When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[fantastic_four]

2. I wouldn't be able to handle leaving a ton of money on the table because I didn't press a book. It's easy for me though because I never viewed pressing as a hex or something bad. I buy pressed books and will even have my books pressed that are for my personal collection.

 

That's the reason that pisses me off the most. I really don't care much about pressing--just a little. But because it's decreasing the market for high-end books by increasing supply, I feel FORCED to press. Like I'm losing some of the appreciation on books I've owned for a decade or more if I DON'T press because other people pressing and increasing the supply has decreased the value of my books a bit, and the only way to regain that value is to play the same game hundreds of other high-end collectors are playing.

 

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose many thousands that other collectors who press have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

[Silver Surfer]

Dunno that I care about the old boys club or perceptions of unfairness from then, since I live in the here and now and don't have any examples of having personally left $ on the table or made any windfalls at that time. I can certainly see where someone who left quite a bit on the table would feel rooked.

 

I don't mind pressing, don't deny that it must ultimately be about the money, but I also prefer the appearance of a properly pressed book, vs. one with a moisture wave or finger bends or what have you. And for the time being anyway, CGC and the marketplace agrees with me. Which seems to set the anti-pressers into a world of endless fire. Yeesh.

 

How interesting, where Brian pointed out that Marnin had at least some of the Mass copies pressed for him by Susan. Doesn't bother me a whit, BUT wasn't Marnin one of those loudly proclaiming the virtues of virginal, unpressed books? Detroit Trolley collection, and all that?

 

How interesting, indeed.

 

Yes but I don't think Marnin pressed the Trolley books? I think at that point he was against pressing and at least he did provide full disclosure and what if any work was done to his books, provenance, no guessing game, etc, how refreshing an honest dealer and a good person- I think around here we refer to them as Gerber 10's.

[miraclemet]

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose a few thousand that other collectors have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

 

old label books seem to be the ones that sell for over GPA (thinking of various CLINK auctions), based on buyers speculating on a possible higher grade post press

 

[originalisbest]

Dunno that I care about the old boys club or perceptions of unfairness from then, since I live in the here and now and don't have any examples of having personally left $ on the table or made any windfalls at that time. I can certainly see where someone who left quite a bit on the table would feel rooked.

 

I don't mind pressing, don't deny that it must ultimately be about the money, but I also prefer the appearance of a properly pressed book, vs. one with a moisture wave or finger bends or what have you. And for the time being anyway, CGC and the marketplace agrees with me. Which seems to set the anti-pressers into a world of endless fire. Yeesh.

 

How interesting, where Brian pointed out that Marnin had at least some of the Mass copies pressed for him by Susan. Doesn't bother me a whit, BUT wasn't Marnin one of those loudly proclaiming the virtues of virginal, unpressed books? Detroit Trolley collection, and all that?

 

How interesting, indeed.

 

Yes but I don't think Marnin pressed the Trolley books? I think at that point he was against pressing and at least he did provide full disclosure and what if any work was done to his books, provenance, no guessing game, etc, how refreshing an honest dealer and a good person- I think around here we refer to them as Gerber 10's.

 

Lots of people are honest and refreshing. That includes dealers who deal in pressed books and others who climb on their high horse and claim not to.

[revat]

2. I wouldn't be able to handle leaving a ton of money on the table because I didn't press a book. It's easy for me though because I never viewed pressing as a hex or something bad. I buy pressed books and will even have my books pressed that are for my personal collection.

 

That's the reason that pisses me off the most. I really don't care much about pressing--just a little. But because it's decreasing the market for high-end books by increasing supply, I feel FORCED to press. Like I'm losing some of the appreciation on books I've owned for a decade or more if I DON'T press because other people pressing and increasing the supply has decreased the value of my books a bit, and the only way to regain that value is to play the same game hundreds of other high-end collectors are playing.

 

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose a few thousand that other collectors have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

 

bro, haven't you heard? that's strait swindling. You think you can just do whatever the hell you want to something that YOU own? Then attempt to sell that same thing for its market value to a willingbuyer giving them full disclosure for a mutually agreed upon price?

[originalisbest]

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose a few thousand that other collectors have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

 

old label books seem to be the ones that sell for over GPA (thinking of various CLINK auctions), based on buyers speculating on a possible higher grade post press

 

Yes, you could probably do just fine going this route if you had to sell, your #1 is pretty sweet. Then again, just because a book is in an old label doesn't mean it wasn't pressed. I would think only an original owner copy you personally knew 100% of the history of, would you be able to say for certain.

[Silver Surfer]

Dunno that I care about the old boys club or perceptions of unfairness from then, since I live in the here and now and don't have any examples of having personally left $ on the table or made any windfalls at that time. I can certainly see where someone who left quite a bit on the table would feel rooked.

 

I don't mind pressing, don't deny that it must ultimately be about the money, but I also prefer the appearance of a properly pressed book, vs. one with a moisture wave or finger bends or what have you. And for the time being anyway, CGC and the marketplace agrees with me. Which seems to set the anti-pressers into a world of endless fire. Yeesh.

 

How interesting, where Brian pointed out that Marnin had at least some of the Mass copies pressed for him by Susan. Doesn't bother me a whit, BUT wasn't Marnin one of those loudly proclaiming the virtues of virginal, unpressed books? Detroit Trolley collection, and all that?

 

How interesting, indeed.

 

Yes but I don't think Marnin pressed the Trolley books? I think at that point he was against pressing and at least he did provide full disclosure and what if any work was done to his books, provenance, no guessing game, etc, how refreshing an honest dealer and a good person- I think around here we refer to them as Gerber 10's.

 

Lots of people are honest and refreshing. That includes dealers who deal in pressed books and others who climb on their high horse and claim not to.

 

Marnin is about as good as it gets whether you want to admit it or not. I shudder to think what your opinion of the average dealer would be.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I know that many people have this image of people or dealers who press books as secretly profiting at the expense of the poor innocent, but that's just a convenient way to portray it that doesn't take the actual person into the equation.

 

I had an indecent where I sold a book and that book got upgraded after I sold it. The book and amount? No that important. Let's say that it wasn't 4 figures left on the table and it wasn't 5 figures left on the table. It was life changing money.

 

Did it sting? Of course. It didn't sting because someone straightened out paper fibers.

 

Please don't think that I can't relate to all of you and am being thick. It's just that it is a free economy and people are as open to winning as they are to losing. It's not all win.

 

Just like buying and selling resin (my allegorical? story from before), everyone has the option of how much they are willing to pay and how much work they are willing to put in.

 

 

I guess that's the difference between me and you. I would not have cared about someone else making the money. I would have been deeply saddened that a nice book had been pressed, especially if it was a scarce issue. If it was some silver age key, I'd care a lot less, because even AF 15 and FF 1, etc., are extremely common compared to the (far lower dollar value) GA books I collect.

 

Whoever made the money made it dishonestly. Feeling bad about "missing out" would be like feeling bad about "missing out" if someone you sold a comic to robbed a bank and made $100K.

 

The degree to which I'm upset about a book being pressed is very much proportional to how rare that book is, not how much it's worth. I want high-grade, white-paged, unpressed books for my collection, but I collect relatively scarce GA. For many issues, there may be only 1 high grade, white-paged copy in existence. Every time some sleazebag money grubber presses the one existing high-grade, white-paged copy of a particular issue, my chances of owning that issue in the condition I want go from slim to zero, not because of fate (like a fire or flood) but because of the greed of some conscienceless swindler.

 

What a crock.

 

Indeed. I wonder how outraged Mr. High-and-Mighty would be if one of those rare GA books he covets went from a VF to a VG because the owner *gasp* actually read the thing 30 times while in his possession? Should said collector be considered a sleazebag too since he was so greedy as to read his comics and damage it in the process? Clearly, the effect is the same: one less rare comic available in the grade HE wants, so why shouldn't the self-righteous indignation be any less?

 

[originalisbest]

I have no prob with Marnin, have bought from him in the past with no issues. I just think it's funny to hear of a tale of pressed books (Mass) of which I wasn't aware coming from the camp of one whom I understood to be a loud ANTI-pressing candidate (per the marketing of the Detroit Trolley books.)

 

The drama has been fun! Better'n the soaps by far. I don't have any opinions of average dealers -- even an average dealer might have a superb, unrecognized gem in their stock, and even a superb dealer might have an unrecognized clunker. I do know which dealers I prefer to deal with, and the best ones I never worry about, if I happen to get a clunker of a book from them, never a problem with returns.

 

To clarify: a clunker book for me is one with CT or moisture. Not one that's been pressed (assuming pressed properly.)

[fantastic_four]

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose a few thousand that other collectors have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

 

old label books seem to be the ones that sell for over GPA (thinking of various CLINK auctions), based on buyers speculating on a possible higher grade post press

 

Yes, you could probably do just fine going this route if you had to sell, your #1 is pretty sweet. Then again, just because a book is in an old label doesn't mean it wasn't pressed. I would think only an original owner copy you personally knew 100% of the history of, would you be able to say for certain.

 

I know it's not pressed because it has some back cover wrinkles along the spine that pressing would have easily removed. ANY book could have been spot-pressed, though, so it's impossible to rule it out on any book you didn't buy off the stands.

[originalisbest]

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose a few thousand that other collectors have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

 

old label books seem to be the ones that sell for over GPA (thinking of various CLINK auctions), based on buyers speculating on a possible higher grade post press

 

Yes, you could probably do just fine going this route if you had to sell, your #1 is pretty sweet. Then again, just because a book is in an old label doesn't mean it wasn't pressed. I would think only an original owner copy you personally knew 100% of the history of, would you be able to say for certain.

 

I know it's not pressed because it has some back cover wrinkles along the spine that pressing would have easily removed. ANY book could have been spot-pressed, though, so it's impossible to rule it out on any book you didn't buy off the stands.

 

In any case, a sweet book. One to be proud of -- I haven't anything nearly so cool!

[Silver Surfer]

So if Marnin pressed books but then later was against it and did not support it, spoke out against it somehow he is a bad guy? But others will be vague and say "assume that they are all pressed" but won't disclose if they have been pressed or not and you are ok with that approach?

[originalisbest]

This seems like the Marnin defense hour. I just get a kick out of those who loudly DECRY something they in fact have DONE. Anyway.

 

I have no prob with someone saying "assume all books have been pressed" because then it's MUCH easier, check the book out. If a good press job you won't be able to tell. If a bad press job, say "yuck" and pass on the book. A person selling a slab they bought from so-and-so won't be able to disclose what they don't KNOW. This isn't a hard concept.

[Bill1]

But I would say the most disturbing trend for me has to be the cutting up of low grade mega keys and selling them page by page.

 

 

A little off topic, but this is exactly what happened to the Dead Sea Scrolls about 5 years after they were discovered-- the locals found that they could get much more money selling fragments than entire (or more intact partial) scrolls, so they tore them up. What a shame.....

[Chespirito]

A little off topic, but this is exactly what happened to the Dead Sea Scrolls about 5 years after they were discovered-- the locals found that they could get much more money selling fragments than entire (or more intact partial) scrolls, so they tore them up. What a shame.....

 

It is sad, but to be fair it depends on the economic status of the locals; if those that did this, were doing it out of sheer necessity, I honestly can't blame them. I rather destroy a historical document if it somehow means my family will be fed...when it is all said and done, regardless of the numerous religious and historical factors, it's just paper. Lives are more important in the scheme of relevant importance

[Foolkiller]

I really would rather not speak for Marnin, but my understanding of his primary concern was what has actually happened. Everyone and their brother pressing and doing a bad job doing it, thereby damaging the books and turning things into a factory circus like environment.

 

Having a smaller number of books done by the best in the business (at the time) was not the same thing. I'm not sure if even that later evolved, but that was my understanding of the thought process.

[VintageComics]

So if Marnin pressed books but then later was against it and did not support it, spoke out against it somehow he is a bad guy?

 

I think a better question is, did Marnin have an obligation to tell everyone he pressed the Mass ped. 20 years ago before he sold them?

 

I personally don't think he did anything wrong and nobody is saying Marnin is a bad guy. I think he's terrific (I've only met him once).

 

But others will be vague and say "assume that they are all pressed" but won't disclose if they have been pressed or not and you are ok with that approach?

 

I think he's saying what I already said: the only way to know if a book is actually NOT PRESSED is if you bought it from the original owner. Otherwise, you really have no idea. You only know what you have done to it, which is almost meaningless on a 70 year old book.

 

[Silver Surfer]

Roy true but I'm talking about while the book was in the hands of the actual seller and their reluctance to disclose if they pressed it themselves, had a third party do it, etc.

[revat]

So if Marnin pressed books but then later was against it and did not support it, spoke out against it somehow he is a bad guy?

 

I think a better question is, did Marnin have an obligation to tell everyone he pressed the Mass ped. 20 years ago before he sold them?

 

I personally don't think he did anything wrong and nobody is saying Marnin is a bad guy. I think he's terrific (I've only met him once).

 

But others will be vague and say "assume that they are all pressed" but won't disclose if they have been pressed or not and you are ok with that approach?

 

I think he's saying what I already said: the only way to know if a book is actually NOT PRESSED is if you bought it from the original owner. Otherwise, you really have no idea. You only know what you have done to it, which is almost meaningless on a 70 year old book.

 

Actually, the only way to know for sure if it was not pressed is if you ARE the original owner. There is some financial incentive for saying a book wasn't pressed when it fact it was (as we can see from this thread).

 

With that being said, inspect your high dollar books closely, buy from those you trust if you care that much.

[gaz973]

2. I wouldn't be able to handle leaving a ton of money on the table because I didn't press a book. It's easy for me though because I never viewed pressing as a hex or something bad. I buy pressed books and will even have my books pressed that are for my personal collection.

 

That's the reason that pisses me off the most. I really don't care much about pressing--just a little. But because it's decreasing the market for high-end books by increasing supply, I feel FORCED to press. Like I'm losing some of the appreciation on books I've owned for a decade or more if I DON'T press because other people pressing and increasing the supply has decreased the value of my books a bit, and the only way to regain that value is to play the same game hundreds of other high-end collectors are playing.

 

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose many thousands that other collectors who press have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

Will you really be literally losing money by not pressing your books or will you just not be making as much as you could do? You're not forced to get them pressed, not everyone does.