "rabid" Valiant fanbase isn't waiting to read... they're buying the issues on Wednesdays.

 

Some are buying the variants, but it's not as many as you guys are estimating.

If 9,000 copies are sold, and you think 5,000 people are buying, that's about 80% buying dupes. That's too many.

There are more than 5,000 people buying Valiant books.

I'd estimate 10,000 people buy at least one Valiant title monthly,

and then the number who buy two, three, up to the entire line decreases from there.

 

Maybe you were saying there are 5,000 people who buy EVERY Valiant title in monthly form.

That's probably fair.

 

If that's the case then the graphic novel market is REALLY the way to build the company.

They're keeping the trades in print, about 5,000 per printing, and I believe

X-O Manowar Volume 1 is already on a third or fourth printing.

Those are readers... not variant collectors.

(Yes, X-O Manowar #1 had a fourth print, but I'm talking about the first volume of the trade.)

 

On any given day, someone can try Valiant.

If they like it, they can order the trades immediately at a comic shop or online.

They're all in print. They don't need to track down all the monthly issues. They don't need any variants.

 

That "any given day" can be literally ANY day.

Variants might increase monthly issue orders, but the quality of the books is what sells trades.

 

Trades will grow the company... if they can get them into new reader hands.

[FormerReader]

Some are buying the variants, but it's not as many as you guys are estimating.

If 9,000 copies are sold, and you think 5,000 people are buying, that's about 80% buying dupes. That's too many.

There are more than 5,000 people buying Valiant books.

I'd estimate 10,000 people buy at least one Valiant title monthly,

and then the number who buy two, three, up to the entire line decreases from there.

 

Maybe you were saying there are 5,000 people who buy EVERY Valiant title in monthly form.

That's probably fair.

 

 

You're probably correct Valiantman that the 5k number is probably a little low. I was just being conservative. The number appears to be between 5k to 10k. Either way let's hope to see Valiant slowly increase their readership so that we can continue to enjoy their books for years to come.

[mickhavoc-migration]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

 

Every single Valiant title is a great read every month.

 

I can't name any other publisher where this is true.

 

Convincing the few other comic types I know of this is difficult. It always ends in: "Well, maybe I'll pick up a trade to check it out."

 

Maybe they should try seasons and bust out a new #1 every year or so. So many people just don't when to jump in with issues like #16, #13, etc.

 

I don't have a problem with variants or any other marketing strategy to increase sales. As a company, they only exist as an entity to generate money. Luckily, they've based their foundation for this goal on strong stories and characters. Whatever else they want to try, go for it.

[dscythe]

Have to agree on the points made about trades by Valiantman.

I only buy three titles from valiant, well four if you count unity, and one of them is in trade. Buying the first trade when I couldn't find floppies on the shelf made it incredibly accessible, although now I'm stuck waiting months for my X-O trades. Which quite frankly sucks

 

Also, when I consider checking out new valiant titles, I'm looking at trades.

The low price point and high quality makes for a helluva combo.

[dgarthwaite-migration]

Some are buying the variants, but it's not as many as you guys are estimating.

If 9,000 copies are sold, and you think 5,000 people are buying, that's about 80% buying dupes. That's too many.

There are more than 5,000 people buying Valiant books.

I'd estimate 10,000 people buy at least one Valiant title monthly,

and then the number who buy two, three, up to the entire line decreases from there.

 

Maybe you were saying there are 5,000 people who buy EVERY Valiant title in monthly form.

That's probably fair.

 

You cannot be as naive as you appear to be with this post. I would say 5,000 fans is a high estimate.

 

Many variants are ordered in ratios. If a single customer demands a 1:20 variant along with his regular version, the store has to order 20 copies to get him that variant. The store may not have 19 additional customers, so they have to take the projected cost of any unsold comics and charge that one customer some jacked up price for the one variant. In the market it creates the illusion of demand and collectibility, but in reality only a small number of people care.

 

Some stores feel guilty charging that one enthusiastic fan some extremely high price for the variants and they sell them at a loss in relation to what it costs them to acquire it. They cross their fingers and hope that the regular version will sell out. If the store gets stuck with too many unsold copies of the regular version, they eventually quit ordering the excess comics required to get the variants.

 

Variants put stores in an awkward situation because there is no way to keep the customer happy without ordering product that sits unsold.

 

Marvel went one month without soliciting a variant for Hulk and the order numbers dropped by approximately 10,000 copies.

 

1:100 or 1:200 variants drastically skew the order numbers to misrepresent how many readers exist. It's a very unwise practice if a publisher cares anything about their future. It's a short term boost in order numbers, but it creates a long term decline in customers.

 

DG

[valiantman]

You're right... I need to re-calculate.

 

Valiant sells 9,000 copies per title. There are 8 titles.

 

OK, so, 72,000 books a month...

Given the number of variants, divided by the number of unsold copies,

carry the two... multiply by the square root of pi... and...

 

There are exactly 17 Valiant fans.

 

Thankfully, all 17 of us LOVE the books and we have unlimited disposable incomes.

 

Valiant... to your GREAT disappointment... will be fine... as long as all 17 of us keep making $100K+ per year and spending half on Valiant... as we currently do.

 

It's too bad you have so many better books than new Valiant in your collection,

or you would have read some Valiant by now... and be able to make an informed opinion...

instead of posting your opinion in every Valiant topic, in every other Valiant post,

about a company you watch from the other side of your looking glass.

What's with the Jabberwocky hateboner?

 

But, I guess you'll get around to reading Valiant later...

 

Don't you still have some decade-old Catfish Comics porn to "read"?

How's that Catfish Comics fan board doing? It's due for a 10th anniversary soon, right?

(I'm not kidding you guys... DG runs the Catfish Comics fan board.)

http://defiant1.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Catfish

Four of you guys should join and double his user total.

 

(A little heads up, though, when you see Defiant1 post and Quato respond... they're BOTH actually DG. Even he doesn't believe all the stuff he sees himself type.)

 

...and DG, for providing your website with more clicks in 24hours than you had in all of 2013... you're welcome.

 

jabberywocky hateboner

[dgarthwaite-migration]

 

 

Personal attacks because you don't want to accept facts?

Grow up.

Not everyone needs you to be their father figure. Some people are capable of independent thought on their own.

If Valiant sifted through my advice above, they'd drastically increase their chances of survival.

I post under a two dozen other names across the web. If you know about a name I use, then I have a good idea of how you know because I leave bread crumbs associated with many of them. Many are NO secret and I'll use two dozen more user names if I simply want to entertain the online stalkers. I advocate privacy. What is your point?

 

Google sends a steady flow of people my way. I don't need referral links to my board here. Unlike you, I purge shill accounts, inactive accounts, and those setup by spammers. I don't go around telling people I have hundreds of members when the actual count of real people visiting is much less.

 

Post it publicly here Greg:

 

Are you employed by Valiant?

Have you signed a non-disclosure contract?

 

DG

[rjrjr]

 

Don't you still have some decade-old Catfish Comics porn to "read"?

How's that Catfish Comics fan board doing? It's due for a 10th anniversary soon, right?

(I'm not kidding you guys... DG runs the Catfish Comics fan board.)

http://defiant1.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Catfish

Four of you guys should join and double his user total.

 

(A little heads up, though, when you see Defiant1 post and Quato respond... they're BOTH actually DG. Even he doesn't believe all the stuff he sees himself type.)

 

...and DG, for providing your website with more clicks in 24hours than you had in all of 2013... you're welcome.

 

jabberywocky hateboner

 

 

Just curious, but what does any of this have to do with anything DG posts here? Honestly, I think he steps over the line of civil discourse from time to time and he is very opinionated, but he is far from the only person to do so. I don't understand the personal attack though. I can only guess you two have some history here we are not aware of.

 

The rest of your post was funny though. You lost me with this last part though.

[CKB]

Thanks for connecting Defiant1 to dgarthwaite, Greg. I have had dgarthwaite on ignore for a long time just from his normal posting behavior without knowing who it was. Or possibly I had forgotten. Anyway, a refresher was well in order.

 

By the way, if you need me to sign up another 100 fake accounts at Valiantfans.com, just let me know. Since VEI is paying you by the number of words posted, we should clean up. I'll take payment in fake ValiantFans.com project COAs, as usual.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CKB]

I can only guess you two have some history here we are not aware of.

 

Long sordid history at valiantfans.com. It was a good day when Defiant1 stopped posting or was prevented from doing so. Can't remember which.

 

 

[rjrjr]

I can only guess you two have some history here we are not aware of.

 

Long sordid history at valiantfans.com. It was a good day when Defiant1 stopped posting or was prevented from doing so. Can't remember which.

 

 

I figured something like this must have occurred. Appreciate the info. (thumbs u Definitely want to stay out of this then.

[dgarthwaite-migration]

I can only guess you two have some history here we are not aware of.

 

Long sordid history at valiantfans.com. It was a good day when Defiant1 stopped posting or was prevented from doing so. Can't remember which.

 

 

I left on my own. The members voted for me to stay.

 

DG

[dgarthwaite-migration]

I can only guess you two have some history here we are not aware of.

 

Long sordid history at valiantfans.com. It was a good day when Defiant1 stopped posting or was prevented from doing so. Can't remember which.

 

 

I figured something like this must have occurred. Appreciate the info. (thumbs u Definitely want to stay out of this then.

 

Greg threatened me because we disagreed on what a comic should be called. I told him he could stick it. The rest is history.

 

I fixed Greg's hyperlink above link for him.

 

DG

[valiantman]

I left on my own. The members voted for me to stay.

That was over TEN years ago... and you claim I don't have any real board members now.

 

So, you must have had three actual people supporting you back then?

You're such a massive success and a leader as a rogue, Ms. Palin... how DO you do it?

 

I'll use two dozen more user names if I simply want to entertain the online stalkers.

Wait... you RIGGED the vote for yourself?

 

Brilliant. I had no idea... I'm genuinely impressed.

 

I don't go around telling people I have hundreds of members when the actual count of real people visiting is much less.

 

Post it publicly here Greg

Post it publicly here?

 

In the past 30 days, there have been 4,100 UNIQUE visitors to the website.

 

In the past 18 months, that number is 70,000 UNIQUE visitors.

 

I have NEVER been employed by Valiant.

 

Check. And. Mate.

 

How's dinner? You having Nike or Adidas again tonight?

[valiantman]

Just curious, but what does any of this have to do with anything DG posts here? Honestly, I think he steps over the line of civil discourse from time to time and he is very opinionated, but he is far from the only person to do so. I don't understand the personal attack though. I can only guess you two have some history here we are not aware of.

 

The rest of your post was funny though. You lost me with this last part though.

DG has spent more than ten years ONLINE telling the story of how Valiant failed him in 1992.

I'm sure before the internet, he was telling random people in the comic shop in 1995 how Valiant failed him three years earlier.

 

He presents himself as a paragon of knowledge about ethics, fandom, and the comic book industry...

while simultaneously promoting (literal) porn in comics, at least two failed fan message boards, tons of user accounts so he can be everywhere and agree with himself, and he's in this particular topic to denegrate the 2012 Small Publisher of the Year over their business practices... which MUST be working for them to be winning... and continually prognosticates that Valiant will fail while PROUDLY NOT reading the books.

 

What is the point of DG posting in this topic? The topic is "Any love for the Valiant reboot?"

He could post once... to say, "NO"... but even then, he hasn't TRIED the books... so that simple objection wouldn't be based on knowledge.

 

But he's posting OVER and OVER in this topic... why?

 

Ten years, I'm telling you... and he has publicly called me "Pontius Pilate" with the obvious implication that he is the Jesus I'm crucifying.

 

Yep... he's the Son of God. Move over, Kanye. It's DG.

(I sincerely hope Taylor Swift isn't a Valiant fan.)

 

But, by all means... let's hear what ELSE he has to say about Valiant.

He can't possibly be done talking about the company making books HE HASN'T READ.

 

I'm telling you, it's some kind of jabberwocky hateboner.

What's worse is I know that any time I tell his infamous story of Valiant woe, it gets... bigger.

 

Ugh, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[dgarthwaite-migration]

First off, I have no idea how you track your traffic and whether the includes your CGC stats page. I see no domain name associated with you graphs. The unique visits data is often quite erroneous and gets bumped up by the same people who sit around replying to dozens of threads.

Your board had a link to a SDCC interview with Dinesh on youtube and after two weeks it had less that 50 views on the youtube site. I was actually interested to see if Jim Shooter's friend J.C. Vaughn could hold a straight face while conducting the interview. It was fun watching the expressions on J.C. Vaughn's face. Evidently, there aren't a lot of people who cared what Dinesh said about Valiant's future plans or your board just isn't really effective at directing traffic. I walked away from hosting a website that generated over a half-million "unique visits", so numbers in the thousands isn't going to impress me.

 

My advice (positive encouragement) is to get TV exposure. Then you'll see what real traffic is.

 

I just wanted it on record that you say you aren't working for Valiant. I succeeded in annoying Michael Sacal so badly that he not only admitted that he was, but he also admitted that he'd signed a non-disclosure agreement. I like to establish the integrity of an individual. You know, like the time you said you didn't consider yourself to have inside connections to the CGC, then you posted the last post on this page: Link

 

I'm sure you love having a selective memory.

 

DG

 

 

[dgarthwaite-migration]

Valiant produced some of the best comics ever made. I don't hate Valiant or anyone that likes them. I hate theft. I hate lies. I have a strong dislike for ignorance and I'm not really wild about mediocrity. I'd honestly love for someone to release a better product onto the market.

 

Everyone seems to miss my comments online stating that Valiant's initial art was better than "most" of the other modern comics out there. I've complimented quite a few of their marketing strategies. Sadly, the end result is mediocrity because they adhere to decompressed stories and they release endless variants that will not endear either retailer or collectors to their cause. People hear what they want to hear and I'm not sitting around trying to tell you what you want to hear. I'm calling it like I see it. The facts are the facts and my opinions are my opinions. I don't tell you what opinion to have and I refuse to let anyone dictate what opinion I can have.

 

Everyone puts a spin on something. When your spin is deceptive and builds up hopes in people that are unfounded and can be hurtful to their budgets, I call it for what it is. You don't see me telling people not to buy their product. If you like buying the same comic 30 times when that same amount of money could be pooled together to buy a silver age key book... do it. To each their own. I posted in this thread to make my observation that Unity #1's marketing did NOT increase sales for the titles. There's no spin there... just published data.

 

DG