Capitalization consequences of Ebay Kicking off 15,000 sellers....

[fantastic_four]

The whole framework is built on the pretext that buyers want free shipping, yet there is no evidence to support that claim

 

I'm sure they look at Amazon's stock price as all the evidence they need.

 

Speaking personally, that's a bit of a white whale example for me. In fact, I find on the contrary that not only do Amazon sellers charge for shipping, but they tack on a significant "Canadian tax" on many items, especially those in the outdoorsman category. I've found Amazon's site to be rife with barriers in this regard. A $50 item on Amazon.com is listed at nearly twice the price on Amazon.ca, plus shipping. I'm not allowed to order through Amazon.com so my only option is to pay through the nose on Amazon.ca, or source the exact same item from eBay.

 

The only exception seems to be books, but I refuse to buy anything from Amazon in this regard because the first and only time I ordered something from them was intended as a Christmas present for my Son, and the book arrived in a box that was too small for the book. So they crammed it in anyway and pretty much stuck me with a book that looked like it had been run over by a truck, when I paid "new" full-on retail price and it would be an understatement to say I was hardly thrilled about ending-up with a book a used book store wouldn't want due to its poor condition. Hard lesson to learn I guess, and if the saying "you get what you pay for" is Amazon's idea of bolstering sales, they can keep their "free shipping."

 

Edit: I recalled the exact example I last noticed when surfing on Amazon, and there are many others:

 

Garrett MD Sand Scoop - $38.79 free shipping on Amazon.com

 

Garret MD Sand Scoop - $82.28 plus shipping on Amazon.ca

 

Garret MD Sand Scoop - $39.99 plus shipping (showing $16.15 for my location) on eBay

 

I meant the stuff Amazon sells directly. Ebay is trying to become as solid an option for consumers as any other retail outlet, and all retail outlets who sell via the web have learned from Amazon that nothing sells better than free shipping. Most other retailers have followed suit. I don't think I've paid shipping from any of the last dozen or so sites I've bought from--it's something people are just starting to expect. Ebay sellers don't want to hear it because they don't think of themselves as a business, so Ebay will gradually force it upon them.

 

I don't view jacking up a price to include shipping to be ripping a customer off. Whether you build it in or charge them extra, they're still paying, but if you build it in, they just feel like they're paying less.

[VintageComics]

From the articles Conan linked to:

 

One reader who said eBay had blocked him from listing as part of the crackdown said the cut-off was Below Standard - "aka 1 or 2 star ratings on 1 or 2% of your transactions in any of the 4 DSR categories," he said.

 

 

Right, so buyers can leave anonymous, arbitrary and subjective Seller's Ratings and eBay judges a seller's performance based on this criteria.

 

You don't know who left them.

You don't know why they left them.

You can't rectify the situation and if the Buyer is off his rocker and unfair, there's nothing you can do about it.

 

It's Bizarro world.

 

Pretty sure that it could be considered illegal in any business outside of eBay.

 

And another quote:

 

A seller who was suspended today said he was told it was because he failed to refund buyers. "I had my listings removed today and received an email that my selling privileges are Indefinitely restricted...... which is nonsense because I have great feedback," he wrote. "When I called eBay they told me it was because there have been three instances in which I didn't refined buyers in cases and eBay had to. I wasn't aware that was problematic....."

 

So he fails to refund buyers and complains that he gets kicked off eBay? Good riddance.

 

I don't agree with a no questions asked refund in every instance and there isn't enough in that quote to know whether the seller or the buyer was actually in the right on this one.

 

Judging by eBay's track record, I'd be willing to flip a coin at this point to choose a side in that example.

[VintageComics]

all retail outlets who sell via the web have learned from Amazon that nothing sells better than free shipping.

 

The consumer is partly to blame of course. I've always had a problem with trying to get things as "cheap as possible".

 

I'd rather pay a little extra for quality and I'd definitely rather pay for shipping and have a little extra effort put into shipping rather than cutting corners and hoping something arrives properly packaged.

 

We've become a 'cutting corners' society and the buck just keep getting passed.

[fantastic_four]

Come to think of it, when I see stuff being sold on Amazon, if it isn't being sold by Amazon or one of their partners who participate in the Amazon free "super saver" shipping thing, I never, ever buy. I've come to require this. I also never buy anything from them unless I buy enough for free shipping, which used to be $25 worth of stuff but recently went up to $35.

 

I had to buy a replacement lamp for my 60" television a few months ago. I went to Amazon, but their one dealer who had the lamp charged like $8 shipping. I went to another web site and bought it there for the same price with free shipping.

[mschmidt]

From the articles Conan linked to:

 

One reader who said eBay had blocked him from listing as part of the crackdown said the cut-off was Below Standard - "aka 1 or 2 star ratings on 1 or 2% of your transactions in any of the 4 DSR categories," he said.

 

 

Right, so buyers can leave anonymous, arbitrary and subjective Seller's Ratings and eBay judges a seller's performance based on this criteria.

 

You don't know who left them.

You don't know why they left them.

You can't rectify the situation and if the Buyer is off his rocker and unfair, there's nothing you can do about it.

 

It's Bizarro world.

 

Pretty sure that it could be considered illegal in any business outside of eBay.

 

Pretty much all online 3rd party marketplaces use some sort of feedback model which, in turn, can lead you to getting kicked off the service if your ratings drop too low. Amazon's marketplace is no different.

 

If you offer free shipping, you get an automatic 5 star on the shipping cost DSR.

If you upload tracking info by the end of the next business day, you get an automatic 5 star on the shipping time DSR.

If there's no communication between you & the buyer, you get an automatic 5 star on the communication DSR.

 

If you can't deal with getting anonymous ratings on the service you provide, perhaps you shouldn't be selling anything? Also ... if you run a report on eBay, you can easily see who left you low DSRs.

 

And another quote:

 

A seller who was suspended today said he was told it was because he failed to refund buyers. "I had my listings removed today and received an email that my selling privileges are Indefinitely restricted...... which is nonsense because I have great feedback," he wrote. "When I called eBay they told me it was because there have been three instances in which I didn't refined buyers in cases and eBay had to. I wasn't aware that was problematic....."

 

So he fails to refund buyers and complains that he gets kicked off eBay? Good riddance.

 

I don't agree with a no questions asked refund in every instance and there isn't enough in that quote to know whether the seller or the buyer was actually in the right on this one.

 

Judging by eBay's track record, I'd be willing to flip a coin at this point to choose a side in that example.

 

It's fairly obvious that the buyers filled claims against him - which he lost - and he then didn't refund like he was supposed to. Whether the claims were justified or not are irrelevant - he didn't live up to his obligation as a seller.

[CKB]

Well, in some cases, you can - offer free shipping and you can't get your shipping DSR dinged.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

My last eBay transaction I found out they charged me 10% of the final bid price, and on top of that, a fee for shipping. I could not believe it. eBay did absolutely nothing to procure the shipping - that was all on me. The shipping amount was high because it was being shipped Internationally, and the insurance on the item alone was $20. When I asked them if they were on crack for thinking they could just take money from me without lifting a finger, they quickly refunded my money.

 

Their excuse for taking it is they are trying to discourage shipping profiteering, and I replied, so in cracking down on bad sellers scamming buyers, you lump everyone who ships, which include good sellers, and are turning the tables and starting to profit from your members instead?

 

In essence they are extorting sellers by forcing them to either ship for free, or pay a fee for shipping. So yeah, this is a sore point for me because it's caused everyone to hide the shipping costs in the item, causing all prices to rise, simply because eBay saw it as an opportunity to make more money.

 

even if you give free shipping eBay is still charging 10% of the shipping price in a fee. They just want you to think they aren't.

 

Whether you sell an item at $10 with a $5 shipping charge or sell it at $15 with free shipping, eBay still gets the same fees, 10%. So if you bake the shipping fee into the BIN or asking price eBay still gets their cut. It is just more irritating when they do it out in the open with a direct fee on the shipping charge.

 

I always thought their rationale for tacking a FVF onto the shipping charge was laughable. Allegedly they did it to lower shipping prices to buyers, when it actually forced a lot of sellers, like me, to raise shipping prices to offset the fee. They just wanted another revenue stream and spun one there.

 

You make back the percentage FVF on the shipping amount with the eBay shipping discount. Lots of times I make back 20% with the discount. It's advantageous to use eBay to buy and print your labels.

 

I actually like the way eBay did this. It was a great way to make fee avoidance a non-issue (which is why they did it), and people already playing by the rules come out even. There no need to raise the shipping charge, just use the "over the counter" USPS rate and it all works out.

 

 

[mysterio]

Well, in some cases, you can - offer free shipping and you can't get your shipping DSR dinged.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

My last eBay transaction I found out they charged me 10% of the final bid price, and on top of that, a fee for shipping. I could not believe it. eBay did absolutely nothing to procure the shipping - that was all on me. The shipping amount was high because it was being shipped Internationally, and the insurance on the item alone was $20. When I asked them if they were on crack for thinking they could just take money from me without lifting a finger, they quickly refunded my money.

 

Their excuse for taking it is they are trying to discourage shipping profiteering, and I replied, so in cracking down on bad sellers scamming buyers, you lump everyone who ships, which include good sellers, and are turning the tables and starting to profit from your members instead?

 

In essence they are extorting sellers by forcing them to either ship for free, or pay a fee for shipping. So yeah, this is a sore point for me because it's caused everyone to hide the shipping costs in the item, causing all prices to rise, simply because eBay saw it as an opportunity to make more money.

 

even if you give free shipping eBay is still charging 10% of the shipping price in a fee. They just want you to think they aren't.

 

Whether you sell an item at $10 with a $5 shipping charge or sell it at $15 with free shipping, eBay still gets the same fees, 10%. So if you bake the shipping fee into the BIN or asking price eBay still gets their cut. It is just more irritating when they do it out in the open with a direct fee on the shipping charge.

 

I always thought their rationale for tacking a FVF onto the shipping charge was laughable. Allegedly they did it to lower shipping prices to buyers, when it actually forced a lot of sellers, like me, to raise shipping prices to offset the fee. They just wanted another revenue stream and spun one there.

 

You make back the percentage FVF on the shipping amount with the eBay shipping discount. Lots of times I make back 20% with the discount. It's advantageous to use eBay to buy and print your labels.

 

I actually like the way eBay did this. It was a great way to make fee avoidance a non-issue (which is why they did it), and people already playing by the rules come out even. There no need to raise the shipping charge, just use the "over the counter" USPS rate and it all works out.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of this, save for the fact that you have to be a fairly high volume seller to get the 20% discount. I used to sell on eBay a LOT and hardly ever qualified for the discount because the vast majority of my sales were for fairly tiny amounts ($10 and under). Those are the types of sales where the tacked-on FVF on shipping really hurts.

 

My other question is on fee avoidance and exactly what you mean by that. I think you mean passing along the fees to the customers via higher shipping rates, rather than the seller actually avoiding paying fees. If that is the case, name any other business where the seller accepts a lower profit margin with a smile and doesn't raise prices to cover an increase in shipping costs? I'm with you about not gouging customers with unreasonable increases, but simply eating fees for the fun of it is not really a badge of honor in my book.

[comicwiz]

all retail outlets who sell via the web have learned from Amazon that nothing sells better than free shipping.

 

The consumer is partly to blame of course. I've always had a problem with trying to get things as "cheap as possible".

 

I'd rather pay a little extra for quality and I'd definitely rather pay for shipping and have a little extra effort put into shipping rather than cutting corners and hoping something arrives properly packaged.

 

We've become a 'cutting corners' society and the buck just keep getting passed.

 

Exactly. It's absolutely this distorted sense of entitlement that people should be getting "free shipping" that is responsible for the "hard" and "poor morale" that both afflicts and undermines the shipping industry.

[mschmidt]

Well, in some cases, you can - offer free shipping and you can't get your shipping DSR dinged.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

My last eBay transaction I found out they charged me 10% of the final bid price, and on top of that, a fee for shipping. I could not believe it. eBay did absolutely nothing to procure the shipping - that was all on me. The shipping amount was high because it was being shipped Internationally, and the insurance on the item alone was $20. When I asked them if they were on crack for thinking they could just take money from me without lifting a finger, they quickly refunded my money.

 

Their excuse for taking it is they are trying to discourage shipping profiteering, and I replied, so in cracking down on bad sellers scamming buyers, you lump everyone who ships, which include good sellers, and are turning the tables and starting to profit from your members instead?

 

In essence they are extorting sellers by forcing them to either ship for free, or pay a fee for shipping. So yeah, this is a sore point for me because it's caused everyone to hide the shipping costs in the item, causing all prices to rise, simply because eBay saw it as an opportunity to make more money.

 

even if you give free shipping eBay is still charging 10% of the shipping price in a fee. They just want you to think they aren't.

 

Whether you sell an item at $10 with a $5 shipping charge or sell it at $15 with free shipping, eBay still gets the same fees, 10%. So if you bake the shipping fee into the BIN or asking price eBay still gets their cut. It is just more irritating when they do it out in the open with a direct fee on the shipping charge.

 

I always thought their rationale for tacking a FVF onto the shipping charge was laughable. Allegedly they did it to lower shipping prices to buyers, when it actually forced a lot of sellers, like me, to raise shipping prices to offset the fee. They just wanted another revenue stream and spun one there.

 

You make back the percentage FVF on the shipping amount with the eBay shipping discount. Lots of times I make back 20% with the discount. It's advantageous to use eBay to buy and print your labels.

 

I actually like the way eBay did this. It was a great way to make fee avoidance a non-issue (which is why they did it), and people already playing by the rules come out even. There no need to raise the shipping charge, just use the "over the counter" USPS rate and it all works out.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of this, save for the fact that you have to be a fairly high volume seller to get the 20% discount. I used to sell on eBay a LOT and hardly ever qualified for the discount because the vast majority of my sales were for fairly tiny amounts ($10 and under). Those are the types of sales where the tacked-on FVF on shipping really hurts.

 

My other question is on fee avoidance and exactly what you mean by that. I think you mean passing along the fees to the customers via higher shipping rates, rather than the seller actually avoiding paying fees. If that is the case, name any other business where the seller accepts a lower profit margin with a smile and doesn't raise prices to cover an increase in shipping costs? I'm with you about not gouging customers with unreasonable increases, but simply eating fees for the fun of it is not really a badge of honor in my book.

 

No, it was exactly that - avoiding paying fees.

 

Prior to this change, if you listed a $150 item with a $5 BIN and a $145 shipping price, you'd only pay final value fees on the $5 - the end price for buyer would be the same, but eBay would loose a large chunk of the FVFs.

[fantastic_four]

all retail outlets who sell via the web have learned from Amazon that nothing sells better than free shipping.

 

The consumer is partly to blame of course. I've always had a problem with trying to get things as "cheap as possible".

 

I'd rather pay a little extra for quality and I'd definitely rather pay for shipping and have a little extra effort put into shipping rather than cutting corners and hoping something arrives properly packaged.

 

We've become a 'cutting corners' society and the buck just keep getting passed.

 

Exactly. It's absolutely this distorted sense of entitlement that people should be getting "free shipping" that is responsible for the "hard" and "poor morale" that both afflicts and undermines the shipping industry.

 

Yet the United States Postal Service loves it so much they're about to start delivering packages on Sundays almost entirely due to the profit potential from Amazon and their "free shipping."

[fantastic_four]

Free shipping reminds me of free refills on sodas--at one time a few stores and restaurants did it, but before long, they all had to do it. Nobody gives free refills on booze, though, so if you want the premium stuff, which in shipping means overnighting, insurance, etc, then you have to pay.

[comicwiz]

all retail outlets who sell via the web have learned from Amazon that nothing sells better than free shipping.

 

The consumer is partly to blame of course. I've always had a problem with trying to get things as "cheap as possible".

 

I'd rather pay a little extra for quality and I'd definitely rather pay for shipping and have a little extra effort put into shipping rather than cutting corners and hoping something arrives properly packaged.

 

We've become a 'cutting corners' society and the buck just keep getting passed.

 

Exactly. It's absolutely this distorted sense of entitlement that people should be getting "free shipping" that is responsible for the "hard" and "poor morale" that both afflicts and undermines the shipping industry.

 

Yet the United States Postal Service loves it so much they're about to start delivering packages on Sundays almost entirely due to the profit potential from Amazon and their "free shipping."

 

Your argument still rests on a massive fault line, because even IF they added an 8th day of the week and USPS decided to deliver on that day as well, it still wouldn't address the unending rants about the quality of service, DOA parcels, and stuff that goes missing.

[comicwiz]

Free shipping reminds me of free refills on drinks--at one time a few stores did it, but before long, they all had to do it.

 

eBay's FVF fee on shipping might influence hot dog vendors to start charging to breath the air outside.

[mysterio]

Well, in some cases, you can - offer free shipping and you can't get your shipping DSR dinged.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

My last eBay transaction I found out they charged me 10% of the final bid price, and on top of that, a fee for shipping. I could not believe it. eBay did absolutely nothing to procure the shipping - that was all on me. The shipping amount was high because it was being shipped Internationally, and the insurance on the item alone was $20. When I asked them if they were on crack for thinking they could just take money from me without lifting a finger, they quickly refunded my money.

 

Their excuse for taking it is they are trying to discourage shipping profiteering, and I replied, so in cracking down on bad sellers scamming buyers, you lump everyone who ships, which include good sellers, and are turning the tables and starting to profit from your members instead?

 

In essence they are extorting sellers by forcing them to either ship for free, or pay a fee for shipping. So yeah, this is a sore point for me because it's caused everyone to hide the shipping costs in the item, causing all prices to rise, simply because eBay saw it as an opportunity to make more money.

 

even if you give free shipping eBay is still charging 10% of the shipping price in a fee. They just want you to think they aren't.

 

Whether you sell an item at $10 with a $5 shipping charge or sell it at $15 with free shipping, eBay still gets the same fees, 10%. So if you bake the shipping fee into the BIN or asking price eBay still gets their cut. It is just more irritating when they do it out in the open with a direct fee on the shipping charge.

 

I always thought their rationale for tacking a FVF onto the shipping charge was laughable. Allegedly they did it to lower shipping prices to buyers, when it actually forced a lot of sellers, like me, to raise shipping prices to offset the fee. They just wanted another revenue stream and spun one there.

 

You make back the percentage FVF on the shipping amount with the eBay shipping discount. Lots of times I make back 20% with the discount. It's advantageous to use eBay to buy and print your labels.

 

I actually like the way eBay did this. It was a great way to make fee avoidance a non-issue (which is why they did it), and people already playing by the rules come out even. There no need to raise the shipping charge, just use the "over the counter" USPS rate and it all works out.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of this, save for the fact that you have to be a fairly high volume seller to get the 20% discount. I used to sell on eBay a LOT and hardly ever qualified for the discount because the vast majority of my sales were for fairly tiny amounts ($10 and under). Those are the types of sales where the tacked-on FVF on shipping really hurts.

 

My other question is on fee avoidance and exactly what you mean by that. I think you mean passing along the fees to the customers via higher shipping rates, rather than the seller actually avoiding paying fees. If that is the case, name any other business where the seller accepts a lower profit margin with a smile and doesn't raise prices to cover an increase in shipping costs? I'm with you about not gouging customers with unreasonable increases, but simply eating fees for the fun of it is not really a badge of honor in my book.

 

No, it was exactly that - avoiding paying fees.

 

Prior to this change, if you listed a $150 item with a $5 BIN and a $145 shipping price, you'd only pay final value fees on the $5 - the end price for buyer would be the same, but eBay would loose a large chunk of the FVFs.

 

I had heard rumors that people were doing that sort of silly stuff, but never saw one myself though I spent a lot of time there. How many people actually bought things that way? Anyone here want to own up to having bought something with a $145 shipping fee? Maybe it is just me (it happens often enough), but this seems like one of those obviously crazy exceptions that everyone brings up in a discussion like this, but nobody can produce an example.

[mschmidt]

Well, in some cases, you can - offer free shipping and you can't get your shipping DSR dinged.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

My last eBay transaction I found out they charged me 10% of the final bid price, and on top of that, a fee for shipping. I could not believe it. eBay did absolutely nothing to procure the shipping - that was all on me. The shipping amount was high because it was being shipped Internationally, and the insurance on the item alone was $20. When I asked them if they were on crack for thinking they could just take money from me without lifting a finger, they quickly refunded my money.

 

Their excuse for taking it is they are trying to discourage shipping profiteering, and I replied, so in cracking down on bad sellers scamming buyers, you lump everyone who ships, which include good sellers, and are turning the tables and starting to profit from your members instead?

 

In essence they are extorting sellers by forcing them to either ship for free, or pay a fee for shipping. So yeah, this is a sore point for me because it's caused everyone to hide the shipping costs in the item, causing all prices to rise, simply because eBay saw it as an opportunity to make more money.

 

even if you give free shipping eBay is still charging 10% of the shipping price in a fee. They just want you to think they aren't.

 

Whether you sell an item at $10 with a $5 shipping charge or sell it at $15 with free shipping, eBay still gets the same fees, 10%. So if you bake the shipping fee into the BIN or asking price eBay still gets their cut. It is just more irritating when they do it out in the open with a direct fee on the shipping charge.

 

I always thought their rationale for tacking a FVF onto the shipping charge was laughable. Allegedly they did it to lower shipping prices to buyers, when it actually forced a lot of sellers, like me, to raise shipping prices to offset the fee. They just wanted another revenue stream and spun one there.

 

You make back the percentage FVF on the shipping amount with the eBay shipping discount. Lots of times I make back 20% with the discount. It's advantageous to use eBay to buy and print your labels.

 

I actually like the way eBay did this. It was a great way to make fee avoidance a non-issue (which is why they did it), and people already playing by the rules come out even. There no need to raise the shipping charge, just use the "over the counter" USPS rate and it all works out.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of this, save for the fact that you have to be a fairly high volume seller to get the 20% discount. I used to sell on eBay a LOT and hardly ever qualified for the discount because the vast majority of my sales were for fairly tiny amounts ($10 and under). Those are the types of sales where the tacked-on FVF on shipping really hurts.

 

My other question is on fee avoidance and exactly what you mean by that. I think you mean passing along the fees to the customers via higher shipping rates, rather than the seller actually avoiding paying fees. If that is the case, name any other business where the seller accepts a lower profit margin with a smile and doesn't raise prices to cover an increase in shipping costs? I'm with you about not gouging customers with unreasonable increases, but simply eating fees for the fun of it is not really a badge of honor in my book.

 

No, it was exactly that - avoiding paying fees.

 

Prior to this change, if you listed a $150 item with a $5 BIN and a $145 shipping price, you'd only pay final value fees on the $5 - the end price for buyer would be the same, but eBay would loose a large chunk of the FVFs.

 

I had heard rumors that people were doing that sort of silly stuff, but never saw one myself though I spent a lot of time there. How many people actually bought things that way? Anyone here want to own up to having bought something with a $145 shipping fee? Maybe it is just me (it happens often enough), but this seems like one of those obviously crazy exceptions that everyone brings up in a discussion like this, but nobody can produce an example.

 

I never bought one of these auctions - because, as an eBay seller, I thought it was a crappy thing to do - but there were tons of them on eBay back in the day. Not so much in comics, but in the electronics and consumer luxury goods categories they were everywhere.

[comicwiz]

Well, in some cases, you can - offer free shipping and you can't get your shipping DSR dinged.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

My last eBay transaction I found out they charged me 10% of the final bid price, and on top of that, a fee for shipping. I could not believe it. eBay did absolutely nothing to procure the shipping - that was all on me. The shipping amount was high because it was being shipped Internationally, and the insurance on the item alone was $20. When I asked them if they were on crack for thinking they could just take money from me without lifting a finger, they quickly refunded my money.

 

Their excuse for taking it is they are trying to discourage shipping profiteering, and I replied, so in cracking down on bad sellers scamming buyers, you lump everyone who ships, which include good sellers, and are turning the tables and starting to profit from your members instead?

 

In essence they are extorting sellers by forcing them to either ship for free, or pay a fee for shipping. So yeah, this is a sore point for me because it's caused everyone to hide the shipping costs in the item, causing all prices to rise, simply because eBay saw it as an opportunity to make more money.

 

even if you give free shipping eBay is still charging 10% of the shipping price in a fee. They just want you to think they aren't.

 

Whether you sell an item at $10 with a $5 shipping charge or sell it at $15 with free shipping, eBay still gets the same fees, 10%. So if you bake the shipping fee into the BIN or asking price eBay still gets their cut. It is just more irritating when they do it out in the open with a direct fee on the shipping charge.

 

I always thought their rationale for tacking a FVF onto the shipping charge was laughable. Allegedly they did it to lower shipping prices to buyers, when it actually forced a lot of sellers, like me, to raise shipping prices to offset the fee. They just wanted another revenue stream and spun one there.

 

You make back the percentage FVF on the shipping amount with the eBay shipping discount. Lots of times I make back 20% with the discount. It's advantageous to use eBay to buy and print your labels.

 

I actually like the way eBay did this. It was a great way to make fee avoidance a non-issue (which is why they did it), and people already playing by the rules come out even. There no need to raise the shipping charge, just use the "over the counter" USPS rate and it all works out.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of this, save for the fact that you have to be a fairly high volume seller to get the 20% discount. I used to sell on eBay a LOT and hardly ever qualified for the discount because the vast majority of my sales were for fairly tiny amounts ($10 and under). Those are the types of sales where the tacked-on FVF on shipping really hurts.

 

My other question is on fee avoidance and exactly what you mean by that. I think you mean passing along the fees to the customers via higher shipping rates, rather than the seller actually avoiding paying fees. If that is the case, name any other business where the seller accepts a lower profit margin with a smile and doesn't raise prices to cover an increase in shipping costs? I'm with you about not gouging customers with unreasonable increases, but simply eating fees for the fun of it is not really a badge of honor in my book.

 

No, it was exactly that - avoiding paying fees.

 

Prior to this change, if you listed a $150 item with a $5 BIN and a $145 shipping price, you'd only pay final value fees on the $5 - the end price for buyer would be the same, but eBay would loose a large chunk of the FVFs.

 

I had heard rumors that people were doing that sort of silly stuff, but never saw one myself though I spent a lot of time there. How many people actually bought things that way? Anyone here want to own up to having bought something with a $145 shipping fee? Maybe it is just me (it happens often enough), but this seems like one of those obviously crazy exceptions that everyone brings up in a discussion like this, but nobody can produce an example.

 

OT: Hi friend

[mysterio]

Well, in some cases, you can - offer free shipping and you can't get your shipping DSR dinged.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

My last eBay transaction I found out they charged me 10% of the final bid price, and on top of that, a fee for shipping. I could not believe it. eBay did absolutely nothing to procure the shipping - that was all on me. The shipping amount was high because it was being shipped Internationally, and the insurance on the item alone was $20. When I asked them if they were on crack for thinking they could just take money from me without lifting a finger, they quickly refunded my money.

 

Their excuse for taking it is they are trying to discourage shipping profiteering, and I replied, so in cracking down on bad sellers scamming buyers, you lump everyone who ships, which include good sellers, and are turning the tables and starting to profit from your members instead?

 

In essence they are extorting sellers by forcing them to either ship for free, or pay a fee for shipping. So yeah, this is a sore point for me because it's caused everyone to hide the shipping costs in the item, causing all prices to rise, simply because eBay saw it as an opportunity to make more money.

 

even if you give free shipping eBay is still charging 10% of the shipping price in a fee. They just want you to think they aren't.

 

Whether you sell an item at $10 with a $5 shipping charge or sell it at $15 with free shipping, eBay still gets the same fees, 10%. So if you bake the shipping fee into the BIN or asking price eBay still gets their cut. It is just more irritating when they do it out in the open with a direct fee on the shipping charge.

 

I always thought their rationale for tacking a FVF onto the shipping charge was laughable. Allegedly they did it to lower shipping prices to buyers, when it actually forced a lot of sellers, like me, to raise shipping prices to offset the fee. They just wanted another revenue stream and spun one there.

 

You make back the percentage FVF on the shipping amount with the eBay shipping discount. Lots of times I make back 20% with the discount. It's advantageous to use eBay to buy and print your labels.

 

I actually like the way eBay did this. It was a great way to make fee avoidance a non-issue (which is why they did it), and people already playing by the rules come out even. There no need to raise the shipping charge, just use the "over the counter" USPS rate and it all works out.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of this, save for the fact that you have to be a fairly high volume seller to get the 20% discount. I used to sell on eBay a LOT and hardly ever qualified for the discount because the vast majority of my sales were for fairly tiny amounts ($10 and under). Those are the types of sales where the tacked-on FVF on shipping really hurts.

 

My other question is on fee avoidance and exactly what you mean by that. I think you mean passing along the fees to the customers via higher shipping rates, rather than the seller actually avoiding paying fees. If that is the case, name any other business where the seller accepts a lower profit margin with a smile and doesn't raise prices to cover an increase in shipping costs? I'm with you about not gouging customers with unreasonable increases, but simply eating fees for the fun of it is not really a badge of honor in my book.

 

No, it was exactly that - avoiding paying fees.

 

Prior to this change, if you listed a $150 item with a $5 BIN and a $145 shipping price, you'd only pay final value fees on the $5 - the end price for buyer would be the same, but eBay would loose a large chunk of the FVFs.

 

I had heard rumors that people were doing that sort of silly stuff, but never saw one myself though I spent a lot of time there. How many people actually bought things that way? Anyone here want to own up to having bought something with a $145 shipping fee? Maybe it is just me (it happens often enough), but this seems like one of those obviously crazy exceptions that everyone brings up in a discussion like this, but nobody can produce an example.

 

I never bought one of these auctions - because, as an eBay seller, I thought it was a crappy thing to do. But there were tons of them on eBay back in the day.

 

Agreed, it would have been a crappy way to go about things. I'm still more inclined to think that eBay saw shipping FVFs as another revenue stream rather than being legitimately concerned about a rash of FVF avoidance through $100 shipping charges for a $5 item. Not saying it didn't happen or wasn't tried, but I just can't see that sort of obvious shenanigan significantly impacting their bottom line.

[VintageComics]

Pretty much all online 3rd party marketplaces use some sort of feedback model which, in turn, can lead you to getting kicked off the service if your ratings drop too low. Amazon's marketplace is no different.

 

An accurate, fair feedback system is something entirely different than what eBay has in place. Sorry, but the buyer has the upper hand in all of this.

 

If you offer free shipping, you get an automatic 5 star on the shipping cost DSR.

If you upload tracking info by the end of the next business day, you get an automatic 5 star on the shipping time DSR.

If there's no communication between you & the buyer, you get an automatic 5 star on the communication DSR.

 

I didn't know you got automatic 5 stars as explained above. Is that a relatively new system?

 

If you can't deal with getting anonymous ratings on the service you provide, perhaps you shouldn't be selling anything? Also ... if you run a report on eBay, you can easily see who left you low DSRs.

 

I can handle anonymous ratings when those buyers are fair, but if a buyer agrees to pay a shipping fee that is clearly listed in the auction listing by buying the item and in effect sealing the contract and then leaves a low rating because he didn't like the price he agree to, well that just ain't very fair, is it?

 

We all know that there are plenty of unfair buyers who hide behind the eBay smoke screen and make life difficult for sellers.

 

What sort of report are you talking about? First I'd heard of that too?

 

It's fairly obvious that the buyers filled claims against him - which he lost - and he then didn't refund like he was supposed to. Whether the claims were justified or not are irrelevant - he didn't live up to his obligation as a seller.

 

Yes, but were the items as described?

[mysterio]

Well, in some cases, you can - offer free shipping and you can't get your shipping DSR dinged.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

My last eBay transaction I found out they charged me 10% of the final bid price, and on top of that, a fee for shipping. I could not believe it. eBay did absolutely nothing to procure the shipping - that was all on me. The shipping amount was high because it was being shipped Internationally, and the insurance on the item alone was $20. When I asked them if they were on crack for thinking they could just take money from me without lifting a finger, they quickly refunded my money.

 

Their excuse for taking it is they are trying to discourage shipping profiteering, and I replied, so in cracking down on bad sellers scamming buyers, you lump everyone who ships, which include good sellers, and are turning the tables and starting to profit from your members instead?

 

In essence they are extorting sellers by forcing them to either ship for free, or pay a fee for shipping. So yeah, this is a sore point for me because it's caused everyone to hide the shipping costs in the item, causing all prices to rise, simply because eBay saw it as an opportunity to make more money.

 

even if you give free shipping eBay is still charging 10% of the shipping price in a fee. They just want you to think they aren't.

 

Whether you sell an item at $10 with a $5 shipping charge or sell it at $15 with free shipping, eBay still gets the same fees, 10%. So if you bake the shipping fee into the BIN or asking price eBay still gets their cut. It is just more irritating when they do it out in the open with a direct fee on the shipping charge.

 

I always thought their rationale for tacking a FVF onto the shipping charge was laughable. Allegedly they did it to lower shipping prices to buyers, when it actually forced a lot of sellers, like me, to raise shipping prices to offset the fee. They just wanted another revenue stream and spun one there.

 

You make back the percentage FVF on the shipping amount with the eBay shipping discount. Lots of times I make back 20% with the discount. It's advantageous to use eBay to buy and print your labels.

 

I actually like the way eBay did this. It was a great way to make fee avoidance a non-issue (which is why they did it), and people already playing by the rules come out even. There no need to raise the shipping charge, just use the "over the counter" USPS rate and it all works out.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of this, save for the fact that you have to be a fairly high volume seller to get the 20% discount. I used to sell on eBay a LOT and hardly ever qualified for the discount because the vast majority of my sales were for fairly tiny amounts ($10 and under). Those are the types of sales where the tacked-on FVF on shipping really hurts.

 

My other question is on fee avoidance and exactly what you mean by that. I think you mean passing along the fees to the customers via higher shipping rates, rather than the seller actually avoiding paying fees. If that is the case, name any other business where the seller accepts a lower profit margin with a smile and doesn't raise prices to cover an increase in shipping costs? I'm with you about not gouging customers with unreasonable increases, but simply eating fees for the fun of it is not really a badge of honor in my book.

 

No, it was exactly that - avoiding paying fees.

 

Prior to this change, if you listed a $150 item with a $5 BIN and a $145 shipping price, you'd only pay final value fees on the $5 - the end price for buyer would be the same, but eBay would loose a large chunk of the FVFs.

 

I had heard rumors that people were doing that sort of silly stuff, but never saw one myself though I spent a lot of time there. How many people actually bought things that way? Anyone here want to own up to having bought something with a $145 shipping fee? Maybe it is just me (it happens often enough), but this seems like one of those obviously crazy exceptions that everyone brings up in a discussion like this, but nobody can produce an example.

 

OT: Hi friend

 

A) You're a Canadian who just finished complaining about being gouged through shipping on Amazon, so that may have had something to do with this experience.

 

B) This isn't quite to the magnitude of the example given, though I will admit that it is an example.

 

[seanfingh]

Right, so buyers can leave anonymous, arbitrary and subjective Seller's Ratings and eBay judges a seller's performance based on this criteria.

 

You don't know who left them.

You don't know why they left them.

You can't rectify the situation and if the Buyer is off his rocker and unfair, there's nothing you can do about it.

 

It's Bizarro world.

 

Pretty sure that it could be considered illegal in any business outside of eBay.

 

 

 

You should take a look at Rip-Off Report.com sometime. Completely anonymous trashing of businesses. They vigorously defend lawsuits attempting to find out the real names (or IP addresses) of their anonymous posters.