One Last Posting on Man of Steel

[David Swan]

Man of Steel doesn't need my help and by the end of next weekend will likely pass the half billion dollar mark but I wanted to do one last posting in defense of the film.

 

Of all the criticisms leveled at the movie the one that gets me the most is that this is a darker Superman. Even defenders seem to admit that this version of Superman is darker. No No No. The Superman in Man of Steel is as good or better than any other interpretation I've ever seen. What he did at the end of the movie was unavoidable and ultimately heroic. I want to know where Superman does dark things in the movie. He allows a man to throw a beer in his face, he repeatedly saves people including his classmates, he even permits himself to be taken by Zod to what may very well be his doom to protect mankind. When he first dons the Superman suit and begins to learn to fly his emotion is pure exhilaration. Even Metropolis is shown as bright and much more cheerful than its counterpart, Gotham City. Superman is a heroic, inspiration figure who is cast into a dark situation and triumphs but Superman is not himself dark. He does NOTHING to bring shame to the legacy of Superman. Contrast this with Superman Returns where our hero spent his evenings peeping on Lois and Richard White.

 

What Superman isn't is goofy. His Clark isn't bumbling around perpetually pushing up his glasses. It seems like fans of the Superman MOVIES expect to see Lex Luthor with bumbling sidekicks and Superman spouting stiff corny dialogue. Anything else is DARK.

 

Batman Begins has been my favorite superhero movie but after Man of Steel I'm torn. BB is probably the more technically proficient and better written of the two but Man of Steel did something no other superhero film ever did. It made me feel real emotion. Batman Begins was thrilling but I never felt real emotion for the character. Bruce Wayne's quest to clean up crime always felt remote. I felt the intensity and dedication of Bruce Wayne but his pain was not unique and had occurred at least a decade in the past. When Zod grabbed Martha Kent by the neck and threw her to the ground and Superman unleashed his fury screaming "DON'T EVER THREATEN MY MOTHER" while hitting Zod like a literal locomotive there was an intensity that I never felt with Batman's angst over the death of his parents.

 

Unfortunately most of the best lines are in the trailers but in context they take on more emotional significance. I'm a huge James Bond fan but in all 23 movies I have only felt real emotion once and that was with the death of Tracy Bond and James final pathetically sad line. Man of Steel managed to stir emotions several times and when a movie can do that it has achieved something rare for me. Wayne's tragedy was sad but what Clark went through was horrific. First he learns he's not even human and by the end to have to destroy the last remnants of his own race to save his adopted world. It is the most heroic act any Superhero has ever performed.

 

See more journals by David Swan

[Ronnylama]

I always enjoy your posts. Thoughtful and to the point. I was equally moved at the end when Superman found himself caught in the middle of being the last of a race and his connection with the human race and the loneliness of that moment he had to choose was powerful. Lois Lane is great...she empathizes with him...And the very end...Quirky glasses and all...Awesome A great beginning to a franchise..Lex Luthor...where are you?

[SW3D]

Although i have not seen the movie... i have to respectfully disagree with you for the very fact that Superman, under no circumstances is to take a life. Why? Simply because Superman is supposed to reflect the very best of what humanity has to offer. A being of such great power, one that may or may not be DC's answer to Jesus Christ (what the Silver Surfer and Adam Warlock are to Marvel), cannot take a life. It is the one moral law or code Superman never breaks. By having Superman break such a righteous code, he no longer becomes this great symbol we all aspire to be... but another human willing to kill. Was there really no other way? Life is too precious... even the one misguided life of General Zod... and having Superman commit such an act is rather blasphemous in my opinion.

Maybe that is the very something that is eating away at the marrow of many critics who disliked the dark tone of the movie.

 

SW3D

[David Swan]

When I watched the movie and saw Superman break Zod's neck my immediate reaction was one of disappointment. It wasn't even that I felt Superman was wrong, I was disappointed that Goyer put him in the position where he had to kill and I mentioned this as one of my criticisms of the film to a friend as I walked out of the theater. But as I reflected back I changed my mind. Just because Superman killed does not diminish in any way the fact that he is an icon for us to strive for. In the context of the movie Superman had to make a quick decision to stop the carnage and let me tell you Metropolis was being torn to the ground.

 

Zack Snyder has addressed what Superman did and as far as I'm concerned made the right call. Superman is never established as having a no killing code.in the movie and this one act helps mold his moral code. I would be really surprised if he kills again in a Zack Snyder film. As to life being precious, I totally agree but Zod was killing hundreds or thousands with each thunderous punch. If he did manage to defeat Superman and there is nothing to say he couldn't Zod would have ripped the entire planet apart. I think one of the arguments is that Superman, as a nearly Godlike being, should enver have to kill but Zod was his equal and was getting stronger as he acclimated himself to his new powers. He was about to immolate a family with his heat vision, a power he had mastered only moments before. I'm not even sure Zod new how to fly at that point. He was shown just prior tearing up the side of a building like a bulldog because I don't think he could fly and most of the Kryptonians were flying spaceships. Zod was a trained fighter and in the war of attrition Superman was likely to lose eventually.

 

Our system of justice in America allows for killing in certain situations and in our world no one would convict a man for killing someone who could kill with the power of 1000 Nuclear bombs. As I said, my original response was that David Goyer should not have put Superman in that POSITION because in the context of the events no one could blame Superman or feel his morality was sacrificed because of what he did. However, Snyder and Goyer chose to put Superman in a much more realistic world and in reality sometimes these kinds of decisions have to be made.

 

This also isn't groundbreaking. John Byrne wrote a story where Superman killed Zod, Faora and another Kryptonian and based on what I saw on the screen Superman crushed Zod's hand and threw him to his death in Superman II but I never heard complaints because it wasn't definitively established.

 

Just my opinion but I think Superman's act make him more not less heroic and this is in the context of having seen the entire film.

[SW3D]

Thanks for your feedback. You make sound and logical arguments. I will see the movie and judge for myself but it still bugs me. The Superman i have grown to love and respect doesn't kill. I guess the times are a changing.

 

From the scenario you laid out, it sounds like Goyer, Snyder and maybe Nolan had taken a page from Alan Moore's Marvelman/Miracleman saga. If you recall in Miracleman 15, Miracleman makes the decision to kill Kid Miracleman who's gone on a psychotic rampage where he's murdered 40,000 Londoners, by tricking him to revert back to his teenage host Johnny Bates. At that point as he comforts an anguished Johnny Bates who is crying over the wake of destruction left by his alter ego, Miracleman breaks his neck. That decision he felt was the only was to stop a near omnipotent being from repeating such a catastrophy.

 

As for John Bryne, as much as i love his art and storytelling, i was never a fan of his take on Superman. It was about his time on Superman where i decided to quit comics. It actually surprises me that he would have Superman kill. That just doesn't sit well with me.

 

Hopefully the Man of Steel sequels will tackle his decision to kill and i am sure it will weigh heavy on his mind.

 

Just a quick question? Why would an advanced intelligent race of beings who have just gained near omnipotence resort to such abject barbaric actions? Does that make sense?

 

Anyway... i gotta see the movie. Maybe it will make sense to me in the end.

 

Can't wait to read another on of your journals.

 

SW3D

 

[David Swan]

"Why would an advanced intelligent race of beings who have just gained near omnipotence resort to such abject barbaric actions?"

 

I really don't want to go into it because it include all sorts of spoilers but if you see the movie I do believe it will make perfect sense. Zod's final rampage was a result of the utter failure of his life's only motivation. Zod wanted revenge on everyone and everything and in some weird twisted way you can actually sympathize with his anguish. Superman did not simply kill Zod and smack the dust of his hands. He begged Zod to stop and was devastated by what he had done.

 

I read the Miracleman story when it first came out and found it to be one of the most powerful moments ever in comics. I'm not sure that's what they were trying to duplicate but there are definitely similarities.

 

I'm with you on John Byrne and that was about the time I stopped collecting also. However, as to the no kill rule. Superman the Movie from 1978 gave Superman the luxury of easing into the role and really... did you want Superman in 2013 using his magic vision to repair dams or undo earthquakes by burrowing underground or reverse the rotation of the planet to turn back time. I was 8 in 1978 and even then it got a hmmmmm from me. Sometimes the decades can leave us with an unrealistic view of a movie. If Superman 1 had never been created and came out today with modern SFX the story would likely get savaged by the reviewers and fans would probably be terribly disappointed.

 

Snyder has made it clear that the killing will be addressed in future movies and his intention was to establish WHY Superman does not kill. Would Superman kill again if put into the exact same situation? Probably, but I can't see how it would ever be considered an evil act. Allowing Zod to continue would have been the far greater of two evils.

[Guest Grails]

The Superman i have grown to love and respect doesn't kill. I guess the times are a changing.

 

Superman has in fact killed (quite a few times) in order to save many in the comics.

[Alawson453]

Ok, if nobody else is going to call grails on this one I will. Please let me know which issues where Superman has killed anyone? I would love to buy/read it because I thought I had just about read all of his greatest stories and in fact have the hardcover of "Superman's Greatest Stories". Any book with him taking a life should automatically go to the top of the list.

 

David-I love the passion you have for the character and the stories. Me myself I love "The Boy Scout" who always finds another way. Let us all remember we are talking about a fictional character whose every action is directed by a mere mortal or group of.

 

So I believe in the comics and films heroes should not kill or be put into that situation by the writers. I think it sends a mixed message as Screenwriter pointed out. It's not ok to kill remember we have kids viewing a lot of this stuff and the first thing they will do is have their parents buy them all of the toys and costumes and everyone will want to be Superman because he gets to kill Zod.

 

We as adults can distinguish right from wrong and know it is just a movie, but the imprint upon a child last a long time.

[Alawson453]

I feel like this is taking place in the back corner of a bar. Wish I could buy guys all a round or two

[Guest Grails]

Ok, if nobody else is going to call grails on this one I will. Please let me know which issues where Superman has killed anyone?

 

I don't have the desire to look up the issues, I just remember he has taken lives. This was posted in another thread and shows a few examples but there are others.

 

 

 

this

 

The argument that tires me the most is that if I don't like it it's because I'm stuck on a Reeves Superman and I should embrace the changes to adapt to the current generation. I think that's compostable_fertilizer. Superman DOES NOT kill, period.

 

Nobody is telling you that you must love Man of Steel. If you don't like it, you are actually in good company with many others that have not.

 

But Superman does kill other beings.

 

- Superman Vol 2, #22 (Zod & company)

 

 

- Superman Vol 2, #75 (Doomsday)

 

 

- Superman Vol. 3 #3 (Heather)

 

 

It would appear Superman, when forced into a situation where a being offers him no choice in order to protect the masses, will do what he must. But with regrets.

 

I forgot about this one until someone sent me a PM reminder.

 

- Action Comics #583 (Mxyxptlk)

 

Alan Moore's amazing contribution to the Superman "ending", with the line "That's right, Mxyxptlk. Time to die."

 

 

Looks like Superman continues to take necessary steps, when forced to.

 

[Alawson453]

These are not the best of examples since Superman actually dies (and is eventually brought back to life) in his fight against Doomsday. The first example shows a character which cannot really be Superman using Green Kryptonite against the Zod Crew which can also kill Superman. The rest I will pull the books to check.

[SW3D]

Superman doesn't kill! Writers with weak imagination and lacking spiritual insight are the ones who kill!

 

Yes... that even includes my favorite writer, Alan Moore.

 

As i see it, a true Superman, the symbolic spiritual representation of our evovled selves, would vow never to take a life. It is a Spiritual Law which he cannot break. In order for Man to evolve Spiritually, he must foresake taking a life. Outside of the creation and Order of the Universe, Life is the greatest achievement of Creation. For us to take a life, big or small, is a Spiritual crime that will have profound and long lasting Karmic consequences!

Superman... intuitively knows this. Sadly, some top creators and artists forget this moral lesson and lose sight of it in all the chaos. Such is the violence and Spiritual decadence of our times.

 

Truly we need a Superman... a veritable spiritual Man of Steel... who doesn't bend to such weakness... more than ever!

 

SW3D

[Guest Grails]

These are not the best of examples since Superman actually dies (and is eventually brought back to life) in his fight against Doomsday.

 

Regardless of what happens to Superman, he killed another being.

[Guest Grails]

Superman doesn't kill! Writers with weak imagination and lacking spiritual insight are the ones who kill!

 

Yes... that even includes my favorite writer, Alan Moore.

 

As i see it, a true Superman, the symbolic spiritual representation of our evovled selves, would vow never to take a life. It is a Spiritual Law which he cannot break. In order for Man to evolve Spiritually, he must foresake taking a life. Outside of the creation and Order of the Universe, Life is the greatest achievement of Creation. For us to take a life, big or small, is a Spiritual crime that will have profound and long lasting Karmic consequences!

Superman... intuitively knows this. Sadly, some top creators and artists forget this moral lesson and lose sight of it in all the chaos. Such is the violence and Spiritual decadence of our times.

 

Truly we need a Superman... a veritable spiritual Man of Steel... who doesn't bend to such weakness... more than ever!

 

SW3D

 

I couldn't disagree more. You wouldn't take the life of someone who was about to murder the masses if there were no other options?

[SW3D]

It is a very profound question you ask. And i will admit, i am not spiritually evolved to answer such a question.

 

I am trying to break away from my instincts of self preservation and survival which may force me to act irrationally... through violence, vengeance, bloodshed, and ultimately death... towards understanding greater things than the self.

 

I think about the Nietzsche quote: "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you long gaze into the abyss... it gazes back into you."

 

SW3D

 

 

 

[Guest Grails]

I am trying to break away from my instincts of self preservation and survival which may force me to act irrationally... through violence, vengeance, bloodshed, and ultimately death... towards understanding greater things than the self.

 

I can respect that but I was not asking about self preservation but rather the preservation of others. When I put myself in that scenario, if the demise of many innocents (maybe my own family) is imminent and only I had the power to prevent it by taking the life of the attacker, I see the choice as simple. It would be wrong to do nothing. And I expect our heroes, even fictional, to make the right, hard and real decisions.

[David Swan]

"It would be wrong to do nothing. And I expect our heroes, even fictional, to make the right, hard and real decisions."

 

I agree 100% and Superman was put into an entirely unique situation. Zod could not be contained. Superman had no means of reopening the Phantom Zone and the moment Zod broke from Superman's grip thousands more would die not just the family in front of him. Zod was growing more powerful with each moment as he became more acclimated to his powers on Earth.

 

I have a feeling what screenwriter3d is saying is that Goyer should never have put Superman in that situation and that's a whole other topic of conversation. I simply cannot imagine anyone watching Man of Steel and thinking Superman did wrong by killing Zod.

 

You could compare it to writing a Donald Duck cartoon and having him come across pornography in his nephews sock drawer. Even though it is a real situation it's not appropriate given the character of Donald Duck. It's just that I disagree with screenwriter3d that Superman breaking Zod's neck was out of bounds but there is no right or wrong answer. It's all about your perception of the character and what you're willing to accept.

 

BTW: Superman used to originally kill all the time and we're not talking against world threats. We're talking regular old crooks. Generally it was more of Superman simply not lifting a finger to save a villain in mortal peril. One of Superman's MO's early on was to extract information by hoisting someone in the air and scaring them into talking. In one story I recently read the fellow had a heart attack and died because of the stress.

 

Man of Steel certainly was not a case of a NEW hard edged Superman taking the kid gloves off. In every instance of the movie Superman was a hero who helped people as best he could even if it meant sacrificing his own life and by handing himself over to Zod and that was a distinct possibility. I suggest to anyone to give the film a watch and then see if you still agree this is a new Superman that damages the image of the character..

 

 

[SW3D]

Maybe your right.

 

Here's a scenario...

 

Perhaps in the next Movie or Comic Book... Superman rips everyone's head's off... because its justified. Why not. I mean he beats the living daylights out of every super-criminal and throws their body parts around like some Spirit of Vengence teeing off on the golf course. Just blood and guts filling the screen/comic panel.

 

Perhaps Batman will do the same, and bring back his gun like in the 40's and blow Joker's brains out! Then he heads to Arkham and torches every criminal with a flame thrower. Burns them all down liked the Scourched Earth program!

 

Maybe WonderWoman will rip someone else's neck again like Maxwell Lord! And hang villians by her Magic Lasso for all the world to see.

 

Maybe Green Lantern fights to the death with every villian he encounters and cuts a bloody swath across the universe.

 

Maybe goody goody boy scout heroes do the same and just kill... because there is no other way. Because Violence and Killing seems to be the only way.

 

So week after week, each new villian that comes along gets killed. Forget prison... just kill the . Rip his head off!

 

Perhaps this will solve the Super-Villian problem?

 

Sound good?

 

SW3D

[Guest Grails]

[SW3D]

Such are the Karmic Consequences of Superman taking a Life and Breaking the Sacred Oath.

 

SW3D