Saga of the Swamp Thing 21 club - best comic of the early 80s!

[Bronty]

[Mr 9.8]

[Bronty]

 

This started out as a slabbed n' cracked 9.8. Nothing happened to it in between. The next grader didn't like the top staple blowout.

 

 

For those that don't know, basically every single copy has top staple issues. I always thought my childhood copy had a peculiar defect but its there on every single one of my 24 copies, even the 9.8s, to varying degrees. Its kind of a fun way to add to the challenge a little in trying to find copies that aren't blown out too bad.

 

I'm a little confused about what to think in terms of how cgc accounts for the defect. I was under the (probably old and outdated) assumption that they pretty well ignore production defects. Well, I don't think they are completely ignoring it as my 9.8s are the ones that are blown out least badly. Seems like they take the blowout defect with a bit of grace, but at the same time do consider it?

[chrisco37]

Now I have to dig mine out and see if it has that staple issue.

[Bronty]

Sure. The issue is that, on the top staple

 

a) each of the two insertion holes (sounds dirty) on the cover for that staple, especially the very top insertion hole, tend to be overly large and sometimes have a bit of the interior cover or pages being kind of pushed back that way a little. Dunno if I'm explaining that right but basically its a big hole that sometimes shows a bit of brown (there's me being dirty again). (red ellipses - although this is a copy where the defect is quite minor and besides you need to turn the book and look at the spine straight on to really see it)

 

b) immediately to the right of the top staple, there are often impact marks. (you would find these in the black ellipse area or thereabouts).

[seanfingh]

 

I also have this copy - a couple spine tics and the paper loss that bronty was talking about:

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

This started out as a slabbed n' cracked 9.8. Nothing happened to it in between. The next grader didn't like the top staple blowout.

 

 

For those that don't know, basically every single copy has top staple issues. I always thought my childhood copy had a peculiar defect but its there on every single one of my 24 copies, even the 9.8s, to varying degrees. Its kind of a fun way to add to the challenge a little in trying to find copies that aren't blown out too bad.

 

I'm a little confused about what to think in terms of how cgc accounts for the defect. I was under the (probably old and outdated) assumption that they pretty well ignore production defects. Well, I don't think they are completely ignoring it as my 9.8s are the ones that are blown out least badly. Seems like they take the blowout defect with a bit of grace, but at the same time do consider it?

 

It depends on the knowledge of the grader. A lot of inexperienced graders don't know these things (a lot of very experienced graders don't know these things), so it's hard to overlook them if you don't know.

 

For example...did you all know that, on the back covers of most Marvels from Nov 1990-Mar 1991, there is a 3/4" horizontal "crease" on many copies?

 

If you didn't know that, you'd count it off, and none of those books would be 9.8s (or 9.6s.) But they are a production defect, there since they came off the press.

 

Couple of things about ST #21: if the paper is "mis-wrapped" so that the top staple is in white, it tends not to be as bad, and...newsstand copies seem to not have this issue. I suspect it was the heaviness of the ink at that particular place that created this problem.

 

But yes...it's on almost the entire DM print run.

 

That's why I have my 9.6 priced at a 9.8ish selling point. I'm not giving it away.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

b) immediately to the right of the top staple, there are often impact marks. (you would find these in the black ellipse area or thereabouts).

 

Roller marks....they're on almost every copy.

 

I haven't *quite* pinned down why they show up with regularity on certain books, and not on others (Harbinger #1, for example.)

 

I suspect it just has to do with how the presses were set at the time of printing, and possibly the quality of the paper/ink.

[Bronty]

 

b) immediately to the right of the top staple, there are often impact marks. (you would find these in the black ellipse area or thereabouts).

 

Roller marks....they're on almost every copy.

 

I haven't *quite* pinned down why they show up with regularity on certain books, and not on others (Harbinger #1, for example.)

 

I suspect it just has to do with how the presses were set at the time of printing, and possibly the quality of the paper/ink.

 

But they seem to be at or around where the staple tines would have been? Additionally they go into the cover of the paper, which does suggest pressure but not in the way a flat roller would create? (ie it seems to have been created by very localized pressure as opposed to the more generalized pressure created by a roller). I am thinking it might be a mark caused by whatever equipment lined the copy up for stapling, or lined the copy up after stapling, as opposed to just a flat roll over the book?

 

I'm not an expert on the production steps but those are my thoughts.

[Bronty]

 

This started out as a slabbed n' cracked 9.8. Nothing happened to it in between. The next grader didn't like the top staple blowout.

 

 

For those that don't know, basically every single copy has top staple issues. I always thought my childhood copy had a peculiar defect but its there on every single one of my 24 copies, even the 9.8s, to varying degrees. Its kind of a fun way to add to the challenge a little in trying to find copies that aren't blown out too bad.

 

I'm a little confused about what to think in terms of how cgc accounts for the defect. I was under the (probably old and outdated) assumption that they pretty well ignore production defects. Well, I don't think they are completely ignoring it as my 9.8s are the ones that are blown out least badly. Seems like they take the blowout defect with a bit of grace, but at the same time do consider it?

 

It depends on the knowledge of the grader. A lot of inexperienced graders don't know these things (a lot of very experienced graders don't know these things), so it's hard to overlook them if you don't know.

 

For example...did you all know that, on the back covers of most Marvels from Nov 1990-Mar 1991, there is a 3/4" horizontal "crease" on many copies?

 

If you didn't know that, you'd count it off, and none of those books would be 9.8s (or 9.6s.) But they are a production defect, there since they came off the press.

 

Couple of things about ST #21: if the paper is "mis-wrapped" so that the top staple is in white, it tends not to be as bad, and...newsstand copies seem to not have this issue. I suspect it was the heaviness of the ink at that particular place that created this problem.

 

But yes...it's on almost the entire DM print run.

 

That's why I have my 9.6 priced at a 9.8ish selling point. I'm not giving it away.

 

A couple great points here.

 

Didn't know about that 1990 crease, interesting.

 

Agreed that if the staples are in the white, it tends to not be so bad.

 

And that makes sense about the inexperienced graders. I love the book and I never knew this myself until I started to accumulate several. Good thoughts.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I am thinking it might be a mark caused by whatever equipment lined the copy up for stapling, or lined the copy up after stapling, as opposed to just a flat roll over the book?.

 

Sure, definitely could be (and probably is) that. Whatever particular machine in the process makes these marks, they are definitely production.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Another common defect, which most are aware of...several books in he 80's (and earlier) are notorious for printer's creases.

 

Cap #241, for instance...you'll probably not find a DM copy without the horizontal creases in the bottom right quadrant. They likely don't exist.

 

Batman #427 has them, not to that extent, but they exist.

 

The back cover to the Crimson #1 AE variant chromium cover has a notch in every single copy I have seen (and confirmed by others.)

 

Many copies of Spidey #300 have that raggedly cut right edge.

 

Wolverine #35, of course, is famous, but several of the other books from that month (Nam #52, for example) has the exact same problem.

 

All things an inexperienced grader might count off for.

 

And there are doubtless examples I've forgotten, or don't know about altogether.

[jimjum12]

Another common defect, which most are aware of...several books in he 80's (and earlier) are notorious for printer's creases.

 

Cap #241, for instance...you'll probably not find a DM copy without the horizontal creases in the bottom right quadrant. They likely don't exist.

 

Batman #427 has them, not to that extent, but they exist.

 

The back cover to the Crimson #1 AE variant chromium cover has a notch in every single copy I have seen (and confirmed by others.)

 

Many copies of Spidey #300 have that raggedly cut right edge.

 

Wolverine #35, of course, is famous, but several of the other books from that month (Nam #52, for example) has the exact same problem.

 

All things an inexperienced grader might count off for.

 

And there are doubtless examples I've forgotten, or don't know about altogether.

 

..... The Batman 427 that I recently got had the crease......didn't realize it was so prevalent. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Swamp Thing 21

[Bomber-Bob]

 

Couple of things about ST #21: if the paper is "mis-wrapped" so that the top staple is in white, it tends not to be as bad, and...newsstand copies seem to not have this issue. I suspect it was the heaviness of the ink at that particular place that created this problem.

 

But yes...it's on almost the entire DM print run.

 

That's why I have my 9.6 priced at a 9.8ish selling point. I'm not giving it away.

 

My copy is a good example of the above comments where the top staple is in the white. However,

I do see the marks, though they are not that bad. I believe my copy received a 9.6 for some other spine creases and not because of the staple indentations.

 

http://www.myslabbedcomics.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=11800&GSub=890

[Bosco685]

Now I have to dig mine out and see if it has that staple issue.

 

It does. I still have it.

 

[chrisco37]

Now I have to dig mine out and see if it has that staple issue.

 

It does. I still have it.

 

 

Is that a raw copy? I said to Bronty last night that I thought I might have a raw (in addition to my graded). Did I send that to you?

[Bosco685]

Now I have to dig mine out and see if it has that staple issue.

 

It does. I still have it.

 

 

Is that a raw copy? I said to Bronty last night that I thought I might have a raw (in addition to my graded). Did I send that to you?

 

With the greatest of care, thank you very much.

 

[chrisco37]

Now I have to dig mine out and see if it has that staple issue.

 

It does. I still have it.

 

 

Is that a raw copy? I said to Bronty last night that I thought I might have a raw (in addition to my graded). Did I send that to you?

 

With the greatest of care, thank you very much.

 

 

Guess I don't have a raw copy. At least I don't have to go looking for it.

 

Was that when I got the DKR from you? That SOST was/is a nice book.

[Chadwick]

My Canadian news stand copy has some funky staples going on

 

Click for high res:

 

 

[divad]

I 'm a little ticked off that this issue is missing from all three of my ST runs . . .