Explanation of the V on the right edge of comic books

[Hero Restoration]

Since the first wrap is much wider than the centerfold, I can't see any other way this would occur other than the book being trimmed after it is folded.

 

In addition, as Kenny has mentioned, the top and bottom must also be folded before trimming since many book have a "V" shape when opened and flat.

 

What I am not entirely sure of though, is if this was always the case. I have seen bronze books in particular where the back cover left edge is shorter in height than the front cover right edge.

This phenomenon makes me wonder if the top and bottom edge were trimmed while the book was open. or is it just shrinkage and expansion due to the ink ratio from front to back?

[Aman619]

I believe that when the book is guillotine cut, the cut begins on one end and moves upwards. Meaning it's cut with the blade edge on an angle. Now when you cut that way through a pile of paper, the blade meets increasing resistance that causes the beginning of the cut to be straighter but distort as the pages "catch" on the blade, but the end of the cut, the edge ends up with a different angle than at aThe beginning.

 

These huge guillotines power cutters, as strong as they are, still get affected by the wood pulp mass.

 

 

[Randall Dowling]

If what you are saying is the right edge was trimmed before it was folded, then how do comics that display a trapezoidal miscut happen? Both sides of an unfolded comic would have to be miscut identically to match up once folded. Which is impossible.

 

Or comics with offset staples. This had to happen while the book was not completely folded, otherwise the staples would go through the entire book. It was stapled, then incorrectly folded somehow? (I am honestly not 100% sure about how it becomes misfolded poorly enough to offset the staples like we see all the time)

 

Everything I know about the process leads me to believe comics were trimmed after being stapled, then folded.

 

So I believe this timeline that was posted above is not correct.

trim right edge>fold>stitch>trim top and bottom.

 

 

 

Aside from how they were produced, I am always left scratching my head as to why the V effect does not run the entire length of the outer edge.(like it does when you fold 8, or 16 pieces of paper.

 

A comic book that displays the V effect is always constant on the top 2/3rds of the right outer edge. With the bottom third almost always becoming totally flush.

 

You can literally see where it starts to form, and gradually become more pronounced as it nears the top of the book.

 

Grab a stack of SA comics and every one of them will show the V effect starting at, or around the lower half of the book. Getting more pronounced the higher up it goes. With the bottom right edge being mostly flat/flush. Why this happens I have no idea, and is where I ended my quest to figure this all out years ago on the boards.

 

There are obviously constant factors responsible for this happening with such regularity. I just don't know, or understand what those factors might be.

 

Everything you have written here jibes with my original understanding about how comics were put together in the silver age (particularly Marvels). A good example of the offset staples and miswrapped cover that is typical to many copies is Nick Fury 1 (how many of those books look like they cost 2 cents?).

 

The bold part above is the only thing that confuses me. It seems that the trapezoidal cut defect (most common in golden age books?) would only happen if the right side was trimmed last, after folding.

 

And yes, the "v" still remains a mystery to me. I checked a bunch of my books and they do exhibit the phenomena you describe of disappearing toward the bottom of the book.

[MasterChief]

Perhaps folks missed this piece of info from the Cole Schave thread…

 

 

As far as the printing and bindery sequence goes during the Golden Age, the process was detailed in an article written by M.C. "Max" Gaines titled Good Triumphs Over Evil! – More About Comics for the magazine PRINT, A Quarterly Journal of the Graphic Arts, Volume III, No. 3, 1943.

 

Gaines detailed the process clearly and succinctly.

 

No speculation. No conjecture. No plastic rulers. No rabbit holes.

 

Fold, stitch, trim and count the completed [individual] comic magazines to be put in cartons ready for shipping.

 

I suspect the process change little over the course of the 20 plus years following the Gaines article. DiceX, the resident printing subject matter expert, mentioned as much in several of his posts.

 

The cutaway below captures the post printing process scribed by Gaines. A link is provided to the complete article for those worms interested in conducting original research of such cradle-to-grave comic book production matters.

 

 

 

 

 

Print Magazine, A Quarterly Journal of the Graphic Arts, Volume III, No. 3, 1943

 

 

[Ze-man]

If what you are saying is the right edge was trimmed before it was folded, then how do comics that display a trapezoidal miscut happen? Both sides of an unfolded comic would have to be miscut identically to match up once folded. Which is impossible.

 

Or comics with offset staples. This had to happen while the book was not completely folded, otherwise the staples would go through the entire book. It was stapled, then incorrectly folded somehow? (I am honestly not 100% sure about how it becomes misfolded poorly enough to offset the staples like we see all the time)

 

Everything I know about the process leads me to believe comics were trimmed after being stapled, then folded.

 

So I believe this timeline that was posted above is not correct.

trim right edge>fold>stitch>trim top and bottom.

 

 

 

Aside from how they were produced, I am always left scratching my head as to why the V effect does not run the entire length of the outer edge.(like it does when you fold 8, or 16 pieces of paper.

 

A comic book that displays the V effect is always constant on the top 2/3rds of the right outer edge. With the bottom third almost always becoming totally flush.

 

You can literally see where it starts to form, and gradually become more pronounced as it nears the top of the book.

 

Grab a stack of SA comics and every one of them will show the V effect starting at, or around the lower half of the book. Getting more pronounced the higher up it goes. With the bottom right edge being mostly flat/flush. Why this happens I have no idea, and is where I ended my quest to figure this all out years ago on the boards.

 

There are obviously constant factors responsible for this happening with such regularity. I just don't know, or understand what those factors might be.

 

 

The bold part above is the only thing that confuses me. It seems that the trapezoidal cut defect (most common in golden age books?) would only happen if the right side was trimmed last, after folding.

 

Error on my part.

 

I should have said, "trimmed, after being stapled and folded".

[Timely]

Aside from how they were produced, I am always left scratching my head as to why the V effect does not run the entire length of the outer edge.(like it does when you fold 8, or 16 pieces of paper.

 

A comic book that displays the V effect is always constant on the top 2/3rds of the right outer edge. With the bottom third almost always becoming totally flush.

 

You can literally see where it starts to form, and gradually become more pronounced as it nears the top of the book.

 

Grab a stack of SA comics and every one of them will show the V effect starting at, or around the lower half of the book. Getting more pronounced the higher up it goes. With the bottom right edge being mostly flat/flush. Why this happens I have no idea, and is where I ended my quest to figure this all out years ago on the boards.

 

There are obviously constant factors responsible for this happening with such regularity. I just don't know, or understand what those factors might be.

 

One thing I do not think anyone has factored in is speed at which these comics go through the printing process. We keep trying to extrapolate these scenarios based on the comic at a stand-still. Perhaps the fact that this is an assembly line and the comic is moving also has some impact on the final outcome of it's shape.

 

If the comic is being stapled as it is moving (or in flux) that might explain the skewed "V" shape.

[VintageComics]

West,

 

If a comic has a cutting blade 'finger print' across the right edge of a comic then that comic must have been trimmed after it was folded/staple.

 

I'm not saying every comic ever printed was created that way but it sure looks to me like most that I have seen were...especially SA books, which all seem to have some sort of markings across all wraps.

 

 

 

 

[Aman619]

has anyone address staple placement yet? I have noticed that the staples are all over the place on Silver age comics, varying from month to month! I was really surprised to notice this, because, given the assembly line process, I would think that the position of each staple device (while be adjustable from print job to print job) would remain stationery as DC and other comics were steady big customers that probably gave the printer enough work that their machines would stay in "comics size" production mode.

 

any thoughts? or answer on this?

 

To be clear, what Ive noticed is that the space BETWEEN both staples varies by as much as an inch and a half; as well as their position on the comics: centered, closer to bottom or top.

 

and, at some point, they used smaller staples, too. the usual ones were 3/8". but I see 1/4" staples on many books.

 

 

I suppose the answer to the placement of the staples must come down to the printers retooling their presses from comics to magazines and back… but any shop ought to be able to have standards and checks that this kind of thing was done uniformly from job to job… you would think anyway.

 

[rjpb]

Since the first wrap is much wider than the centerfold, I can't see any other way this would occur other than the book being trimmed after it is folded.

 

In addition, as Kenny has mentioned, the top and bottom must also be folded before trimming since many book have a "V" shape when opened and flat.

 

What I am not entirely sure of though, is if this was always the case. I have seen bronze books in particular where the back cover left edge is shorter in height than the front cover right edge.

This phenomenon makes me wonder if the top and bottom edge were trimmed while the book was open. or is it just shrinkage and expansion due to the ink ratio from front to back?

 

Perhaps someone can clarify, but it would seem to me the covers are cut twice, once before being stapled to the book, and a second time after the book is assembled and an entire stack is trimmed. This would account for some covers actually being shorter than the book at one edge or another.

 

I'm also curious about the width of the rolls that get folded into tabloids before the final fold to be stapled. I've only seen siamese pages along the long edge of a comic, indicating the fold itself fell short of the cutting blade for the right edge. I'm wondering if the tops and bottoms of the stack were always or even usually trimmed. The tops of books, particularly with silver age are where they most notable ovehangs are found, and while books sliding in the stack would naturally result in some copies being narrower or trapezoidal in shape, these are always a result of a trim on the right edge, comics from a given publisher are surprisingly consistent in height, it is the width that varies.

 

The Gaines article doesn't really address whether or not the rolls are cut to the correct height for a comic, either before or after the printing process, but prior to the folding.

 

I've also seen GA books that would indicate there may be a difference in the bindery process for some books. Notably, where the back half of the comic ( after the centerfold) is considerably narrower than the front half ( as much as half an inch) This would indicate the book being folded after being trimmed ( at least initially) . I know I've seen at least one Nedor book like this, and seem to recall seeing this phenomenon more than once.

[Timely]

Since the first wrap is much wider than the centerfold, I can't see any other way this would occur other than the book being trimmed after it is folded.

 

In addition, as Kenny has mentioned, the top and bottom must also be folded before trimming since many book have a "V" shape when opened and flat.

 

What I am not entirely sure of though, is if this was always the case. I have seen bronze books in particular where the back cover left edge is shorter in height than the front cover right edge.

This phenomenon makes me wonder if the top and bottom edge were trimmed while the book was open. or is it just shrinkage and expansion due to the ink ratio from front to back?

 

Perhaps someone can clarify, but it would seem to me the covers are cut twice, once before being stapled to the book, and a second time after the book is assembled and an entire stack is trimmed. This would account for some covers actually being shorter than the book at one edge or another.

 

I'm also curious about the width of the rolls that get folded into tabloids before the final fold to be stapled. I've only seen siamese pages along the long edge of a comic, indicating the fold itself fell short of the cutting blade for the right edge. I'm wondering if the tops and bottoms of the stack were always or even usually trimmed. The tops of books, particularly with silver age are where they most notable ovehangs are found, and while books sliding in the stack would naturally result in some copies being narrower or trapezoidal in shape, these are always a result of a trim on the right edge, comics from a given publisher are surprisingly consistent in height, it is the width that varies.

 

The Gaines article doesn't really address whether or not the rolls are cut to the correct height for a comic, either before or after the printing process, but prior to the folding.

 

I've also seen GA books that would indicate there may be a difference in the bindery process for some books. Notably, where the back half of the comic ( after the centerfold) is considerably narrower than the front half ( as much as half an inch) This would indicate the book being folded after being trimmed ( at least initially) . I know I've seen at least one Nedor book like this, and seem to recall seeing this phenomenon more than once.

 

Using this book, clearly we can see two things.

 

1. the top & bottom of the books are trimmed at exactly the same time.

 

2. the top & bottom of the books are trimmed more than once in the printing process, as is evident on the bottom.