Valiant: Book of Death & Legend of the Geomancer

[rjrjr]

What about the actual stories? Does anyone talk about those? Rarely. But publish a hard to find variant and that will generate a multi-page discussion on a forum.

 

I give kudos to Marvel, DC, and Image for this. At least people talk about the actual stories, not just the variants they are pumping out. But then there is a reason they are the top publishers and everyone else are wanna bes.

Every single book is discussed on the ValiantFans.com board. The reason you don't see people talking about Valiant all over other sites is that fans find each other at a specific website.

 

Every single book is discussed on multiple podcasts by Valiant fans.

 

When it comes to Valiant, right now people are either "Valiant 4 Life" or "don't read it".

There aren't many people who dabble.

 

Marvel and DC are ketchup and mustard. Valiant is sriracha.

 

Okay. I use to visit ValiantFans.com regularly. Cool site. (Your site if I'm not mistaken.)

 

Sorry, didn't mean to be so negative here. I hope Valiant does find its footing and the fans are satisfied. I don't think making an entire mini-series an incentive is the correct direction. They already alienated potential fans with all the incentive variants they pumped out.

[valiantman]

In Transformers defense, their fan base is dedicated, and they have 2 ongoing books with good writers, a current crossover with a 3rd ongoing just starting called Combiner Wars (speaks for itself if you know Transformers) and the More than Meets the Eye title is still the best written comic I have read to date. Says something when not only do you have to re=read the book a few times, but there is so much dialogue that it takes an hour to read and it all works for an adult outlook on an old favorite. And why I started reading Rai again, because it was re-imaged for an adult that read Rai as a teenager, like me. New Concepts like reimaged BSG on tv.

 

I think Valiant will have more staying power now this go around.

 

Right --- I'm not saying Transformers aren't good comics. I'm saying that holding Valiant to some expectation of print runs where 7,000 is too low is not fair when Transformers has billions in box office and three decades of toys and isn't averaging 11,000.

Is Valiant failing for not having 11,000, or are they succeeding beyond expectations for having 70% of the print run of a major property like Transformers?

(Or... are they both failing?)

 

[valiantman]

What about the actual stories? Does anyone talk about those? Rarely. But publish a hard to find variant and that will generate a multi-page discussion on a forum.

 

I give kudos to Marvel, DC, and Image for this. At least people talk about the actual stories, not just the variants they are pumping out. But then there is a reason they are the top publishers and everyone else are wanna bes.

Every single book is discussed on the ValiantFans.com board. The reason you don't see people talking about Valiant all over other sites is that fans find each other at a specific website.

 

Every single book is discussed on multiple podcasts by Valiant fans.

 

When it comes to Valiant, right now people are either "Valiant 4 Life" or "don't read it".

There aren't many people who dabble.

 

Marvel and DC are ketchup and mustard. Valiant is sriracha.

 

Okay. I use to visit ValiantFans.com regularly. Cool site. (Your site if I'm not mistaken.)

 

Sorry, didn't mean to be so negative here. I hope Valiant does find its footing and the fans are satisfied. I don't think making an entire mini-series an incentive is the correct direction. They already alienated potential fans with all the incentive variants they pumped out.

It's definitely worth debating whether Valiant's incentive-only storyline is a good move... but it's not like fans won't know what happens in the books. The internet puts full reviews online same day... not to mention illegal images. Legally, and for free, the text-based discussion about the book will put the information out there whether you own the book or not. Does anyone need help figuring out what happens in Batman #40... even if they don't own a copy?

 

When Valiant first got popular, there weren't enough to go around, so pretty much every early book was an "exclusive" that alienated potential fans. I wanted to read Harbinger #1-#9, but I only had Harbinger #10. I couldn't find Harbinger #8-#9, and I couldn't afford Harbinger #1-#7.

 

Valiant got bigger anyway... despite many "want-to-read-but-can't-afford-or-find" books for thousands of Valiant fans back-in-the-day.

Pre-internet... so finding out what a book contained required some printed review a month later (at least)... or a friend with more money.

 

Valiant has kept every single book in print (in trades, hardcovers) since the relaunch.

There isn't a book that Valiant printed that you can't find because they're all "gone".

In three years since the relaunch, apart from some rare variants, they haven't seen any market activity.

Does the fact that every book is easily accessible have something to do with that?

It certainly did for Valiant back-in-the-day... there wouldn't have been clamoring if there were plenty.

 

So, Valiant appears to be trying out an "exclusive story"... to have a story that isn't readily available all the time the way every other book has been.

 

They either keep doing the same things expecting different results, or they mix it up a bit.

[rjrjr]

In Transformers defense, their fan base is dedicated, and they have 2 ongoing books with good writers, a current crossover with a 3rd ongoing just starting called Combiner Wars (speaks for itself if you know Transformers) and the More than Meets the Eye title is still the best written comic I have read to date. Says something when not only do you have to re=read the book a few times, but there is so much dialogue that it takes an hour to read and it all works for an adult outlook on an old favorite. And why I started reading Rai again, because it was re-imaged for an adult that read Rai as a teenager, like me. New Concepts like reimaged BSG on tv.

 

I think Valiant will have more staying power now this go around.

 

Right --- I'm not saying Transformers aren't good comics. I'm saying that holding Valiant to some expectation of print runs where 7,000 is too low is not fair when Transformers has billions in box office and three decades of toys and isn't averaging 11,000.

Is Valiant failing for not having 11,000, or are they succeeding beyond expectations for having 70% of the print run of a major property like Transformers?

(Or... are they both failing?)

 

Transformers is not a comic book property and non-comic book properties always had a stigma in the comic market. Even with as wildly successful as Star Wars has been this year, there are people that will argue Star Wars #1 (1977) is not a comic book key. Go over to the Bronze Age forums and read this for yourself. Valiant only publishes comic book properties. That should give them the leg up IMHO.

 

But, that is not to say one is doing better than the other. I guess it really depends on how much they cost to produce and what the profit is for the company. If any of them are operating in the red, then they are failing. If they are operating in the black, depending on how much profit, success.

 

I do have to ask though, why the constant need to compare Valiant to other companies and properties? Does knocking another property make the Valiant comics more desirable? That is the tact that losing companies use, constantly mentioning how much better they are than their competitor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advertising.)

[valiantman]

In Transformers defense, their fan base is dedicated, and they have 2 ongoing books with good writers, a current crossover with a 3rd ongoing just starting called Combiner Wars (speaks for itself if you know Transformers) and the More than Meets the Eye title is still the best written comic I have read to date. Says something when not only do you have to re=read the book a few times, but there is so much dialogue that it takes an hour to read and it all works for an adult outlook on an old favorite. And why I started reading Rai again, because it was re-imaged for an adult that read Rai as a teenager, like me. New Concepts like reimaged BSG on tv.

 

I think Valiant will have more staying power now this go around.

 

Right --- I'm not saying Transformers aren't good comics. I'm saying that holding Valiant to some expectation of print runs where 7,000 is too low is not fair when Transformers has billions in box office and three decades of toys and isn't averaging 11,000.

Is Valiant failing for not having 11,000, or are they succeeding beyond expectations for having 70% of the print run of a major property like Transformers?

(Or... are they both failing?)

 

Transformers is not a comic book property and non-comic book properties always had a stigma in the comic market. Even with as wildly successful as Star Wars has been this year, there are people that will argue Star Wars #1 (1977) is not a comic book key. Go over to the Bronze Age forums and read this for yourself. Valiant only publishes comic book properties. That should give them the leg up IMHO.

 

But, that is not to say one is doing better than the other. I guess it really depends on how much they cost to produce and what the profit is for the company. If any of them are operating in the red, then they are failing. If they are operating in the black, depending on how much profit, success.

 

I do have to ask though, why the constant need to compare Valiant to other companies and properties? Does knocking another property make the Valiant comics more desirable? That is the tact that losing companies use, constantly mentioning how much better they are than their competitor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advertising.)

Pepsi Challenge. They had 45% of the market and still compared themselves to Coke.

 

From your own link:"FTC stated that comparative advertising could benefit consumers and encourages comparative advertising, provided that the comparisons are “clearly identified, truthful, and non-deceptive”."

 

Is anything about giving the print run numbers for Valiant's competitors deceptive?

 

My goal is to say that Valiant's print run ISN'T failing because that would mean all the competitors are failing, too... and even worse.

 

Am I being "clearly identified, truthful, and non-deceptive"? Yes.

[rjrjr]

What about the actual stories? Does anyone talk about those? Rarely. But publish a hard to find variant and that will generate a multi-page discussion on a forum.

 

I give kudos to Marvel, DC, and Image for this. At least people talk about the actual stories, not just the variants they are pumping out. But then there is a reason they are the top publishers and everyone else are wanna bes.

Every single book is discussed on the ValiantFans.com board. The reason you don't see people talking about Valiant all over other sites is that fans find each other at a specific website.

 

Every single book is discussed on multiple podcasts by Valiant fans.

 

When it comes to Valiant, right now people are either "Valiant 4 Life" or "don't read it".

There aren't many people who dabble.

 

Marvel and DC are ketchup and mustard. Valiant is sriracha.

 

Okay. I use to visit ValiantFans.com regularly. Cool site. (Your site if I'm not mistaken.)

 

Sorry, didn't mean to be so negative here. I hope Valiant does find its footing and the fans are satisfied. I don't think making an entire mini-series an incentive is the correct direction. They already alienated potential fans with all the incentive variants they pumped out.

It's definitely worth debating whether Valiant's incentive-only storyline is a good move... but it's not like fans won't know what happens in the books. The internet puts full reviews online same day... not to mention illegal images. Legally, and for free, the text-based discussion about the book will put the information out there whether you own the book or not. Does anyone need help figuring out what happens in Batman #40... even if they don't own a copy?

 

When Valiant first got popular, there weren't enough to go around, so pretty much every early book was an "exclusive" that alienated potential fans. I wanted to read Harbinger #1-#9, but I only had Harbinger #10. I couldn't find Harbinger #8-#9, and I couldn't afford Harbinger #1-#7.

 

Valiant got bigger anyway... despite many "want-to-read-but-can't-afford-or-find" books for thousands of Valiant fans back-in-the-day.

Pre-internet... so finding out what a book contained required some printed review a month later (at least)... or a friend with more money.

 

Valiant has kept every single book in print (in trades, hardcovers) since the relaunch.

There isn't a book that Valiant printed that you can't find because they're all "gone".

In three years since the relaunch, apart from some rare variants, they haven't seen any market activity.

Does the fact that every book is easily accessible have something to do with that?

It certainly did for Valiant back-in-the-day... there wouldn't have been clamoring if there were plenty.

 

So, Valiant appears to be trying out an "exclusive story"... to have a story that isn't readily available all the time the way every other book has been.

 

They either keep doing the same things expecting different results, or they mix it up a bit.

 

Fair enough. But they didn't try the one thing I heard many people mention early on when I was reading their titles - stop producing the variants. Now it feels like they are doubling down on the strategy that alienated those potential fans.

 

It might succeed. I'm doubtful. If you make a book impossible for me to find, I'm not going to jump over hoops to go find it. Especially if it is a property I'm already not inclined to pick up in the first place. Who exactly are they trying to reach with this? Speculators? Readers?

 

I guess we'll find out in a few short months.

[valiantman]

Fair enough. But they didn't try the one thing I heard many people mention early on when I was reading their titles - stop producing the variants.

Death-defying Dr. Mirage has no variants for #2-#5. It was the lowest monthly seller.

http://valiantdatabase.com/books/drmirage

It's an awesome story that many people would enjoy if they read it.

 

[rjrjr]

Fair enough. But they didn't try the one thing I heard many people mention early on when I was reading their titles - stop producing the variants.

Death-defying Dr. Mirage has no variants for #2-#5. It was the lowest monthly seller.

http://valiantdatabase.com/books/drmirage

It's an awesome story that many people would enjoy if they read it.

 

Issue #1 sold just over 7,000 copies. That issue did have several variants (4 or 5 I believe.) There was no way #2 - 5 were going to sell better than issue #1. Do you feel that was an attempt by Valiant to see if no variants would work? Or was it an attempt by them to save money by not hiring more cover artists for a losing proposition?

[rjrjr]

In Transformers defense, their fan base is dedicated, and they have 2 ongoing books with good writers, a current crossover with a 3rd ongoing just starting called Combiner Wars (speaks for itself if you know Transformers) and the More than Meets the Eye title is still the best written comic I have read to date. Says something when not only do you have to re=read the book a few times, but there is so much dialogue that it takes an hour to read and it all works for an adult outlook on an old favorite. And why I started reading Rai again, because it was re-imaged for an adult that read Rai as a teenager, like me. New Concepts like reimaged BSG on tv.

 

I think Valiant will have more staying power now this go around.

 

Right --- I'm not saying Transformers aren't good comics. I'm saying that holding Valiant to some expectation of print runs where 7,000 is too low is not fair when Transformers has billions in box office and three decades of toys and isn't averaging 11,000.

Is Valiant failing for not having 11,000, or are they succeeding beyond expectations for having 70% of the print run of a major property like Transformers?

(Or... are they both failing?)

 

Transformers is not a comic book property and non-comic book properties always had a stigma in the comic market. Even with as wildly successful as Star Wars has been this year, there are people that will argue Star Wars #1 (1977) is not a comic book key. Go over to the Bronze Age forums and read this for yourself. Valiant only publishes comic book properties. That should give them the leg up IMHO.

 

But, that is not to say one is doing better than the other. I guess it really depends on how much they cost to produce and what the profit is for the company. If any of them are operating in the red, then they are failing. If they are operating in the black, depending on how much profit, success.

 

I do have to ask though, why the constant need to compare Valiant to other companies and properties? Does knocking another property make the Valiant comics more desirable? That is the tact that losing companies use, constantly mentioning how much better they are than their competitor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advertising.)

Pepsi Challenge. They had 45% of the market and still compared themselves to Coke.

 

From your own link:"FTC stated that comparative advertising could benefit consumers and encourages comparative advertising, provided that the comparisons are “clearly identified, truthful, and non-deceptive”."

 

Is anything about giving the print run numbers for Valiant's competitors deceptive?

 

My goal is to say that Valiant's print run ISN'T failing because that would mean all the competitors are failing, too... and even worse.

 

Am I being "clearly identified, truthful, and non-deceptive"? Yes.

 

I didn't mean to imply you are being untruthful. I just noticed a pattern where you are constantly comparing Valiant to competitors to try and explain how good the comics are. I would think rising sales numbers would be an indication of how good the comics are. Granted, good comics do get overlooked all the time. But an entire line of comic books? I guess it is possible...

 

One thing I will say, you are a good advocate for Valiant. Clearly you are passionate about the brand and I have always admired how you can spin negatives into positives.

[valiantman]

Fair enough. But they didn't try the one thing I heard many people mention early on when I was reading their titles - stop producing the variants.

Death-defying Dr. Mirage has no variants for #2-#5. It was the lowest monthly seller.

http://valiantdatabase.com/books/drmirage

It's an awesome story that many people would enjoy if they read it.

 

Issue #1 sold just over 7,000 copies. That issue did have several variants (4 or 5 I believe.) There was no way #2 - 5 were going to sell better than issue #1. Do you feel that was an attempt by Valiant to see if no variants would work? Or was it an attempt by them to save money by not hiring more cover artists for a losing proposition?

I have no doubt they're looking backward at what worked and didn't work for Valiant/Acclaim.

If I had to guess, they may have tried the Armorines Volume 2 strategy on Dr. Mirage.

Armorines Vol 2 is very low print... and it does have value in the market... particularly #4.

If the print run was going to be low anyway, then eliminating variants makes the possibility of a "sought-after regular issue" more plausible.

 

So far it hasn't worked... but Dr. Mirage was a mini-series. When she returns, the first series might be a hotter commodity.

 

Other random books have no variants. I believe they were checking to see what the "variant bump" is... how many more orders they get with variants. X-O Manowar #7 only has one edition.

[UltraMaximus]

Transformers is considered a hit by Hasbo, and averages around the 10K print but that is 2 books a month, and now a 3rd. Valiant has more titles, and both have a lot of fans do digital. Transformers IS a comic property, it started as a comic back in the 80's LONG before the cartoon. People sometimes forget that.....a comic to help sell toys, that became a cartoon to help sell comics and toys, to a movie to help sell a cartoon that helps sell comics and toys.

 

While a toy maker owns the IP, it was Valiant's own Jim Shooter who made the story of Transformers what it has been based off ever since.

 

Guess that is why I like both so much.

 

Rai VEI, again, is like watching BSG reimaged, and old Rai is like the 79 version, both cool in their own right for the day they were produced.

 

 

[rjrjr]

Fair enough. But they didn't try the one thing I heard many people mention early on when I was reading their titles - stop producing the variants.

Death-defying Dr. Mirage has no variants for #2-#5. It was the lowest monthly seller.

http://valiantdatabase.com/books/drmirage

It's an awesome story that many people would enjoy if they read it.

 

Issue #1 sold just over 7,000 copies. That issue did have several variants (4 or 5 I believe.) There was no way #2 - 5 were going to sell better than issue #1. Do you feel that was an attempt by Valiant to see if no variants would work? Or was it an attempt by them to save money by not hiring more cover artists for a losing proposition?

I have no doubt they're looking backward at what worked and didn't work for Valiant/Acclaim.

If I had to guess, they may have tried the Armorines Volume 2 strategy on Dr. Mirage.

Armorines Vol 2 is very low print... and it does have value in the market... particularly #4.

If the print run was going to be low anyway, then eliminating variants makes the possibility of a "sought-after regular issue" more plausible.

 

So far it hasn't worked... but Dr. Mirage was a mini-series. When she returns, the first series might be a hotter commodity.

 

Other random books have no variants. I believe they were checking to see what the "variant bump" is... how many more orders they get with variants. X-O Manowar #7 only has one edition.

 

This is interesting. Is there a clear variant bump for Valiant? Unfortunately for them, once you lose a reader, it is very unlikely they will come back. I'm out for good because I like have a complete collection and it drove me crazy knowing that was never going to happen with their line. I am positive I wasn't the only one. But, I did stick with them much longer (1.5 years) than I have for titles from Dynamite Entertainment, IDW, etc. because I was such a loyal reader in the 90s. I believe you were the one who suggested I stick with it for a while and I did but found myself buying out of habit, not because I was enjoying the stories.

[rjrjr]

Transformers is considered a hit by Hasbo, and averages around the 10K print but that is 2 books a month, and now a 3rd. Valiant has more titles, and both have a lot of fans do digital. Transformers IS a comic property, it started as a comic back in the 80's LONG before the cartoon. People sometimes forget that.....a comic to help sell toys, that became a cartoon to help sell comics and toys, to a movie to help sell a cartoon that helps sell comics and toys.

 

While a toy maker owns the IP, it was Valiant's own Jim Shooter who made the story of Transformers what it has been based off ever since.

 

Guess that is why I like both so much.

 

Rai VEI, again, is like watching BSG reimaged, and old Rai is like the 79 version, both cool in their own right for the day they were produced.

 

 

Interesting about Transformers being a comic property. I think if you asked most people, they would say it was a toy property. After all, Hasbro owns the property and Hasbro is a toy maker.

 

Might make an interesting poll:

 

 

[valiantman]

I'm out for good because I like have a complete collection and it drove me crazy knowing that was never going to happen with their line. I am positive I wasn't the only one. But, I did stick with them much longer (1.5 years) than I have for titles from Dynamite Entertainment, IDW, etc. because I was such a loyal reader in the 90s. I believe you were the one who suggested I stick with it for a while and I did but found myself buying out of habit, not because I was enjoying the stories.

 

Variants are everywhere now... every publisher... even Walking Dead #100 is tough to "complete" as a "collection" for that single issue.

What do you buy when you won't buy publishers who do too many variants?

 

Obviously, back issues are available... there's no variant for most key issues from the past 80 years, but those aren't new stories. New-to-you or new-to-me, but not new.

Do you read/collect anything new?

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

Transformers is considered a hit by Hasbo, and averages around the 10K print but that is 2 books a month, and now a 3rd. Valiant has more titles, and both have a lot of fans do digital. Transformers IS a comic property, it started as a comic back in the 80's LONG before the cartoon. People sometimes forget that.....a comic to help sell toys, that became a cartoon to help sell comics and toys, to a movie to help sell a cartoon that helps sell comics and toys.

 

While a toy maker owns the IP, it was Valiant's own Jim Shooter who made the story of Transformers what it has been based off ever since.

 

Guess that is why I like both so much.

 

Rai VEI, again, is like watching BSG reimaged, and old Rai is like the 79 version, both cool in their own right for the day they were produced.

 

 

Interesting about Transformers being a comic property. I think if you asked most people, they would say it was a toy property. After all, Hasbro owns the property and Hasbro is a toy maker.

 

Might make an interesting poll:

 

If you're interested:

 

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/10/12/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-72/

[valiantman]

Transformers is considered a hit by Hasbo, and averages around the 10K print but that is 2 books a month, and now a 3rd. Valiant has more titles, and both have a lot of fans do digital. Transformers IS a comic property, it started as a comic back in the 80's LONG before the cartoon. People sometimes forget that.....a comic to help sell toys, that became a cartoon to help sell comics and toys, to a movie to help sell a cartoon that helps sell comics and toys.

 

While a toy maker owns the IP, it was Valiant's own Jim Shooter who made the story of Transformers what it has been based off ever since.

 

Guess that is why I like both so much.

 

Rai VEI, again, is like watching BSG reimaged, and old Rai is like the 79 version, both cool in their own right for the day they were produced.

 

 

Interesting about Transformers being a comic property. I think if you asked most people, they would say it was a toy property. After all, Hasbro owns the property and Hasbro is a toy maker.

 

Might make an interesting poll:

 

 

Transformers as a brand name started as a comic book. The comics exist because there were toys from Japan called "Mysterions" being brought to the U.S.

http://www.jimshooter.com/2011/06/secret-origin-of-transformers-part-1.html

 

So, it's true that Transformers were comics first, but transforming toys from vehicles to robots were earlier.

[rjrjr]

I'm out for good because I like have a complete collection and it drove me crazy knowing that was never going to happen with their line. I am positive I wasn't the only one. But, I did stick with them much longer (1.5 years) than I have for titles from Dynamite Entertainment, IDW, etc. because I was such a loyal reader in the 90s. I believe you were the one who suggested I stick with it for a while and I did but found myself buying out of habit, not because I was enjoying the stories.

 

Variants are everywhere now... every publisher... even Walking Dead #100 is tough to "complete" as a "collection" for that single issue.

What do you buy when you won't buy publishers who do too many variants?

 

Obviously, back issues are available... there's no variant for most key issues from the past 80 years, but those aren't new stories. New-to-you or new-to-me, but not new.

Do you read/collect anything new?

 

The only titles I collect anymore are the Star Wars titles. Honestly, I don't think I could afford to collect anything else these days. And I was on the fence for months on whether or not I was going to even attempt to collect the new Marvel Star Wars titles especially after all the variants published for issue #1. And if you know anything about me, you'll know I'm a huge Star Wars comic collector.

 

Hypocritical? Absolutely. My worst nightmare was realized when it became apparently just how many variants for Star Wars #1 were being rolled out. Every announcement was like a gut punch. I stopped all other titles I was following (mostly Image titles) just to have a chance to afford the onslaught we got in January. The last few months has made that palatable because the number of variants has dropped significantly and several issues don't even have variants now. I'm planning on just collecting the Star Wars titles from here on out and am divesting myself of many comics in my 15,000+ book collection. I figured if I just keep the Star Wars books, 3/4 of the collection will be gone.

 

Not having so many comics to read has made it easier for me to post on my blog.

[UltraMaximus]

Ok, but we aren't talking about a title that has the backing of both Marvel and it's parent corp Disney, and the fact that it is a Movie property. We are talking about Valiant here. Everyone knows star wars, and can name the characters easily. Can you name the Harbinger Renegade Kids names? Maybe not. Post Harbinger movie..... I bet you will have no problem.

 

While Valiant in the 90s started off with low print runs (for the day) they soon were punching like a heavyweight once word of their different approach to writing got around. It is happening again for VEI, but this time it is a slow burn, that should eventually turn into a SUN and be nuclear and self sustaining just like the Star Wars brand is today. Will print runs get as big as Star Wars #1 2015 big? Maybe not, but the quality is there.

 

 

[Gatsby77]

Maybe...if the line can survive the 3 years until the movies begin to hit.

 

I once worked for a private equity fund. 3-5 years is the typical exit. More than that -- the financials have to look really good...

[FormerReader]

Maybe...if the line can survive the 3 years until the movies begin to hit.

 

I once worked for a private equity fund. 3-5 years is the typical exit. More than that -- the financials have to look really good...

 

 

Well, they've made it three years already and that was prior to this cash infusion so I think it is a safe bet they will be here in three more years.