Sweet Lou 14 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, mysterio said: I’ve always looked at this thread a couple of ways. If I’m being strict, pre-hero Marvel would refer to only five titles (JIM, ST, TOS, TTA, AA/AAF) that literally led to heroes. Not saying I support that definition, but it could be taken to mean that. A broader definition would include all those post-implosion books that feature sci-fi or monsters, even if the title didn’t eventually continue with a super hero. An even broader definition can include books that may not technically fall under either category above (either being Atlas books and/or never including heroes), but our pre-hero brethren would think was cool. They fit in spirit if not in letter of the law. See my post on my last purchase. What would be the expanded list for your second definition, and the even broader list for your third definition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, mysterio said: I’ve always looked at this thread a couple of ways. If I’m being strict, pre-hero Marvel would refer to only five titles (JIM, ST, TOS, TTA, AA/AAF) that literally led to heroes. Not saying I support that definition, but it could be taken to mean that. A broader definition would include all those post-implosion books that feature sci-fi or monsters, even if the title didn’t eventually continue with a super hero. An even broader definition can include books that may not technically fall under either category above (either being Atlas books and/or never including heroes), but our pre-hero brethren would think was cool. They fit in spirit if not in letter of the law. See my post on my last purchase. I agree that the PHM definition can be treated a couple of ways as you point out. Certainly the Big 5 are the purest definition. Just wanted to point out that the significant characteristics of the PHM genre (big goofy monsters, bolded nearly mon-syllabic names, Lee/Kirby/Ditko, etc) seemed to be first tried out in WoF18. TTA & TOS followed that trend with issues 8, ST was 72 and JIM 54 was the next one after WOF18. AA/AAF were much later in the lifecycle. But all valid points my friend! -bc mysterio, Sweet Lou 14, frozentundraguy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozentundraguy Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, bc said: I agree that the PHM definition can be treated a couple of ways as you point out. Certainly the Big 5 are the purest definition. Just wanted to point out that the significant characteristics of the PHM genre (big goofy monsters, bolded nearly mon-syllabic names, Lee/Kirby/Ditko, etc) seemed to be first tried out in WoF18. TTA & TOS followed that trend with issues 8, ST was 72 and JIM 54 was the next one after WOF18. AA/AAF were much later in the lifecycle. But all valid points my friend! -bc I guess it's not much of a stretch to back up to WOF 17, which features a cool Kirby robot and sci-fi cover. This book was my first early Marvel monster/sci-fi book. It was well loved when I got it. One other thought occurs to me with this book. The "guardian of the stars" seems eerily similar to "guardians of the universe", and this book predates Showcase #22 by 5 months. Could that possibly be a coincidence? mysterio, KirbyJack and bc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterio Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said: What would be the expanded list for your second definition, and the even broader list for your third definition? Second definition: the "World of" books are certainly the best examples here. I agree with @bc that WOF #18 is a crucial book to the genre. Strange Worlds also qualifies. This is likely my favorite definition without going too far down the slippery slope that erupts in the 3rd group. Third definition: quite a few titles here, like Astonishing, Marvel Tales, Menace, Mystic, Uncanny Tales, Spellbound, Journey into Unknown Worlds, the "Adventure into" titles (...Mystery, ...Terror, etc.), Mystery Tales, Mystical Tales, Strange Stories of Suspense & Strange Tales of the Unusual, not to mention all the pre-implosion Atlas issues of JIM and ST. The more I consider this third list, I think it is reasonable to limit these books to post-code. Pre-code is a different animal. YMMV. Exceptions made for pre-code JIM and ST. Edited April 9, 2020 by mysterio Remembered Strange Worlds, MT, SSS & STU, Astonishing, Menace KirbyJack, bc, frozentundraguy and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sweet Lou 14 Posted April 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2020 53 minutes ago, mysterio said: Second definition: the "World of" books are certainly the best examples here. I agree with @bc that WOF #18 is a crucial book to the genre. Strange Worlds also qualifies. This is likely my favorite definition without going too far down the slippery slope that erupts in the 3rd group. Third definition: quite a few titles here, like Astonishing, Marvel Tales, Menace, Mystic, Uncanny Tales, Spellbound, Journey into Unknown Worlds, the "Adventure into" titles (...Mystery, ...Terror, etc.), Mystery Tales, Mystical Tales, Strange Stories of Suspense & Strange Tales of the Unusual, not to mention all the pre-implosion Atlas issues of JIM and ST. The more I consider this third list, I think it is reasonable to limit these books to post-code. Pre-code is a different animal. YMMV. Exceptions made for pre-code JIM and ST. I never collected any PHM before coming to this board, and I've learned so much from this thread. Based on what I've learned, right now my want list would include: AA / AAF #1-14 (10 down, 4 to go) JIM #49-82 (21 down, 13 to go) Strange Tales #60-100 (22 down, 19 to go) TOS #1-38 (21 down, 17 to go) TTA #1-34 (24 down, 10 to go) WOF #1-19 (4 down, 15 to go) I do have a couple of pre-implosion JIM and Strange Tales, and I will be opportunistic in grabbing those when I can, but I don't have illusions of filling in the whole run (yet!). I also think about getting some of the other Atlas titles sometimes, but aside from grabbing Black Knight #1 I have held off. I need to finish all my Silver Age runs first ... not to mention hit the lottery and get a Captain America Comics #1! frozentundraguy, mysterio, KirbyJack and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterio Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Sweet Lou 14 said: I never collected any PHM before coming to this board, and I've learned so much from this thread. Based on what I've learned, right now my want list would include: AA / AAF #1-14 (10 down, 4 to go) JIM #49-82 (21 down, 13 to go) Strange Tales #60-100 (22 down, 19 to go) TOS #1-38 (21 down, 17 to go) TTA #1-34 (24 down, 10 to go) WOF #1-19 (4 down, 15 to go) I do have a couple of pre-implosion JIM and Strange Tales, and I will be opportunistic in grabbing those when I can, but I don't have illusions of filling in the whole run (yet!). I also think about getting some of the other Atlas titles sometimes, but aside from grabbing Black Knight #1 I have held off. I need to finish all my Silver Age runs first ... not to mention hit the lottery and get a Captain America Comics #1! Great start! When I was younger and more ambitious I thought about completing the set with the Atlas globe on the cover, any Atlas globe issue would qualify. The list is somewhere around 2,500 books, which isn't too awful. I think the challenge would be a lot of fun, but the price tags on some of these has scared me away (only so much budget to go around and I have other collecting goals that are more important to me). I did get a copy of this, though, which is supposed to be the last book with an Atlas globe (and maybe the most off-topic book posted in this thread). Edited April 10, 2020 by mysterio Sweet Lou 14, The Commissioner, KirbyJack and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyJack Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Yep. Pre code Atlas is a whole nuther thingie. But my definition is simple. Everything post implosion is Marvel. No hero yet? Then it’s a Pre Hero Marvel. Journey into Mystery 85? Just a Marvel. mysterio, Sweet Lou 14 and bc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozentundraguy Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I wonder if an Atlas logo book published just a few months before the official start of the S.A. (10/56) would be of interest, since were stretching the boundaries of this thread today? bc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bc Posted April 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2020 Man, I really miss talking with all you guys regularly Gonna try and get back to being more of a poster... Being a computer nerd coupled with a semi-OCD condition, just gotta chime in more on this topic. This is a screenshot of one of many spreadsheets I use to track things like this: I know its hard to see, but this one covers every Timely/Atlas/Marvel title from Amazing Mysteries 32 ('49 - the first horror title) until 1970. Compiled from many sources, updated with real-world info - some of these timelines were in the OSPG but they had errors once I secured the book. No - I do not have all of these - just a tool I use during my collecting. I do have every post-Implosion book that you can see in my Gallery. Don't ask what all the color-coding and highlighting mean in the spreadsheet, I've long since forgotten. Maybe the red numbers are one of those "prototype" issues they tag? Those Strange Tales & World of Fantasy issues during 1958 are leftover material that was ready to be published according to some Stan Lee articles. Strange Worlds #1 in 12/59 is hailed as the first new original material during that period and, to me, begins the post-code post-Implosion PHM genre. You can see that our later World of Fantasy issues could be included here as well. @Sweet Lou 14's list is fairly reflective of this spreadsheet (you forgot Strange Worlds ) @mysterio Dippy 1 is also the same book I've seen that was the last globe - and is more than welcome during this discussion. I passed on one a long while back because I didn't realize that significance...may have to add it to the hunt list if conventions ever restart. Geek Out! -bc frozentundraguy, The Commissioner, Mucheee1 and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterio Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, bc said: Man, I really miss talking with all you guys regularly Gonna try and get back to being more of a poster... Being a computer nerd coupled with a semi-OCD condition, just gotta chime in more on this topic. This is a screenshot of one of many spreadsheets I use to track things like this: I know its hard to see, but this one covers every Timely/Atlas/Marvel title from Amazing Mysteries 32 ('49 - the first horror title) until 1970. Compiled from many sources, updated with real-world info - some of these timelines were in the OSPG but they had errors once I secured the book. No - I do not have all of these - just a tool I use during my collecting. I do have every post-Implosion book that you can see in my Gallery. Don't ask what all the color-coding and highlighting mean in the spreadsheet, I've long since forgotten. Maybe the red numbers are one of those "prototype" issues they tag? Those Strange Tales & World of Fantasy issues during 1958 are leftover material that was ready to be published according to some Stan Lee articles. Strange Worlds #1 in 12/59 is hailed as the first new original material during that period and, to me, begins the post-code post-Implosion PHM genre. You can see that our later World of Fantasy issues could be included here as well. @Sweet Lou 14's list is fairly reflective of this spreadsheet (you forgot Strange Worlds ) @mysterio Dippy 1 is also the same book I've seen that was the last globe - and is more than welcome during this discussion. I passed on one a long while back because I didn't realize that significance...may have to add it to the hunt list if conventions ever restart. Geek Out! -bc That spreadsheet is amazing! I may need to hit you up for a copy. I chased down copies of Amazing Adventures #32-33 and Marvel Tales #93 for their significance to the history of Marvel/Atlas and this genre in particular. So many cool books produced in this era. bc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozentundraguy Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) Being another computer nerd I also love spreadsheets and data bases! Picked this book up at an LCS a couple of years ago, and was able to negotiate a slightly better price from the owner. This issue is the only one of the 61in the title to have multi-panels going across. There is one issue with a 4 part cover, split into squares. Edited April 10, 2020 by frozentundraguy bc, DR.X and mysterio 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bc Posted April 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, mysterio said: That spreadsheet is amazing! I may need to hit you up for a copy. I chased down copies of Amazing Adventures #32-33 and Marvel Tales #93 for their significance to the history of Marvel/Atlas and this genre in particular. So many cool books produced in this era. Yeah, Amazing Mysteries are the great-grandparents of the PHM genre. Had these since the '90's - the #35 is a Canadian Edition of #32. I like the "Marvel Comics" circle on these Don't think I've ever shown these here before... Not the best shape, but keepers for sure. -bc DR.X, mysterio, Sweet Lou 14 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Lou 14 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 3 hours ago, mysterio said: Great start! When I was younger and more ambitious I thought about completing the set with the Atlas globe on the cover, any Atlas globe issue would qualify. The list is somewhere around 2,500 books, which isn't too awful. I think the challenge would be a lot of fun, but the price tags on some of these has scared me away (only so much budget to go around and I have other collecting goals that are more important to me. I did get a copy of this, though, which is supposed to be the last book with an Atlas globe (and maybe the most off-topic book posted in this thread). As I scrolled down to look at the cover, I took a guess as to what the gag was going to be. I went with stepping on a rake. Should have known it was the ol' open manhole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Lou 14 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, mysterio said: That spreadsheet is amazing! I may need to hit you up for a copy. I chased down copies of Amazing Adventures #32-33 and Marvel Tales #93 for their significance to the history of Marvel/Atlas and this genre in particular. So many cool books produced in this era. +1 on the spreadsheet being amazing. I have something very similar. One thing though, I thought Strange Tales #60 is from December 1957? https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Strange_Tales_Vol_1_60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Lou 14 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, bc said: @Sweet Lou 14's list is fairly reflective of this spreadsheet (you forgot Strange Worlds ) I don't have any of those but consider that added to the want list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Lou 14 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 And by the way this is definitely the most fun thread on the boards. Always learning something new here. bc, mysterio and The Commissioner 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterio Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, frozentundraguy said: Being another computer nerd I also love spreadsheets and data bases! Picked this book up at an LCS a couple of years ago, and was able to negotiate a slightly better price from the owner. This issue is the only one of the 61in the title to have multi-panels going across. There is one issue with a 4 part cover, split into squares. I've always liked the multiple panel/story teaser covers. Plenty of great ones in these books. I know that ST and JIM did a three book run with multiple vignettes, and they're all generally tough. Here are the JIMs. I've got a #31 with a detached cover but grabbed this scan, and this is my former #32 (can't find the scan of my current 5.5) and 33. Edited April 10, 2020 by mysterio frozentundraguy, TheWatcher and bc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterio Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Here are the STs, I own none of them. Thought they were in a run like JIM but I was apparently mistaken. bc and TheWatcher 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterio Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Journey Into Unknown Worlds had a crack at them too (also not my copy). TheWatcher and bc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterio Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Marvel Tales (second to last issue, also not my copy). bc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...