Bill Finger’s Family Respond To DC Comics’ ‘All Good With Finger And His Family’

[shadroch]

I'm curious- What was Mr Fingers take on all of this. Did he ever try to get co-creator status or ask for any additional financial benefits?

[Marvelfangirl]

Wow.

 

I didn't know Bob Kane was a real jerk

[jjonahjameson1]

Well, I don't think there's any doubt Bob Kane's character leaves much to be desired.

 

However, would there be a Batman if it weren't for Jerry Robinson? Yes, there would.

 

Would there be a Batman if it weren't for Bill Finger? Yes, there would.

 

Would there be a Batman if it weren't for Bob Kane? I think not.

 

So, no matter how reprehensible one finds Kane's treatment of Finger, Moldoff, et al., at the very least one can say that he certainly provided them with steady employment at a time when jobs were very difficult to come by.

[sd2416]

 

Would there be a Batman if it weren't for Bob Kane? I think not.

 

 

Why do you think that?

[Santos208]

Well, I don't think there's any doubt Bob Kane's character leaves much to be desired.

 

However, would there be a Batman if it weren't for Jerry Robinson? Yes, there would.

 

Would there be a Batman if it weren't for Bill Finger? Yes, there would.

 

Would there be a Batman if it weren't for Bob Kane? I think not.

 

So, no matter how reprehensible one finds Kane's treatment of Finger, Moldoff, et al., at the very least one can say that he certainly provided them with steady employment at a time when jobs were very difficult to come by.

 

 

I disagree with this, well maybe there would be a batman, but he would be some blonde haired guy with a red "suit"

 

Not as dark and mysterious as he currently is but open and happy just judging by his look before becoming what he is now.

 

 

 

Thats what makes Batman badass IMO, the dark outfit and "mysterious" look, plain badass.

[MedicAR]

I'm curious what his granddaughter could do at this point. It'd be great to see him credited, but could she demand compensation? I'm not sure she is saying she wants it or not though… Recognition is a lot different then compensation anyway.

 

It would have been great to be a fly on the wall when all this went down. Same could be said for the early Marvel offices.

 

I almost hope she doesn't demand (monetary) compensation at this point. It devalues her cause for Finger's recognition if she does that. Later, perhaps?

 

For now, she should fight as hard as she possibly can to get Bill Finger's extraordinary achievements recognized and acknowledged by the public.

 

Hearing what I've heard about Bob Kane over the years, he was a narcissistic personality and that contract is probably going to be water-TIGHT. Maybe they can find some sort of loop-hole, though.

 

All the best to her, I hope she makes some progress.

 

Agreed. I think that the family could use the autobiography as solid evidence to get Finger's name on the byline and I would back that 100%. I have absolutely no knowledge of Kane's agreement with DC but based on what I know about him, I would say that he probably made an air-tight deal to keep his name as Batman's creator. I think a possible loophole would be something to the effect of "Batman created by Bob Kane based on concepts created by Bill Finger."

 

The question of money is somewhat muddy, though. I think that the family would be tilting at windmills to go after DC. The most likely way to get any money, if that is their desire, would be to go after the Kane estate, again using the autobiography as the cornerstone of their argument. Don't go after the people the devil hoodwinked, go after the devil's spoils.

 

I need to read that Batman and Me book…..

[Ares]

Well, I don't think there's any doubt Bob Kane's character leaves much to be desired.

 

However, would there be a Batman if it weren't for Jerry Robinson? Yes, there would.

 

Would there be a Batman if it weren't for Bill Finger? Yes, there would.

 

Would there be a Batman if it weren't for Bob Kane? I think not.

 

So, no matter how reprehensible one finds Kane's treatment of Finger, Moldoff, et al., at the very least one can say that he certainly provided them with steady employment at a time when jobs were very difficult to come by.

 

Same could be said about DC with Seigel And Shuster

[ComicConnoisseur]

Wow.

 

I didn't know Bob Kane was a real jerk

 

Here is a cool interview Bob Kane getting interviewed by Stan Lee.

Part three is cool because Stan Lee asks Bob Kane to draw Spider-Man for him.

 

 

 

[MedicAR]

 

The Bob Kane Letter

 

Batman's First Artist discusses the Creation of the Darknight Detective in a 1965 missive to Biljo White, Batmania Editor.

 

September 14, 1965

 

AN OPEN LETTER TO ALL "BATMANIANS" EVERYWHERE

 

 

…The Truth: First of all, let me state that I still draw about ninety percent of all Batman stories. I do all the stories for Batman Bimonthly, and share Detective Comics with Infantino, who draws every other one . Infantino now does all the covers for Batman and Detective Comics. As for inking and lettering, I am not too sure myself who finishes my pencils. However, the results are good, so I don't care…

 

 

 

Did anyone tell the artists drawing the books that Bob Kane was still doing them?

 

[MedicAR]

Unfortunately Bill Finger while alive was a horrible businessman and it would seem to me didn't fight hard enough for the recognition he so deserved.

 

Perception is reality and to Joe Smo public Bob Kane is the sole creator of Batman just as Stan Lee is the sole creator of most of the Marvel Heroes. Why? Because Lee and Kane knew how to market themselves and put themselves in that position of sole creation power. Morally or not that is what they did.

 

Ask the average non-comic book fan of the characters these questions which I just did as I am typing this to my roommate who doesn't read comics but loves the movies, cartoons, and comic book superheroes in general:

 

Kenny do you know who Bill Finger is? No never heard of him

Kenny do you know who Steve Dikto is? Nope

Kenny do you know who Jerry Robinson is? No

Kenny do you know who Jack Kirby is? Name kinda sounds familiar

Kenny do you know who Joe Simon is? no

 

Kenny do you know who Stan Lee is? Yea creator all of those Marvel characters

 

Kenny do you know who Bob Kane is? Yea isn't he the creator of Batman and Joker

 

Kenny do you know who Todd McFarlane is? Yea Spawn guy and owner of that Mark McGwire HR Baseball (Todd is not a fraud but that HR ball is haha)

 

Like I said perception is unfortunately reality with the right or wrong information many times in life

That may be true, but I'm an actual comic fan and had never heard of Bill Finger until today, so clearly he needs more credit.

 

REALLY?!?!?!

 

I don't intend that to be mean spirited, condescending, or ugly in any way. Seriously, I don't. I look at your signature line and see some excellent taste in comics with deep roots in their history. I am genuinely shocked that you would have that taste yet remain unaware. Clearly, fans do need to do more to get the information out there!

[MedicAR]

Some Bob Kane Truths

 

I remember reading this years ago.

 

 

That is quite a hatchet job. Zorro, was a black and white film, so no matter what the live costume may have looked like, in the film it is all black.

While a few of the panels do look like swipes, many of them do so only if you squint real hard and look at it at just the right angle.

I've no dog in the fight, but if I was on a civil jury and only the evidence presented in the above post was introduced, I'm going with Kane.

 

I agree that some of the swipe examples are dubious, but some do seem to be quite blatant copying.

 

Yeah, it seems pretty obvious to me that most of it as lifted.

 

To be fair, though, I can guarantee that no one working in comics n the 30s and 40s ever anticipated what the medium would become. They were creating disposable entertainment that was generally aimed at kids. I seriously doubt any of them would have given any thought to "borrowing" from any other medium or that they would have to expose where they got those ideas decades later.

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

Unfortunately Bill Finger while alive was a horrible businessman and it would seem to me didn't fight hard enough for the recognition he so deserved.

 

Perception is reality and to Joe Smo public Bob Kane is the sole creator of Batman just as Stan Lee is the sole creator of most of the Marvel Heroes. Why? Because Lee and Kane knew how to market themselves and put themselves in that position of sole creation power. Morally or not that is what they did.

 

Ask the average non-comic book fan of the characters these questions which I just did as I am typing this to my roommate who doesn't read comics but loves the movies, cartoons, and comic book superheroes in general:

 

Kenny do you know who Bill Finger is? No never heard of him

Kenny do you know who Steve Dikto is? Nope

Kenny do you know who Jerry Robinson is? No

Kenny do you know who Jack Kirby is? Name kinda sounds familiar

Kenny do you know who Joe Simon is? no

 

Kenny do you know who Stan Lee is? Yea creator all of those Marvel characters

 

Kenny do you know who Bob Kane is? Yea isn't he the creator of Batman and Joker

 

Kenny do you know who Todd McFarlane is? Yea Spawn guy and owner of that Mark McGwire HR Baseball (Todd is not a fraud but that HR ball is haha)

 

Like I said perception is unfortunately reality with the right or wrong information many times in life

 

I am pretty sure if you asked 10 random people off the street who Bob Kane is no one would know. Other then Stan Lee most of the public doesn`t have a clue about the comic book creators.

Sad,but true.

[MedicAR]

Bob Kane had employees, not business partners. He was probably as most people feel a and a horribly self absorbed person, but, legally, he and his family managed to secure his ownership of Batman. His actions after that are obviously based on the position of security his contract afforded him. Its unusual for such people to act very different than he did, regrettably, to his co workers and hired hands.

 

This is a good point. I get the impression, rightly or wrongly, that Kane did business much like Eisner and Iger but on a much smaller scale. Many artists had a hand in Eisner's seminal Spirit strip but it was all under Eisner's name and byline. The difference is that Eisner truly had talent of his own and he eventually admitted that others did the work. He trained many artists and his "Comics and Sequential Art" is still a fantastic reference.

 

Kane just grabbed all that he could and dismissed any contributions of others. I think if he had softened his stance just a little that he would not be the villain he is viewed to be now.

[MedicAR]

Both the Moldoff and Steranko stories read to me more like "what I should have done", than what really happened. (I mean who slaps anyone?) But if Im wrong, more power to both of them for quick thinking!

 

I've only met Steranko once, and that was very much in passing, but I can see him doing it. He just strikes me as a guy that would do such a thing.

[MedicAR]

Well, I don't think there's any doubt Bob Kane's character leaves much to be desired.

 

However, would there be a Batman if it weren't for Jerry Robinson? Yes, there would.

 

Would there be a Batman if it weren't for Bill Finger? Yes, there would.

 

Would there be a Batman if it weren't for Bob Kane? I think not.

 

So, no matter how reprehensible one finds Kane's treatment of Finger, Moldoff, et al., at the very least one can say that he certainly provided them with steady employment at a time when jobs were very difficult to come by.

 

True enough, but without others working behind the scenes, would there be a DC? Or would Batman be remembered as well as Zardi - the eternal man?

[bluechip]

Some Bob Kane Truths

 

I remember reading this years ago.

 

 

That is quite a hatchet job. Zorro, was a black and white film, so no matter what the live costume may have looked like, in the film it is all black.

While a few of the panels do look like swipes, many of them do so only if you squint real hard and look at it at just the right angle.

I've no dog in the fight, but if I was on a civil jury and only the evidence presented in the above post was introduced, I'm going with Kane.

 

I agree that some of the swipe examples are dubious, but some do seem to be quite blatant copying.

 

Yeah, it seems pretty obvious to me that most of it as lifted.

 

To be fair, though, I can guarantee that no one working in comics n the 30s and 40s ever anticipated what the medium would become. They were creating disposable entertainment that was generally aimed at kids. I seriously doubt any of them would have given any thought to "borrowing" from any other medium or that they would have to expose where they got those ideas decades later.

 

That blogger is so obsessed with damning Kane that he fails to see the irony in saying first that Bill Finger wrote the story then moments later making case that the story was plagiarized, after which he says that the story similarities are proof that Kane (and not Finger) was a plagiarist.

 

He also says that Kane unfairly took credit for creating Robin from Bill Finger, who (supposedly said he created Robin.

 

And he says that Kane unfairly nabbed credit from Jerry Robinson who also claimed to have created Robin.

 

But doesn't see the irony in failing to assail either Robinson or Finger for taking credit from each other. Supposing Kane didn't create Robin, Finger and Robinson can't both be right. But the author is happy to embrace that contradiction, so long as you agree that Kane is wrong. And evil.

 

 

[rjrjr]

No wonder him and stan lee got along so well ??bazinga!

 

I have heard a lot of bad press about Stan Lee, especially here on the boards, but, in most of what I've actually seen and heard of him, he gives at least some credit to his collaborators for the big Marvel creations.

 

Stan didn't have a choice. He spent years talking up his bullpen public in the letter pages and in the presss and it would look even more smarmy if he didn't give them some credit.

[jjonahjameson1]

Well, I don't think there's any doubt Bob Kane's character leaves much to be desired.

 

However, would there be a Batman if it weren't for Jerry Robinson? Yes, there would.

 

Would there be a Batman if it weren't for Bill Finger? Yes, there would.

 

Would there be a Batman if it weren't for Bob Kane? I think not.

 

So, no matter how reprehensible one finds Kane's treatment of Finger, Moldoff, et al., at the very least one can say that he certainly provided them with steady employment at a time when jobs were very difficult to come by.

 

 

I disagree with this, well maybe there would be a batman, but he would be some blonde haired guy with a red "suit"

 

Not as dark and mysterious as he currently is but open and happy just judging by his look before becoming what he is now.

 

 

 

Thats what makes Batman badass IMO, the dark outfit and "mysterious" look, plain badass.

 

There would definitely be a Batman, and if Bob Kane did it on his own, it may not have been as dark & mysterious, and not as 'cool', But who's to say that Bob wouldn't have collaborated with someone else to make it as exciting or dare I say, even more exciting than his collaboration with Bill Finger.

 

One only has to see the Lee/Kirby vision for Spiderman vs the later Lee/Ditko colloboration to see how much better it worked out.

[NewWorldOrder]

It is very tough since so many years have passed to honestly know what happened with all these character creations with so many people involved and nothing really documented except from what Stan Lee and Bob Kane did to make sure they made the correct business decisions to get paid and not screwed over like so many artists/creators did. They created characters that are world-wide attractions and got rich from them.

 

Do I think Bill Finger got screwed over, yup he did. He is manly to blame for not sticky up for his creative self in the first place. Kane should have helped him which is a bad form on Kane's part, but isn't the moral of adult life to stick up for yourself and not depend on other people to just hand over money to you?

 

My question to all of you is (same for the who created Spider-man argument with Stan/Ditko) would you be okay with sharing the rights and co-creation credit with someone else is they helped you bring the character to life, but you had the idea first in your head?

 

I still feel Stan Lee and Bob Kane came up with the idea first and had other people such as Ditko, Finger, and Robinson helped the creation along. So in your eyes would that now make them co-creators?

 

I do believe that Kane and Finger mainly created the Joker and not Jerry Robinson.

 

 

[MatterEaterLad]

 

The Bob Kane Letter

 

Batman's First Artist discusses the Creation of the Darknight Detective in a 1965 missive to Biljo White, Batmania Editor.

 

September 14, 1965

 

AN OPEN LETTER TO ALL "BATMANIANS" EVERYWHERE

 

 

…The Truth: First of all, let me state that I still draw about ninety percent of all Batman stories. I do all the stories for Batman Bimonthly, and share Detective Comics with Infantino, who draws every other one . Infantino now does all the covers for Batman and Detective Comics. As for inking and lettering, I am not too sure myself who finishes my pencils. However, the results are good, so I don't care…

 

 

 

Did anyone tell the artists drawing the books that Bob Kane was still doing them?

 

 

Bob Kane aspired (and achieved) the business model of the great newspaper comic strips of the time--which was to create a character and have other artists and writers then do the work.

 

He became a jerk in my eyes when his creations become cultural icons and he kept spinning the tale that it was all him.

 

Plus that bloody ascot.