Valiant: Book of Death & Legend of the Geomancer

[valiantman]

I am the company's core audience. And the way they've gone about marketing the VEI line from day one has alienated me. It's not a surprise the print runs are hovering around 12k or less.

For publishers with 4% of the market or less (Diamond's small publisher definition), Valiant regularly has the highest print run per book... and easily the highest among small publishers for non-licensed books.

 

Dynamite, BOOM, Dark Horse... regularly average 6K or less.

 

Let's look at March 2015

 

Dynamite released 28 comics, and 9 made the Top 300.

Dark Horse released 27 comics, and 18 made the Top 300.

BOOM released 40 comics, and 12 made the Top 300.

 

Valiant released 8 comics, and 8 made the Top 300.

 

We can stop comparing Valiant to Marvel, DC, and Image... those publishers have 80% of the market.

 

Valiant has 1%. But it has 8 out of 8 for making the Top 300.

Compare that to Valiant's actual competitors and suddenly Valiant is the only small publisher not wasting half their output.

[CKB]

And then there's folks like me. VEI lost me with the 500 print-run Shadowman variant -- from that day forward it was virtually impossible for a fan to be a completist.

.

 

Which one would this be?

 

"Shadowman Black"

 

http://www.valiantdatabase.com/books/257-shadowman-1-patrick-zircher

 

I believe it was given out to retailers at a retailer convention. Came in a slipcase, but still very hard to find a 9.8 candidate.

 

[rjrjr]

I am the company's core audience. And the way they've gone about marketing the VEI line from day one has alienated me. It's not a surprise the print runs are hovering around 12k or less.

For publishers with 4% of the market or less (Diamond's small publisher definition), Valiant regularly has the highest print run per book... and easily the highest among small publishers for non-licensed books.

 

Dynamite, BOOM, Dark Horse... regularly average 6K or less.

 

Let's look at March 2015

 

Dynamite released 28 comics, and 9 made the Top 300.

Dark Horse released 27 comics, and 18 made the Top 300.

BOOM released 40 comics, and 12 made the Top 300.

 

Valiant released 8 comics, and 8 made the Top 300.

 

We can stop comparing Valiant to Marvel, DC, and Image... those publishers have 80% of the market.

 

Valiant has 1%. But it has 8 out of 8 for making the Top 300.

Compare that to Valiant's actual competitors and suddenly Valiant is the only small publisher not wasting half their output.

 

What about the previous months? You know not every Valiant comic has been a top 300 comic. Quantum and Woody and Dr. Mirage minis saw to that. Now they are going to try the push the "cutesy" Bloodsquirt which has limited appeal written all over it. The goat didn't work, so now they are moving onto something else. And they are going to do another crossover this summer after last year's crossover saw less than stellar numbers and probably helped quicken the loss of readers. Maybe with "Death" in the title, it will be different since marketing shows death sells.

 

Over the years, we saw Valiant's averages fall to the all time low they are at. I have no doubt the movie speculation will help them stop the bleeding and maybe even reverse the trend. The reliable 10,000 dropped to the reliable 9,000, then 8,000, then 7,000. But, it won't be the actual comics that will reverse this trend, but the speculation surrounding the new movies.

 

Problem as I see it, too many variants and nothing to differentiate themselves from other publishers. The stories are no better than many, many other superhero stories being published today. Valiant in the late 80s, early 90s stood out from the crowd with a house style, stories with an edge, and a time spanning offering that invited a reader to immerse themselves in the mythology. Valiant today is just another publisher in the crowd.

[UltraMaximus]

^This man has not read the new RAI.

[rjrjr]

^This man has not read the new RAI.

 

You are correct. But neither have a lot of comic readers.

 

There are lots of great comics that go unnoticed by the masses. Glad to hear Valiant actually published one. (thumbs u

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

I am the company's core audience. And the way they've gone about marketing the VEI line from day one has alienated me. It's not a surprise the print runs are hovering around 12k or less.

For publishers with 4% of the market or less (Diamond's small publisher definition), Valiant regularly has the highest print run per book... and easily the highest among small publishers for non-licensed books.

 

Dynamite, BOOM, Dark Horse... regularly average 6K or less.

 

Let's look at March 2015

 

Dynamite released 28 comics, and 9 made the Top 300.

Dark Horse released 27 comics, and 18 made the Top 300.

BOOM released 40 comics, and 12 made the Top 300.

 

Valiant released 8 comics, and 8 made the Top 300.

 

We can stop comparing Valiant to Marvel, DC, and Image... those publishers have 80% of the market.

 

Valiant has 1%. But it has 8 out of 8 for making the Top 300.

Compare that to Valiant's actual competitors and suddenly Valiant is the only small publisher not wasting half their output.

 

What about the previous months? You know not every Valiant comic has been a top 300 comic. Quantum and Woody and Dr. Mirage minis saw to that. Now they are going to try the push the "cutesy" Bloodsquirt which has limited appeal written all over it. The goat didn't work, so now they are moving onto something else. And they are going to do another crossover this summer after last year's crossover saw less than stellar numbers and probably helped quicken the loss of readers. Maybe with "Death" in the title, it will be different since marketing shows death sells.

 

Over the years, we saw Valiant's averages fall to the all time low they are at. I have no doubt the movie speculation will help them stop the bleeding and maybe even reverse the trend. The reliable 10,000 dropped to the reliable 9,000, then 8,000, then 7,000. But, it won't be the actual comics that will reverse this trend, but the speculation surrounding the new movies.

 

Problem as I see it, too many variants and nothing to differentiate themselves from other publishers. The stories are no better than many, many other superhero stories being published today. Valiant in the late 80s, early 90s stood out from the crowd with a house style, stories with an edge, and a time spanning offering that invited a reader to immerse themselves in the mythology. Valiant today is just another publisher in the crowd.

I disagree with your point in bold. Most small publishers don't have a cohesive shared universe. Dark Horse is probably the only one that is putting out one on a consistent schedule that's a decent quality. Valiant is offering a viable alternative to the unmanageable sprawl of the Marvel and DC universes. (When they're not making it especially difficult to obtain a book that you might want to read inexpensively and legally, that is.)

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

Just wondering who is actually going to be purchasing this book. For those that are on board, have you arranged a copy yet? And if so, at what price?

[valiantman]

^This man has not read the new RAI.

 

You are correct. But neither have a lot of comic readers.

 

There are lots of great comics that go unnoticed by the masses. Glad to hear Valiant actually published one. (thumbs u

One?

 

Try checking the Awards and Nominations list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valiant_Comics ...for three years of publishing.

 

It seems like you're saying "I don't read Valiant because they can't be worth reading because more people like me aren't reading them."

 

[rjrjr]

^This man has not read the new RAI.

 

You are correct. But neither have a lot of comic readers.

 

There are lots of great comics that go unnoticed by the masses. Glad to hear Valiant actually published one. (thumbs u

One?

 

Try checking the Awards and Nominations list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valiant_Comics ...for three years of publishing.

 

It seems like you're saying "I don't read Valiant because they can't be worth reading because more people like me aren't reading them."

 

I read the first 1.5 years of new Valiant's output. Outside of the frustration of hunting for some of the variants, I also found them... pedestrian. There is nothing in that first 1.5 year of reading that stands out to me as great storytelling. They read like the same decompressed stories that I can find at other publishers. X-O Manowar was the most disappointing of all. I loved the original X-O Manowar but this new take, while beautiful to look at, just didn't click with me. But then again, maybe it was because it read like the first 6 issues of Ultimate Spider-Man.

 

I quit reading in the middle of Harbinger Wars. I realized I was buying them out of nostalgia for the original Valiant and not because I was enjoying them. Since I wasn't able to complete any of the titles, it was an easy decision to stop buying and reading.

[rjrjr]

^This man has not read the new RAI.

 

You are correct. But neither have a lot of comic readers.

 

There are lots of great comics that go unnoticed by the masses. Glad to hear Valiant actually published one. (thumbs u

One?

 

Try checking the Awards and Nominations list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valiant_Comics ...for three years of publishing.

 

It seems like you're saying "I don't read Valiant because they can't be worth reading because more people like me aren't reading them."

 

Forgot to add one thing, it sounds like the only thing people care about is the fact Valiant has a bunch of awards and their average per title is higher than other companies. "Try these guys out, their average per title is higher than their competitors who are also less than 5% of the market" isn't a compelling reason to plop down $4 for a comic. This is all marketing, no different than the reprints Valiant is pre-publishing so they can generate a new press release. What about the actual stories? Does anyone talk about those? Rarely. But publish a hard to find variant and that will generate a multi-page discussion on a forum.

 

I give kudos to Marvel, DC, and Image for this. At least people talk about the actual stories, not just the variants they are pumping out. But then there is a reason they are the top publishers and everyone else are wanna bes.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

^This man has not read the new RAI.

 

You are correct. But neither have a lot of comic readers.

 

There are lots of great comics that go unnoticed by the masses. Glad to hear Valiant actually published one. (thumbs u

One?

 

Try checking the Awards and Nominations list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valiant_Comics ...for three years of publishing.

 

It seems like you're saying "I don't read Valiant because they can't be worth reading because more people like me aren't reading them."

 

Forgot to add one thing, it sounds like the only thing people care about is the fact Valiant has a bunch of awards and their average per title is higher than other companies. "Try these guys out, their average per title is higher than their competitors who are also less than 5% of the market" isn't a compelling reason to plop down $4 for a comic. This is all marketing, no different than the reprints Valiant is pre-publishing so they can generate a new press release. What about the actual stories? Does anyone talk about those? Rarely. But publish a hard to find variant and that will generate a multi-page discussion on a forum.

 

I give kudos to Marvel, DC, and Image for this. At least people talk about the actual stories, not just the variants they are pumping out. But then there is a reason they are the top publishers and everyone else are wanna bes.

FVL's Archer & Armstrong is seriously awesome. That's one of the reasons I'm not liking this promotion. I'll try pretty much anything he writes.

[Gatsby77]

I am the company's core audience. And the way they've gone about marketing the VEI line from day one has alienated me. It's not a surprise the print runs are hovering around 12k or less.

For publishers with 4% of the market or less (Diamond's small publisher definition), Valiant regularly has the highest print run per book... and easily the highest among small publishers for non-licensed books.

 

Dynamite, BOOM, Dark Horse... regularly average 6K or less.

 

Let's look at March 2015

 

Dynamite released 28 comics, and 9 made the Top 300.

Dark Horse released 27 comics, and 18 made the Top 300.

BOOM released 40 comics, and 12 made the Top 300.

 

Valiant released 8 comics, and 8 made the Top 300.

 

We can stop comparing Valiant to Marvel, DC, and Image... those publishers have 80% of the market.

 

Valiant has 1%. But it has 8 out of 8 for making the Top 300.

Compare that to Valiant's actual competitors and suddenly Valiant is the only small publisher not wasting half their output.

 

Hmm...

 

First, seems I was wrong. The average Valiant title is actually selling around 7k per month, not 11k. And that's with the huge number of variants.

 

Second, Valiant may have 8 titles in the top 300, but they're clustered at the bottom.

 

Here's a look at the March independents in the Diamond top 200 list:

 

Valiant: 2

Dynamite: 2

Boom: 3

Dark Horse 7

 

And lest we forget IDW, which had 13 comics in the top 200 in March and -- it so happens -- the number 1 book for February. Orphan Black # 1 not only beat all of Marvel & DC -- it was one of the highest selling books of the last 15 years.

[valiantman]

I am the company's core audience. And the way they've gone about marketing the VEI line from day one has alienated me. It's not a surprise the print runs are hovering around 12k or less.

For publishers with 4% of the market or less (Diamond's small publisher definition), Valiant regularly has the highest print run per book... and easily the highest among small publishers for non-licensed books.

 

Dynamite, BOOM, Dark Horse... regularly average 6K or less.

 

Let's look at March 2015

 

Dynamite released 28 comics, and 9 made the Top 300.

Dark Horse released 27 comics, and 18 made the Top 300.

BOOM released 40 comics, and 12 made the Top 300.

 

Valiant released 8 comics, and 8 made the Top 300.

 

We can stop comparing Valiant to Marvel, DC, and Image... those publishers have 80% of the market.

 

Valiant has 1%. But it has 8 out of 8 for making the Top 300.

Compare that to Valiant's actual competitors and suddenly Valiant is the only small publisher not wasting half their output.

 

Hmm...

 

First, seems I was wrong. The average Valiant title is actually selling around 7k per month, not 11k. And that's with the huge number of variants.

 

Second, Valiant may have 8 titles in the top 300, but they're clustered at the bottom.

 

Here's a look at the March independents in the Diamond top 200 list:

 

Valiant: 2

Dynamite: 2

Boom: 3

Dark Horse 7

 

And lest we forget IDW, which had 13 comics in the top 200 in March and -- it so happens -- the number 1 book for February. Orphan Black # 1 not only beat all of Marvel & DC -- it was one of the highest selling books of the last 15 years.

Since there is still no existing movies/television/toys for Valiant, it's safe to say that monthly sales are not driven by movies/television/toys.

 

How many of the Dynamite 2, Boom 3, Dark Horse 7, and IDW 13 are licensed properties well known for media?

 

My guess would be... pretty much all of them. Would it really matter who the publisher is?

[valiantman]

What about the actual stories? Does anyone talk about those? Rarely. But publish a hard to find variant and that will generate a multi-page discussion on a forum.

 

I give kudos to Marvel, DC, and Image for this. At least people talk about the actual stories, not just the variants they are pumping out. But then there is a reason they are the top publishers and everyone else are wanna bes.

Every single book is discussed on the ValiantFans.com board. The reason you don't see people talking about Valiant all over other sites is that fans find each other at a specific website.

 

Every single book is discussed on multiple podcasts by Valiant fans.

 

When it comes to Valiant, right now people are either "Valiant 4 Life" or "don't read it".

There aren't many people who dabble.

 

Marvel and DC are ketchup and mustard. Valiant is sriracha.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

I am the company's core audience. And the way they've gone about marketing the VEI line from day one has alienated me. It's not a surprise the print runs are hovering around 12k or less.

For publishers with 4% of the market or less (Diamond's small publisher definition), Valiant regularly has the highest print run per book... and easily the highest among small publishers for non-licensed books.

 

Dynamite, BOOM, Dark Horse... regularly average 6K or less.

 

Let's look at March 2015

 

Dynamite released 28 comics, and 9 made the Top 300.

Dark Horse released 27 comics, and 18 made the Top 300.

BOOM released 40 comics, and 12 made the Top 300.

 

Valiant released 8 comics, and 8 made the Top 300.

 

We can stop comparing Valiant to Marvel, DC, and Image... those publishers have 80% of the market.

 

Valiant has 1%. But it has 8 out of 8 for making the Top 300.

Compare that to Valiant's actual competitors and suddenly Valiant is the only small publisher not wasting half their output.

 

Hmm...

 

First, seems I was wrong. The average Valiant title is actually selling around 7k per month, not 11k. And that's with the huge number of variants.

 

Second, Valiant may have 8 titles in the top 300, but they're clustered at the bottom.

 

Here's a look at the March independents in the Diamond top 200 list:

 

Valiant: 2

Dynamite: 2

Boom: 3

Dark Horse 7

 

And lest we forget IDW, which had 13 comics in the top 200 in March and -- it so happens -- the number 1 book for February. Orphan Black # 1 not only beat all of Marvel & DC -- it was one of the highest selling books of the last 15 years.

Orphan Black was in a Loot Crate. That's the main reason for those numbers.

[valiantman]

And lest we forget IDW, which had 13 comics in the top 200 in March and -- it so happens -- the number 1 book for February. Orphan Black # 1 not only beat all of Marvel & DC -- it was one of the highest selling books of the last 15 years.

Orphan Black was in a Loot Crate. That's the main reason for those numbers.

But would it matter who is publishing it? Orphan Black, Transformers, GI Joe, TMNT, Adventure Time, My Little Pony --- publish them as Nabisco Comics and they'd sell the same.

 

Transformers sold 10,600 copies in March. A movie franchise that has made billions, a toy collected for 30 years by pretty much everyone. 10,600 copies.

Ninjak is a title from 22 years ago that was dead for 17 years. 24,000 copies. Of course Ninjak will fall for issue #2, and it will settle around 7,000 copies... but X-O #34 is 70% of Transformers #39. Trans-freakin'-formers... household name, household toy. Either people aren't reading Transformers or they are reading X-O, without any movies or toys.

[Gatsby77]

Not sure what a "loot crate" is, but 500k copies of a comic, in this day and age, puts it at among the top 10 print runs since the '90s.

[valiantman]

Not sure what a "loot crate" is, but 500k copies of a comic, in this day and age, puts it at among the top 10 print runs since the '90s.

http://blog.comichron.com/2014/11/october-2014-comics-estimates-online.html

http://blog.comichron.com/2015/03/loot-crate-charged-orphan-black-gives.html

Orphan Black numbers include more than 350,000 copies from Loot Crate

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2015/2015-02.html

 

Orphan Black #2 sold 10,600 copies (with a hit TV show in its third season)... so that's a 98% drop for #2 if you want to keep counting the Loot Crate order for #1... which would probably make Orphan Black the largest #2 drop of all time, a sales record IDW probably doesn't want.

 

Maybe if Valiant ever has 30 years of toys and billions of box office dollars or a hit TV show in its third season, Valiant might get up to 10,600 copies like Transformers and Orphan Black.

 

Unfortunately, Valiant has none of that and they "only" sell 70% of that number.

[sonicdan]

<-------"Valiant 4 Life"

[UltraMaximus]

In Transformers defense, their fan base is dedicated, and they have 2 ongoing books with good writers, a current crossover with a 3rd ongoing just starting called Combiner Wars (speaks for itself if you know Transformers) and the More than Meets the Eye title is still the best written comic I have read to date. Says something when not only do you have to re=read the book a few times, but there is so much dialogue that it takes an hour to read and it all works for an adult outlook on an old favorite. And why I started reading Rai again, because it was re-imaged for an adult that read Rai as a teenager, like me. New Concepts like reimaged BSG on tv.

 

I think Valiant will have more staying power now this go around.