Fantastic Four reboot is already screwed up...

[Flaming_Telepath]

I can't see how changing a costume or hairstyle is anywhere near the same as changing the race of a character.

 

I can't see how changing a costume or hairstyle is anywhere near the same as changing the age of a character (Rogue in the X-Men.)

 

I can't see how changing a costume or hairstyle is anywhere near the same as grossly changing the physical appearance of a character (Logan/Wolverine & Tony Stark immediately come to mind.)

 

I notice you deliberately avoided Cage's jive-talk...or Sue Storm's little housewife gig...or Bane being taken down by Batmite.

 

And there isn't a man on the planet that could get closer to the comics' Tony Stark than RDJ.

[Unca Ben]

 

 

Why don't you tell me why changing the race / sex of a character that's been around for 50+ years is a positive thing.

 

I do not mean any offense but you sound like one of those guys who probably should've given up reading superhero comics a long, long time ago.

 

But I will add that you pack comics for shipping very well.

 

What does that mean? Really, what does it mean?

 

Are you saying that because I don't agree with your personal preferences, I should no longer be reading comics?

 

It means, FT, that guys like you and me that don't agree with Logan's opinion aren't real comic book fans and should find something else to read.

 

 

Don't feel bad, we both know those answers of full of it. It's one thing to hear H'Wood people spout them, but it really depresses me when I see alleged comic book fans parroting the same stuff.

 

I'll bet I bought my first Iron Man comic (TOS #54, featuring the Mandarin coincidentally) off the rack before he was born, and maybe before his parents were born, yet I am not qualified to be a true fan, in his eyes, 'cause I didn't have a problem with IM3.

[slym2none]

I can't see how changing a costume or hairstyle is anywhere near the same as changing the race of a character.

 

I can't see how changing a costume or hairstyle is anywhere near the same as changing the age of a character (Rogue in the X-Men.)

 

I can't see how changing a costume or hairstyle is anywhere near the same as grossly changing the physical appearance of a character (Logan/Wolverine & Tony Stark immediately come to mind.)

 

I notice you deliberately avoided Cage's jive-talk...or Sue Storm's little housewife gig...or Bane being taken down by Batmite.

 

And there isn't a man on the planet that could get closer to the comics' Tony Stark than RDJ.

 

Sue Storm grew up. She didn't grow another head.

 

Bat-Mite, I cannot explain. But, at least in Kevin Nolan's world, we didn't see Zatanna, or Mxyzsptlk, or any other far-out magical creature.

 

As for Cage, we can have him grow up too, and that means a costume change and being around a different crowd affected his speech - but let me latch onto that one:

 

We can have Luke Cage be black, dress contemporarily, and talk differently than he used to; conversely, we can have Luke Cage wear the silk shirt open to the navel, talk "jive," and be white, or Asian, or Arabian. Same difference, right?

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

As far as Tony Stark goes, I think RDJ doesn't look like him except for the black hair, and he doesn't act like him. He acts like RDJ.

 

There are plenty of tall, more muscular, more intimidating looking actors (both physically and in "intensity") that could play Tony Stark. TS is tall, muscular (6'1" and 225 pounds) and has a cool, calculating demeanor, not short, kinda wimpy, and full of zingers.

 

Tony Stark can make international businessmen wither with just a glance. His stare could either melt ice cubes or, if angered, boil water (figuratively.) RDJ just doesn't have that.

 

But again, I know I am in a minority in my opnions here. So be it, but I will stand by them and state my reasons.

 

And, nothing personal, ever.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Number 6]

Am I a bit disappointed that the casting may not look just like the comic? Yeah, a bit....for the same reason that I was disappointed that Emil Blonski wasn't played by a Russian and the Abomination didn't look the least bit amphibian. I know I'm not racist, it just a comic geek thing.

 

But will I boycott this movie? Honestly, if when the trailer comes out it looks like a ripping good movie I WILL go see it. And that's what will make or brake this (or any other) comic movie: whether or not it's a quality movie - not absolute fidelity to the source material, nor casting ever race in the human rainbow.

 

A great story, solid acting, competent direction - those are the things that'll put my butt in a seat.

 

 

[Unca Ben]

 

And, nothing personal, ever.

 

 

 

-slym

That's 'cause you're a good guy, slym.

[Logan510]

 

 

Why don't you tell me why changing the race / sex of a character that's been around for 50+ years is a positive thing.

 

I do not mean any offense but you sound like one of those guys who probably should've given up reading superhero comics a long, long time ago.

 

But I will add that you pack comics for shipping very well.

 

What does that mean? Really, what does it mean?

 

Are you saying that because I don't agree with your personal preferences, I should no longer be reading comics?

 

It means, FT, that guys like you and me that don't agree with Logan's opinion aren't real comic book fans and should find something else to read.

 

 

Don't feel bad, we both know those answers of full of it. It's one thing to hear H'Wood people spout them, but it really depresses me when I see alleged comic book fans parroting the same stuff.

 

I'll bet I bought my first Iron Man comic (TOS #54, featuring the Mandarin coincidentally) off the rack before he was born, and maybe before his parents were born, yet I am not qualified to be a true fan, in his eyes, 'cause I didn't have a problem with IM3.

 

When a person starts talking about how "silly" xyz would look or act on screen it means you've either bought into the H'Wood line of krap or that you've lost the magic. Fans who wonder about the sex lives of superheros or get a good chuckle out of "cute" lines in movies ( yellow spandex anyone? ) mocking the source material. Fans who will eat up wholesale changes made to characters they care for just so they can see them on the screen and not feel so embarrassed to be a comicbook fan when their "regular" friends like the movies.

 

Those are the kinds of people who probably should've moved on to something else

[Unca Ben]

 

Those are the kinds of people who probably should've moved on to something else

 

Would you like some change back from that ?

[Prince Namor]

Imagine Batmite taking care of Bane in DKR.

 

Sweet!

[slym2none]

 

And, nothing personal, ever.

 

That's 'cause you're a good guy, slym.

 

Thanks, ucleben!

 

Say, who is that in your av? He looks like he could have been one of my comic-book buddies back from junior high school days. I know it isn't, though - he unfortunately passed on at an early age due to diabetic complications.

 

 

 

-slym

[Prince Namor]

I may not be as hardline as Logan on this topic (though it's hard to tell in the ASM movie thread), but I understand where he's coming from in all of this.

 

Most of what makes the Fantastic Four great was established in the Kirby era, and whereas other creators have either (for the most part) repeated the stories in some watered down way or butchered it altogether; occasionally, someone like John Byrne comes along and gets it, respects it, and understands it - taking the Invisible Girl and her powers that match her personality and turning her into the Invisible Woman - things like that, but overall it's difficult to trust Hollywood to approach the material with that same sort of respect, trust and knowledge.

 

This can be irritating to long time fans of the comic, who see certain aspects of the story as important to who the characters are.

 

Because let's face it, the studios change things, simply because they feel they can market it better. It's all about commerce, not art.

 

When Byrne changed things during his time doing the FF, he had his reasons, and they were done with a respect and reverence to the original material. I may not have always agreed with it, but I understood where he was coming from.

 

I can't respect the idea of, "Let's make the Human Torch black because it'll make us more money!" Beyond not being faithful to the source material, I find that offensive.

 

 

 

 

[Unca Ben]

 

And, nothing personal, ever.

 

That's 'cause you're a good guy, slym.

 

Thanks, ucleben!

 

Say, who is that in your av? He looks like he could have been one of my comic-book buddies back from junior high school days. I know it isn't, though - he unfortunately passed on at an early age due to diabetic complications.

 

 

 

-slym

Joe Walsh, musician and guitarist.

[slym2none]

 

Say, who is that in your av?

Joe Walsh, musician and guitarist.

 

Jeez... I never knew he was a blond!

 

:doh: on me!

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Logan510]

I may not be as hardline as Logan on this topic (though it's hard to tell in the ASM movie thread), but I understand where he's coming from in all of this.

 

Most of what makes the Fantastic Four great was established in the Kirby era, and whereas other creators have either (for the most part) repeated the stories in some watered down way or butchered it altogether; occasionally, someone like John Byrne comes along and gets it, respects it, and understands it - taking the Invisible Girl and her powers that match her personality and turning her into the Invisible Woman - things like that, but overall it's difficult to trust Hollywood to approach the material with that same sort of respect, trust and knowledge.

 

This can be irritating to long time fans of the comic, who see certain aspects of the story as important to who the characters are.

 

Because let's face it, the studios change things, simply because they feel they can market it better. It's all about commerce, not art.

 

When Byrne changed things during his time doing the FF, he had his reasons, and they were done with a respect and reverence to the original material. I may not have always agreed with it, but I understood where he was coming from.

 

I can't respect the idea of, "Let's make the Human Torch black because it'll make us more money!" Beyond not being faithful to the source material, I find that offensive.

 

 

 

 

What saddens me most about these debates is that I'm arguing with people who grew up with and love this stuff as much as I do. These are the people that should be irritated when H'Wood kraps all over this stuff in the name of ego.

[Prince Namor]

 

Say, who is that in your av?

Joe Walsh, musician and guitarist.

 

Jeez... I never knew he was a blond!

 

:doh: on me!

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

One of my favorite Joe Walsh stories, and forgive me if I misquote it, as I'm going by memory, is of him drunk one night, getting in his limo and hearing the opening guitar riff to Richard Marx's "Don't Mean Nothin" on the radio.

Livid, he starts yelling, "That's my guitar riff! He stole my guitar riff! He stole my freaking guitar riff! Who is that! WHO is that???"

His limo driver looks at him calmly and says, "That's YOU, Joe. You played on that record."

 

 

[Prince Namor]

I may not be as hardline as Logan on this topic (though it's hard to tell in the ASM movie thread), but I understand where he's coming from in all of this.

 

Most of what makes the Fantastic Four great was established in the Kirby era, and whereas other creators have either (for the most part) repeated the stories in some watered down way or butchered it altogether; occasionally, someone like John Byrne comes along and gets it, respects it, and understands it - taking the Invisible Girl and her powers that match her personality and turning her into the Invisible Woman - things like that, but overall it's difficult to trust Hollywood to approach the material with that same sort of respect, trust and knowledge.

 

This can be irritating to long time fans of the comic, who see certain aspects of the story as important to who the characters are.

 

Because let's face it, the studios change things, simply because they feel they can market it better. It's all about commerce, not art.

 

When Byrne changed things during his time doing the FF, he had his reasons, and they were done with a respect and reverence to the original material. I may not have always agreed with it, but I understood where he was coming from.

 

I can't respect the idea of, "Let's make the Human Torch black because it'll make us more money!" Beyond not being faithful to the source material, I find that offensive.

 

 

 

 

What saddens me most about these debates is that I'm arguing with people who grew up with and love this stuff as much as I do. These are the people that should be irritated when H'Wood kraps all over this stuff in the name of ego.

 

A lot of people gave up hope along time ago, or just lost touch with it. Many just view it the same way as Hollywood does, and that it's all commerce to take advantage of and people are silly for caring that much about it.

 

 

[Unca Ben]

 

Say, who is that in your av?

Joe Walsh, musician and guitarist.

 

Jeez... I never knew he was a blond!

 

:doh: on me!

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

One of my favorite Joe Walsh stories, and forgive me if I misquote it, as I'm going by memory, is of him drunk one night, getting in his limo and hearing the opening guitar riff to Richard Marx's "Don't Mean Nothin" on the radio.

Livid, he starts yelling, "That's my guitar riff! He stole my guitar riff! He stole my freaking guitar riff! Who is that! WHO is that???"

His limo driver looks at him calmly and says, "That's YOU, Joe. You played on that record."

 

 

That would be Joe alright.

 

He's sobered up since then, saw him with the James gang reunion tour 'bout ten years ago and solo as well. Still got the chops.

 

Nice video, BTW.

[The-Collector]

I may not be as hardline as Logan on this topic (though it's hard to tell in the ASM movie thread), but I understand where he's coming from in all of this.

 

Most of what makes the Fantastic Four great was established in the Kirby era, and whereas other creators have either (for the most part) repeated the stories in some watered down way or butchered it altogether; occasionally, someone like John Byrne comes along and gets it, respects it, and understands it - taking the Invisible Girl and her powers that match her personality and turning her into the Invisible Woman - things like that, but overall it's difficult to trust Hollywood to approach the material with that same sort of respect, trust and knowledge.

 

This can be irritating to long time fans of the comic, who see certain aspects of the story as important to who the characters are.

 

Because let's face it, the studios change things, simply because they feel they can market it better. It's all about commerce, not art.

 

When Byrne changed things during his time doing the FF, he had his reasons, and they were done with a respect and reverence to the original material. I may not have always agreed with it, but I understood where he was coming from.

 

I can't respect the idea of, "Let's make the Human Torch black because it'll make us more money!" Beyond not being faithful to the source material, I find that offensive.

 

 

 

 

What saddens me most about these debates is that I'm arguing with people who grew up with and love this stuff as much as I do. These are the people that should be irritated when H'Wood kraps all over this stuff in the name of ego.

 

changing the race of a charcter has nothign to do with ego or money making. I doubt a black human torch will draw in mega dollars.

 

Additionally It is reactionary and overly simplistic to say that every Hollywood movie is awful. I have enjoyed 3 of the four Spider-Man movies. I really liked XM first class ditto for Sin City and 300. This doesn’t make me any less a fan.

 

I never consented to the movie being crapped on. My argument for changing it was to make a better movie. I believe race doesn’t matter because my preference isn’t for skin colour it is for the actor that creates the most immersive experience. So if anything I am not glad the movie is being craped on I am happy that directors can think laterally to use the best resources possible to bring the superhero world to life.

 

Your idea of fidelity is selective and secondly it is impossible as the characters have no definite identity.

 

Logan I have dismissed your argument to my satisfaction however it is obvious I will never convince you to your satisfaction.

 

 

[slym2none]

Your idea of fidelity is selective and secondly it is impossible as the characters have no definite identity.

 

Wait... what?

 

 

 

 

-slym

[The-Collector]

Your idea of fidelity is selective and secondly it is impossible as the characters have no definite identity.

 

Wait... what?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

Like FT and others have said, besides being a group of four their appearance and personalities have changed over the decades. The FF I grew up with in the 90s is different to the 60s FF.