TOMB OF DRACULA #10 CGC MT 9.9!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FlComicFan]

for 10K you could likely own the original art to the cover and never worry about a better copy devaluing your 9.9

[delekkerste]

for 10K you could likely own the original art to the cover and never worry about a better copy devaluing your 9.9

 

The cover sold for $17,250 in July 2003 on Heritage. But, still a valid point.

[VintageComics]

While I would be the first to say that once you get into 9.8, 9.9 and 10.0 that the differences are so minute as to border on arbitrariness, I'm not sure why this particular copy is generating so much hostility. As far as I can tell from the available scan, the front cover is immaculate--the edges are clean, the corners are sharp and the spine is pristine.

 

You are correct on the book looks perfect. And as a high-grade collector I can say that I do want perfect (or near perfect) looking books.

 

That said, the CGC label game has really caused extreme muliples for extremely LITTLE difference in actual quality of a book. And since many of these high-grade books are resubmits, it is somewhat hard to justify pay double the price for a book because on one day CGC said is was 9.4 then a 9.6, or a 9.6 then a 9.8, or 9.8 then a 9.9, etc. The BOOK HAS NOT CHANGED (unless it was pressed and I'm sure that's not the case with this book), yet the market value as DOUBLED.

But hey, that's the market at this time, so that's the game that's played.

 

Do you think these are the same books? Look at the 9.8 on pedigree with the spine roll and the pages fanned at the top, now look at the 9.9...same miswrap at the bottom as the 9.8 has, but less at the top....can that spine roll be pressed out?

[Hobgoblin]

WOW, CHECK IT OUT ON www.PEDIGREECOMICS.COM

 

ONLY ASKING $10K!!!!!!!!!

 

THE BEST COPY SO FAR

 

If I had $10K, or even roughly $1,000, to spend on anything. I'm sorry to say but a comic book is last on my list. There are many other things that need my attention first, such as a home and my $50K+ student loan debt

 

But I doubt I will EVER in my entire life spend more than $1000 on a single comic book, and that's very doubtful to even happen. My max for anything would probably be around $400-500.

[Mithril Man]

How about if after 15 years or so as a professional in the workforce you have acquired a tidy sum in your 401(k) and/or IRA. Then you glance at your statements and realize you have been drawing on average about 6% over the past 10 years or so.

 

Then a lightning bolt strikes, and you realize you could put about 10% or so of that money in comic books that have been drawing 12 %. Maybe you realize that you know infinitely more about the Silver Age than you know about silver futures or the balance sheet of Lucent. As the Gardner boys over at Motley Fool say, it is much smarter to invest in something you know than something you don't know.

 

And then you realize, hell its pretty damn fun also.

[FFB]

While I would be the first to say that once you get into 9.8, 9.9 and 10.0 that the differences are so minute as to border on arbitrariness, I'm not sure why this particular copy is generating so much hostility. As far as I can tell from the available scan, the front cover is immaculate--the edges are clean, the corners are sharp and the spine is pristine.

 

As to the "miswrap" that people are screaming about, it's relatively small and it's straight, so while this book is not a 9.9 in the QP scale, it's not some abomination either. In any event, a "miswrap" is a manufacturing defect, not a handling defect, so a book wouldn't be downgraded for this. If you take a look at the 9.9 ASM 135 that is on Heritage, put up by Moondog, it's got a "miswrap" too, so CGC is not being inconsistent.

 

If people want to ridicule the price, I can certainly understand that. Or if they want to say that no one should pay that much for a book that has less than 10.0 QP, fair enough. But the overwhelming criticism of this book in this thread is unfounded in my opinion. If you think QP should be factored into CGC's grading, that's a valid argument and should be taken up with Steve & Co. My point is we've all seen clearly overgraded books, and this ain't one of them.

 

But they DO factor QP into grading. That is a fact. There are certain QP flaws that they allow in only certain grades, degree of miswrap being one of them. Does any one have an opinion as to whether grading should be based simply on handling damage and/or aging to the book? Should QP be factored in? I think i can speak for most when i say that most buyers want to know what HIDDEN defects the book has and Centering is clearly not a hidden thing, unless you buy the label and not the book in the holder.

 

Yes, they do factor in QP (especially at the 9.9 and 10.0 levels). Overstreet does as well. It's a nice book and miswraps don't bother me as much as some, but that miswrap is big enough that it should disqualify the book from 9.9 in my opinion, even if the rest of the book is perfect.

[sborock]

Please show me on pages 138 and 139 of the OSGG where it says that a straight thin white line is not allowed.

 

It does say "well centered" and that book IS well centered, no text cut off, no slant to the art, no staples on cover. That book is SMOKING.

[OldGuy]

That book is SMOKING.

 

Apparently so is the seller.

[sfilosa]

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That book is SMOKING.

 

 

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Apparently so is the seller.

 

 

Maybe $10K is too much (for me it's way too much), but someone might jump at the opportunity to own the best (and most likely to remain the best) copy. I would be surprised if the seller didn't discount the book some to make a sale.

[Norrin_Radd]

Maybe $10K is too much (for me it's way too much), but someone might jump at the opportunity to own the best (and most likely to remain the best) copy. I would be surprised if the seller didn't discount the book some to make a sale.

 

If TOD #10 CGC 9.8 = $2K, then a CGC 9.9 = $5K (tops)

 

Especially considering the (what are we calling it now?)... oh yeah, "straight, thin, white line" that this comic has.

[FFB]

Please show me on pages 138 and 139 of the OSGG where it says that a straight thin white line is not allowed.

 

It does say "well centered" and that book IS well centered, no text cut off, no slant to the art, no staples on cover. That book is SMOKING.

 

Steve,

 

I can show you more places in the OGG where the text conflicts with the pictures shown than I think you'd want to hear. This is not your fault, obviously -- it is the internal inconsistency of the guide from a text vs. pictures standpoint. From a CGC standpoint, I can show you hundreds of examples of other CGC graded books where the wear present does not match the text OR pictures of the OGG (how about the JIM#83 CGC 9.0 Diamond Run copy with the 1 inch color breaking crease, or JP's copy of Amazing Spider-Man #1 CGC 9.6 with paper missing from the lower left corner and a small, color-breaking crease in the lower right corner? Since when are color-breaking corner creases allowed in 9.6?).

 

I don't have my OGG handy right now, but when I get home and have access to my copy of the Guide, I'll show you the kind of miswrap that is shown as being allowed in the 9.9 section of the guide. My recollection is that a tiny sliver of miswrap in the lower left corner is shown on one of the 9.9 books in the guide, but there is no book in any of the 9.9 pictures that has a total, top-to-bottom miswrap like this TOD#10 does.

[sborock]

I am not talking about the pictures, I am talking about the text pages and what they state. The pictures actually allow a slight miswrap and that mis-wrap isn't even centered, the cover is on a very slight slant. We can debate the semantics of this all day long, but that book is a CGC 9.9. If a person has a pet peeve with a certain defect allowed in a certain grade, they do not have to buy it, but that does not change the grade, just THEIR opinion of it.

 

We can talk much more about this over that great wine you are bring to the SF forum dinner

[sfilosa]

Since when are color-breaking corner creases allowed in 9.6?).

 

Apparently on a few of my CGC 9.6's.

[FFB]

I am not talking about the pictures, I am talking about the text pages and what they state. The pictures actually allow a slight miswrap and that mis-wrap isn't even centered, the cover is on a very slight slant. We can debate the semantics of this all day long, but that book is a CGC 9.9. If a person has a pet peeve with a certain defect allowed in a certain grade, they do not have to buy it, but that does not change the grade, just THEIR opinion of it.

 

We can talk much more about this over that great wine you are bring to the SF forum dinner

 

What about the other books I mentioned? JIM#83 CGC 9.0 Diamond Run and ASM#1 CGC 9.6 with abraded spine corner and color-breaking corner crease?

[VintageComics]

I think (just my O), that there should be some leeway in allowing the over all appearance of the book having influence on the grade. The OGG is a guide...it's art, not a science. There are grey areas that cannot be measured. Every one passed on the Hulk #181 9.6 white that was the laughing stock of the boards a year or two ago (anyone still got the link?), and i bought that book from Ewert and LOVED it. Never saw such a nice book...ink was thick and rich, amazing gloss, almost perfect structure. Just a mis-wrap to the back. I ended up selling the book to a hi end collector who also loves it. Emailed me several times to thank me. Let the buyer decide whether the book in the holder lines up with the label. I think the book was a steal.

[FFB]

I think (just my O), that there should be some leeway in allowing the over all appearance of the book having influence on the grade. The OGG is a guide...it's art, not a science. There are grey areas that cannot be measured. Every one passed on the Hulk #181 9.6 white that was the laughing stock of the boards a year or two ago (anyone still got the link?), and i bought that book from Ewert and LOVED it. Never saw such a nice book...ink was thick and rich, amazing gloss, almost perfect structure. Just a mis-wrap to the back. I ended up selling the book to a hi end collector who also loves it. Emailed me several times to thank me. Let the buyer decide whether the book in the holder lines up with the label. I think the book was a steal.

 

If anything, I think this debate underscores the need for QP (miswraps, staples dented during manufacture, miscut covers, bindery chips/tears, printing out of register, interior pages not trimmed correctly, etc.) to be scored separately from wear/structural issues. It has never made inherent sense to me that a book that is structurally a 10.0 is somehow a 9.8 because the cover was miswrapped, but that is how the grading system is currently set up. The book looks exactly the same as it did on the newsstand and has suffered no wear whatsoever.

 

Things like centering are scored separately from wear in other hobbies (take baseball cards, for instance). Why not in comic books?

[Foolkiller]

but Scott, shouldn't production defects be scored in the overall quality of the book. If a book is miswrapped, how can it be said to be "perfect" or a 10? It's not... in the case of the 9.9, if the book is structurally perfect in everyway, and the only "defect" is the slight even miswrap, that in my mind is why it can be a 9.9 but not a 10.

 

I think you have to judge the production flaws somewhat in the overall score, and not separately. I think 10.0 Mint has to be judged harsher than the newstand mint standard of old... or at least that was always my impression of the CGC grading criteria.

[FFB]

but Scott, shouldn't production defects be scored in the overall quality of the book. If a book is miswrapped, how can it be said to be "perfect" or a 10? It's not... in the case of the 9.9, if the book is structurally perfect in everyway, and the only "defect" is the slight even miswrap, that in my mind is why it can be a 9.9 but not a 10.

 

I think you have to judge the production flaws somewhat in the overall score, and not separately. I think 10.0 Mint has to be judged harsher than the newstand mint standard of old... or at least that was always my impression of the CGC grading criteria.

 

Right, Brian. My point is that we should separate QP issues from structural issues and assign a separate grade to each. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be factored in under the current system -- they clearly are part of the current "one number/one grade" system and until that changes, they have to be factored in.

[VintageComics]

but Scott, shouldn't production defects be scored in the overall quality of the book. If a book is miswrapped, how can it be said to be "perfect" or a 10? It's not... in the case of the 9.9, if the book is structurally perfect in everyway, and the only "defect" is the slight even miswrap, that in my mind is why it can be a 9.9 but not a 10.

 

I think you have to judge the production flaws somewhat in the overall score, and not separately. I think 10.0 Mint has to be judged harsher than the newstand mint standard of old... or at least that was always my impression of the CGC grading criteria.

 

Would not that be by allowing the wear on the book to determine the grade, and then allow notes to explain production flaws and hidden flaws? If a book is a structural 9.0/9.2 and was down graded for slight tanning of the pages to 8.5 (I have a specific book in mind), why not call it a 9.0/9.2 and label it with slight tanning of pages? I had another book WICKED S.A. that came back in VF range and everyone that saw the book swore up and down it was a NM-. Why? Slight stain. If you assign the technical grade according to how the book has been handled over the years, label the hidden flaws (there is no way to hide a mis-wrap unless your name is Murdock )...then the final selling price is left up to the buyer.

[Foolkiller]

but how would we denote two separate grades? A QP grade and a structure grade? I'd rather stick with the one number system. I can determine on my own the QP of the book, and whether or not I think the book is worth paying the price or not.