FF 45, Dont believe the hype ?:?!!

[Comicopolis]

So what's my CGC 7.5 worth?

 

 

Significantly more than it was 2 years ago, and it isnt going back

 

[chrisco37]

I think 46 is the better book by a long shot. Awesome battle with Black Bolt and the full origin of the Inhumans.

[Vikingreed]

Good point made on villain books.

People go nuts with these, but they seem to be quickly forgotten after the movie hits.

 

Magneto, Doom, Loki, and the Joker (etc.) will always command steep prices, but the second tier guys like Bane, Silver Samurai, Whiplash, etc. seem to fall back down pretty rapidly.

 

Apocalypse may be a different story... He's always been pretty relevant in the X-Universe. But there also may be a gazillion of X-Factor 6's out there.

[SquareChaos]

The importance (or lack thereof) of villains in this context is why things like Suicide Squad, or what Marvel has tried to do with Venom, is somewhat interesting to me.

 

Some of these characters can live in a gray area: Harley Quinn, Deadpool, Venom, Punisher, etc.

[ComicConnoisseur]

I purchased a FF46 in 9.0 a few years back for around $100. But heck the last one on C-Link went for $1,250.

 

I think it might be time to sell that puppy.

 

I think it still has a much higher ceiling to hit.

My opinion, anyways.

 

I believe it,

 

but to say guardians books have maintained value during thier movie->dvd peak to now is a little silly.

 

they've cooled off quite a bit, just like X-Factor 6 in 9.8 cooled off.

 

the guardians books haven't been tough sales but are cooling off.

 

The fact that a book doesnt hold its absolute peak, doesnt mean it went back to where it was. The guardians books will never be anywhere close to where they used to be, nor will FF45/46.

 

I dont think anyone on these boards believe books that see big rises will hold their tops, regardless of the reason for their rises.

 

But the guys sitting there thinking its just "hype" that will "go away once superhero movie fatigue sets in", are equivalent to saying amazon stock is going back to where it was in 1995, now that the dotcom bubble has burst.

 

Mania will die down, overvalued books will come off their highs. But a generational shift in relevance and interest in certain characters has occurred. Bad superhero movies and mania prices will fade away, but what Marvel has done is permanent, and books like Guardians firsts and Inhuman firsts, etc, will never EVER go back to what they were.

This post.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

You folks who use the words "never" and "always" in reference to comics values are playing with fire.

 

Because here's reality: there is no such thing as "never" and "always", especially in markets as capricious and fickle as collectibles.

 

"Amazing Fantasy #15 has NEVER gone down in value!" (Not true.)

 

"Action Comics #1 has ALWAYS been a good investment!" (Not true.)

 

Listen...enjoy the ride while it lasts, because nothing lasts forever, and history always repeats itself. Is AF #15 going to be a $10 book? Probably not. But could it stagnate, or even retreat, for a very long time? Yes, indeed. And could Marvel Super Heroes #18 and FF #45 go back to being $100 books in 9.0? Yes, they could.

 

When you're mostly selling to people who are buying because they want to flip....that's a big, big warning sign.

 

Be careful.

 

[the blob]

the early 90s had this bizarre dynamic of a huge portion of the collector/speculator segment pumping money into new books that were hardly "limited" editions. i terms of a % of dollars spent I am going to have to assume more than what is going into variants today or some hot moderns, which are usually hot because they are fairly limited. it was a ponzi scheme that never made sense to start with when multiple copies of books existed for every collector on the planet. the crash helped drag down vintage stuff that had been lifted as well, at least temporarily, and ebay brought much more material to market (increasing supply), while at the same time increasing liquidity, which was a real problem for collectors pre-ebay. much like the internet bubble/crash dragged down the whole DJI/S&P 500 for a while.

 

 

[CBT]

Yes, indeed. And could Marvel Super Heroes and FF #45 go back to being $100 books in 9.0? Yes, they could.

 

No, even in a full market collapse, the amount of money printed out of thin air since it was a $100 book, is so massive, it cant.

 

Could it nominally go down to an equivalent amount of money to whatever $100 was worth, maybe in a falling tide bottoms out all boats scenario.

 

Action Comics #1 was a $100 book once, could it go back to that? No. Not every scenario is possible just because it can be said with words.

 

The inhumans are now, and will forever be, a bigger part of pop culture than they were prior to being on TV and in movies (coming). That cant be undone. So, its relative position, and its "key"-ness has undergone a permanent change, relative to all other books.

 

That doesnt mean there arent flippers selling to flippers, and the market as whole is always desperately looking for a place to pour speculative money. I agree completely with that. But society and mainstream culture cant unlearn about the characters Marvel has introduced. Kids growing up now in this MCU world, cant go back and relive their childhood. Some changes are permanent.

 

[the blob]

seems to me that the current mania is a little more "pure" in that driving prices up due to a block buster movie at least relates to mainstream acceptance and all that...what happened in the early 90s was heavily driven by the same people who destroyed sports cards as a collectible moving into comics and basically doing to same thing in terms of saturating the market with more product than anyone could ever hope to have find a home.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

+1

 

This isn't the 90's, this is a collector's market that is driven by nostalgia and the internet. The movie success has put comics into the forefront, but comics are just part of a bigger hobby boom that exists now because of the accessibility of community and trade. Go look at other hobbies that are booming because of the internet - sports cards are doing just fine and they died in the 90s as well.

 

How do you know this is a "collector's market that is driven by nostalgia and the internet"...? The Internet has been around as a "public thing" since 1994-1995. In fact, it was the internet that drove the freefall of the back issue industry in 1997-2001, because collectors were able, for the first time on a very large scale, able to cut out the dealer middlemen and sell to one another.

 

Back then, not only were comics out of vogue, but the only listings on eBay (by far, the single most important factor in the internet market) were auctions, where people listed everything as auctions, usually for a pittance, and they sold for what they sold for.

 

Everything except the most boutique ultra high grade items fell dramatically in value off their 1993 highs. Fantasy #15 in VG for $800? Done. FF #1 in VG for $700? Done. TMNT #1 in 9.2-ish condition for $66? Done. ASM #129 in NM-ish condition for $150? Done. Hulk #181 in NM-ish condition for $300? Done.

 

It was so bad that OVERSTREET slashed values across the board between the 1997 and 1998 guide. Go ahead, pick the two up and compare the values that AREN'T "Near Mint."

 

Now, eBay is the exact opposite: actual auctions are quite rare, and the place is stuffed to the gills with everything at "retail prices", because everyone has now become a savvy dealer.

 

Have we all become fools? Could be. Just make sure you're not the greater one. When the music stops, you don't want to be left holding the now-frozen potato.

 

[RCheli]

My biggest issue with the Inhumans becoming super-popular with the non-comic collecting world (which is what is driving this spike in value) is that there is no character that people are going to embrace.

 

Medusa? Gorgon? Karnak? They're cool, but I don't see people really getting into them.

 

Black Bolt is the most obviously popular, but... he doesn't talk. He doesn't have a catch phrase because he doesn't say anything. He's stoic.

 

This is the single greatest reason why certain super heroes are more popular than others. Batman's personality is better than Superman's. Spider-Man is more engaging than Daredevil. Wolverine more than Cyclops. And so on.

[SquareChaos]

My biggest issue with the Inhumans becoming super-popular with the non-comic collecting world (which is what is driving this spike in value) is that there is no character that people are going to embrace.

 

Medusa? Gorgon? Karnak? They're cool, but I don't see people really getting into them.

 

Black Bolt is the most obviously popular, but... he doesn't talk. He doesn't have a catch phrase because he doesn't say anything. He's stoic.

 

This is the single greatest reason why certain super heroes are more popular than others. Batman's personality is better than Superman's. Spider-Man is more engaging than Daredevil. Wolverine more than Cyclops. And so on.

 

The Inhumans concept can translate to the screen just fine, it doesn't necessarily have to be the Inhumans we (currently) see in the comics. I think that is the point - they can't have their mutants, so they want a stand in.

 

Black Bolt could work as a cool, distant figure that you see every now and then - he could be used very dramatically, but you're right, no way the character, as-is, can carry a film.

[RockMyAmadeus]

the early 90s had this bizarre dynamic of a huge portion of the collector/speculator segment pumping money into new books that were hardly "limited" editions. i terms of a % of dollars spent I am going to have to assume more than what is going into variants today or some hot moderns, which are usually hot because they are fairly limited. it was a ponzi scheme that never made sense to start with when multiple copies of books existed for every collector on the planet. the crash helped drag down vintage stuff that had been lifted as well, at least temporarily, and ebay brought much more material to market (increasing supply), while at the same time increasing liquidity, which was a real problem for collectors pre-ebay. much like the internet bubble/crash dragged down the whole DJI/S&P 500 for a while.

 

 

But that implies that the back issue market was collateral damage to the speculator crash. It wasn't. The speculator fever absolutely fueled the back issue market, and was not at all confined to just new issues. Yes, new issue speculation comprised the vast majority of new money into the market from 1990-1993, but it also drove the back issue market to craziness, especially concerning "hot new books" that were related to back issue characters, like Ghost Rider, Thanos, Guardians of the Galaxy (yes, folks, this ain't the first time MSH #18 was a sought after book), Silver Sable, Dethlok, etc.

 

In 1987, there were only four Silver Age books over $1,000 in NM condition, and 99% of them were $100 or under. Aquaman #1 was a $45 book. Cap #100 was $9. TOS #58 was $7. Avengers #1 was $400, and #4 was $150. House of Mystery #143 was $2.

 

A scant six years later, all of those books were hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars.

 

And we aren't even beginning to discuss the very real problem of people who paid premiums for undisclosed restored books. Many, many examples exist of people who STILL haven't recovered from that, 20 years after the fact.

[thunsicker]

My biggest issue with the Inhumans becoming super-popular with the non-comic collecting world (which is what is driving this spike in value) is that there is no character that people are going to embrace.

 

Medusa? Gorgon? Karnak? They're cool, but I don't see people really getting into them.

 

Black Bolt is the most obviously popular, but... he doesn't talk. He doesn't have a catch phrase because he doesn't say anything. He's stoic.

 

This is the single greatest reason why certain super heroes are more popular than others. Batman's personality is better than Superman's. Spider-Man is more engaging than Daredevil. Wolverine more than Cyclops. And so on.

 

The Inhumans concept can translate to the screen just fine, it doesn't necessarily have to be the Inhumans we (currently) see in the comics. I think that is the point - they can't have their mutants, so they want a stand in.

 

Black Bolt could work as a cool, distant figure that you see every now and then - he could be used very dramatically, but you're right, no way the character, as-is, can carry a film.

 

Of course this assumes the MCU Black Bolt follows the 616 Black Bolt in his inability to talk.

[Buzzetta]

I can't believe we went five pages without this being posted yet...

 

Until now...

 

 

 

[SquareChaos]

My biggest issue with the Inhumans becoming super-popular with the non-comic collecting world (which is what is driving this spike in value) is that there is no character that people are going to embrace.

 

Medusa? Gorgon? Karnak? They're cool, but I don't see people really getting into them.

 

Black Bolt is the most obviously popular, but... he doesn't talk. He doesn't have a catch phrase because he doesn't say anything. He's stoic.

 

This is the single greatest reason why certain super heroes are more popular than others. Batman's personality is better than Superman's. Spider-Man is more engaging than Daredevil. Wolverine more than Cyclops. And so on.

 

The Inhumans concept can translate to the screen just fine, it doesn't necessarily have to be the Inhumans we (currently) see in the comics. I think that is the point - they can't have their mutants, so they want a stand in.

 

Black Bolt could work as a cool, distant figure that you see every now and then - he could be used very dramatically, but you're right, no way the character, as-is, can carry a film.

 

Of course this assumes the MCU Black Bolt follows the 616 Black Bolt in his inability to talk.

 

Yep, that is why I tossed "as-is" in there.

 

Personally, I think they should get that guy from the old micro machines commercials to play BB, give him a nice rapid fire delivery and see how many old school, hardcore fans die of nerd rage!

[KPR Comics]

If Black Box can make it, Black Bolt has a chance.

 

[RCheli]

But if the Inhumans are too far removed from their comic book counterparts, then there isn't really that much that holds them together.

 

Look at Bullseye, for example. DD #131 should be significantly more valuable due to him being the villain for the movie, but it he wasn't recognizable. The FF are going to have the same problem. The movie and comic have no synergy.

[SquareChaos]

But if the Inhumans are too far removed from their comic book counterparts, then there isn't really that much that holds them together.

 

Look at Bullseye, for example. DD #131 should be significantly more valuable due to him being the villain for the movie, but it he wasn't recognizable. The FF are going to have the same problem. The movie and comic have no synergy.

 

Well, I think the Bullseye example can fall by the wayside if what was said earlier is considered true... he's just a villain after all.

 

[vaillant]

When you're mostly selling to people who are buying because they want to flip....that's a big, big warning sign.

 

RMA has a very valid point here – also: I can’t really see why a person who gets passionate about one or two movies should become so interested to "have" first appearance books. Interest and affection are not things that you artificially create, they come from an awareness which is acquired by getting to know the characters and their history.

 

Even sticking to Marvel alone, in the majority of cases they’ve de facto cut the bridges with the characters (Civil War is a good example), and continued to do so. Who would want to own, say, a Fantastic Four #45 when what they are doing with the Inhumans may largely have very little to do with what the Inhumans have been along the Marvel age?

 

I see how an accidental moviegoer, or children (these movies are mostly not for children, anyway) can get interested in movies and then discover a long tradition and history of a character, get passionate about them and then become readers and collectors, but unless there is some looking back, and consistency in the development of the characters, this is not a market destined to last.

Do you realize Disney actually "killed" Disney comics in your country though the 1960s/70s? This did not happen elsewhere, but when there is not continuity and sense, and the companies are only seeing short-term income, well, that is just bad.