If the crash comes...

[natevegas]

So what happened to the jerk store?

 

They ran out of you.

 

 

 

 

-slym ( )

I play the Moops card.

[slym2none]

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

[N/A]

this thread should be moved to General...too much GA/SA talk going on.

 

 

 

 

[Aweandlorder]

 

What did Marvel and DC have in 1983-1988?

Dark Knight was a $30-40 book, and Marvel had the new universe

Indepent comics had:

TMNT 300.00 Albedo - 200.00 critters #1 40.00-50.00 usagi - 30-50.00 Realm 30.00 Fish Police 30.00 Samurai 30 elflord 30 quadrant 200+ Grendel 80 Mage 30 troll lords 30-40 adventurers #1 $30-50.. this is just from the top of my head, Ill show you prices of milehigh at the time and youll fall off your chair.. And.. THEY WERE SELLING FOR THOSE NUMBERS.. Its not like milehigh prices today where chuck will quote you a ridiculous price for a newsstand edition of team america. They were selling and people were 100% certain their getting the next TMNT/Cerebus etc...

Sounds familiar? (insert "the next WD" ebay listing here)

This led to color independent of course, Dark Horse then started with their Alien/Predator/terminator line, NOW comics jumped on that and licensed ghostbusters speedracer Terminator, it continued with short term but very much talked about trends, like Anne Rice' Vampire Lestat/Interview with the Vampire, and yes.. eventually Valiant.

When Valiant took over and the B&W/indie boom was dead in the water, I already learned my lesson and promised myself I will never again cheat on young independent comics elderly sisters Marvel & DC

 

[Gatsby77]

Yeah. The B+W boom wasn't just "confined to B+W" indies.

 

It was the bulk of the hot back issue market for a solid year & a half.

[JTLarsen]

One thing I think we routinely lose sight of is the emerging markets overseas. I know I've said this before, but I think Mile High's Chuck once said something like 20% of his comics are going out the door to countries overseas now. I suspect that figure will only increase as geek-friendly markets develop in India and Asia. And as disposable income grows over there...

[CBT]

OK, you win. I shouldn't have said that any books "always go up." My bad. But my point is that if you invest wisely in prime Golden, Pre-Code Horror, and Silver Age books that you will have a better chance of making money over the long haul

 

What if the time to invest wisely in most of what you mention has already passed by several years?

 

What if now everybody is doing the same thing and thinking that "they always go up", while tripling or quadrupling the books value in less than 5 years?

 

Just some things to consider. Owning the Blue Chips of a market may be safer in a standard decline, due to historical success and stability, but if the entire market is a bubble and everyone is making the same play..... the most expensive assets might not be the place to be.

 

 

I'm not saying Moderns are better, just saying, paying $2K for Walking Dead #1, is easier to swallow on a broad decline, than $50K for a AF15 or IH1. If you are buying 5-figure plus books, it better be without debt, and without the need to liquidate. You only lose money in a falling market if you are forced into selling. The people that do the best, are the ones able to be buying when everybody else is selling

[RockMyAmadeus]

Yeah. The B+W boom wasn't just "confined to B+W" indies.

 

It was the bulk of the hot back issue market for a solid year & a half.

 

Your second sentence doesn't prove your first.

 

That it was the bulk of the hot back issue market (which is mostly true) doesn't mean it wasn't confined to B&W independents.

 

The B&W "explosion" (as it was called at the time) was for....drum roll, please...B&W comics.

 

It didn't translate into higher/more sales or more demand for SA Marvels, or GA DCs, or Bronze Charltons, or new Marvels/DCs, or anything besides....B&W comics.

 

 

[N/A]

No drum roll for you!

[Lazyboy]

 

What did Marvel and DC have in 1983-1988?

Dark Knight was a $30-40 book, and Marvel had the new universe

Indepent comics had:

TMNT 300.00 Albedo - 200.00 critters #1 40.00-50.00 usagi - 30-50.00 Realm 30.00 Fish Police 30.00 Samurai 30 elflord 30 quadrant 200+ Grendel 80 Mage 30 troll lords 30-40 adventurers #1 $30-50..

Um... Exactly? The frenzy was limited to the B&W independents. It didn't effect the rest of the market.

 

This led to color independent of course

 

 

Independents flourished because of the rise of the Direct Market and certainly started before and continued after the B&W boom and bust.

[Prince Namor]

My main focus of collecting is silver & bronze age keys, and GA pre-code horror. I think I'm crash proof

 

 

The only people who need to worry about a crash or a bubble are the speculators putting their money into modern books, which will always be volatile because, in most cases, there are more than enough high-grade copies to go around once the speculators let go of their copies. And, yes, that includes those supposedly "rare" variant editions.

 

Buy Golden Age, Pre-Code Horror, and prime Silver Age books and you don't really need to worry. Those books will always go up and, at the worst, hold their value.

 

They always go up!

 

 

Over the long haul, yes. Those books consistently go up in value or, at the least, hold their value. You don't see prices plunging for Golden Age, PCH, or prime Silver Age books. Not saying you can't get good deals here and there, but they are not nearly as volatile as speculator-driven modern books. Are you disputing this?

 

In real money terms they do not always go up. How are GA westerns doing?

 

Golden Age westerns have never been "hot" as far as I know. There are genres of Golden Age books that you can get for cheap and may have trouble selling for what you paid. That is why I said "prime" Golden Age. You know, the popular stuff that most collectors actually want?

 

'Most' collectors want?

Is that how you define hot?

What about a book you put on eBay that sells within 15 minutes?

I did that with a Rawhide Kid #8 the other day.

Is that a book 'most' collectors want?

Is that hot or not?

 

Put a Kid Colt #3 (1948) in vfnm on eBay at a FM price and it'll sell in heartbeat.

Is that a book 'most' collectors want?

Is that hot or not?

 

Aren't those Westerns?

 

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

 

What did Marvel and DC have in 1983-1988?

Dark Knight was a $30-40 book, and Marvel had the new universe

 

Seriously? Marvel had plenty of books that were hot at the time.

 

Indepent comics had:

TMNT 300.00

 

Not in the early 80's it wasn't.

 

Albedo - 200.00

 

Nowhere near that at the time. This book was nothing until a couple of years ago.

 

critters #1 40.00-50.00

usagi - 30-50.00 Realm 30.00 Fish Police 30.00 Samurai 30 elflord 30 quadrant 200+ Grendel 80 Mage 30 troll lords 30-40 adventurers #1 $30-50.. this is just from the top of my head, Ill show you prices of milehigh at the time and youll fall off your chair..

 

Yes, please show us this 1983 ad where Chuck was asking $200 for albedo #2

 

And.. THEY WERE SELLING FOR THOSE NUMBERS.. Its not like milehigh prices today where chuck will quote you a ridiculous price for a newsstand edition of team america. They were selling and people were 100% certain their getting the next TMNT/Cerebus etc...

 

What I remember is me and my friends collecting certain books because we LIKED them and wanted to READ them. It wasn't the same as now.

You could buy an Amazing Fantasy #15 for $300 in 1988, so some of these numbers you're quoting are way off.

 

Sounds familiar? (insert "the next WD" ebay listing here)

This led to color independent of course, Dark Horse then started with their Alien/Predator/terminator line, NOW comics jumped on that and licensed ghostbusters speedracer Terminator, it continued with short term but very much talked about trends, like Anne Rice' Vampire Lestat/Interview with the Vampire, and yes.. eventually Valiant.

When Valiant took over and the B&W/indie boom was dead in the water, I already learned my lesson and promised myself I will never again cheat on young independent comics elderly sisters Marvel & DC

 

Your version of history is inconsistent with what actually happened.

[Lazyboy]

My main focus of collecting is silver & bronze age keys, and GA pre-code horror. I think I'm crash proof

 

 

The only people who need to worry about a crash or a bubble are the speculators putting their money into modern books, which will always be volatile because, in most cases, there are more than enough high-grade copies to go around once the speculators let go of their copies. And, yes, that includes those supposedly "rare" variant editions.

 

Buy Golden Age, Pre-Code Horror, and prime Silver Age books and you don't really need to worry. Those books will always go up and, at the worst, hold their value.

 

They always go up!

 

 

Over the long haul, yes. Those books consistently go up in value or, at the least, hold their value. You don't see prices plunging for Golden Age, PCH, or prime Silver Age books. Not saying you can't get good deals here and there, but they are not nearly as volatile as speculator-driven modern books. Are you disputing this?

 

In real money terms they do not always go up. How are GA westerns doing?

 

Golden Age westerns have never been "hot" as far as I know. There are genres of Golden Age books that you can get for cheap and may have trouble selling for what you paid. That is why I said "prime" Golden Age. You know, the popular stuff that most collectors actually want?

 

'Most' collectors want?

Is that how you define hot?

What about a book you put on eBay that sells within 15 minutes?

I did that with a Rawhide Kid #8 the other day.

Is that a book 'most' collectors want?

Is that hot or not?

 

Put a Kid Colt #3 (1948) in vfnm on eBay at a FM price and it'll sell in heartbeat.

Is that a book 'most' collectors want?

Is that hot or not?

 

Aren't those Westerns?

 

 

 

I believe that's called technology. You can set up eBay to get e-mails when something you want is listed, right?

[Prince Namor]

My main focus of collecting is silver & bronze age keys, and GA pre-code horror. I think I'm crash proof

 

 

The only people who need to worry about a crash or a bubble are the speculators putting their money into modern books, which will always be volatile because, in most cases, there are more than enough high-grade copies to go around once the speculators let go of their copies. And, yes, that includes those supposedly "rare" variant editions.

 

Buy Golden Age, Pre-Code Horror, and prime Silver Age books and you don't really need to worry. Those books will always go up and, at the worst, hold their value.

 

They always go up!

 

 

Over the long haul, yes. Those books consistently go up in value or, at the least, hold their value. You don't see prices plunging for Golden Age, PCH, or prime Silver Age books. Not saying you can't get good deals here and there, but they are not nearly as volatile as speculator-driven modern books. Are you disputing this?

 

In real money terms they do not always go up. How are GA westerns doing?

 

Golden Age westerns have never been "hot" as far as I know. There are genres of Golden Age books that you can get for cheap and may have trouble selling for what you paid. That is why I said "prime" Golden Age. You know, the popular stuff that most collectors actually want?

 

'Most' collectors want?

Is that how you define hot?

What about a book you put on eBay that sells within 15 minutes?

I did that with a Rawhide Kid #8 the other day.

Is that a book 'most' collectors want?

Is that hot or not?

 

Put a Kid Colt #3 (1948) in vfnm on eBay at a FM price and it'll sell in heartbeat.

Is that a book 'most' collectors want?

Is that hot or not?

 

Aren't those Westerns?

 

 

 

I believe that's called technology. You can set up eBay to get e-mails when something you want is listed, right?

 

Yes, but it doesn't always mean someone will buy it.

Those books WILL sell.

Are they 'hot'?

Are they what 'most' collectors want?

[Aweandlorder]

TMNT 300.00

Not in the early 80's it wasn't.

Albedo - 200.00

Nowhere near that at the time. This book was nothing until a couple of years ago.

Yes, please show us this 1983 ad where Chuck was asking $200 for albedo #2

You could buy an Amazing Fantasy #15 for $300 in 1988, so some of these numbers you're quoting are way off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aweandlorder]

Your version of history is inconsistent with what actually happened.

 

I suggest you do your research before contradicting the facts, since clearly you werent around when this happened.

This is not the first time I spent ample time contradicting your points of view on fictional matters which you carry with a very condescending tone. And yes, its true, Im typing this at 3:00 am. Which technically means that as of right now, im putting you on ignore.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Your version of history is inconsistent with what actually happened.

 

I suggest you do your research before contradicting the facts, since clearly you werent around when this happened.

This is not the first time I spent ample time contradicting your points of view on fictional matters...

 

The last conversation we debated was when you tried to claim Superman might be a bigger merchandising cash cow than Spider-man and when I showed you proof of Spider-man's dominance of the market (crushing even Batman and the Avengers - Supes was #4, sorry), you left the conversation.

 

which you carry with a very condescending tone.

 

Whenever someone disagrees with someone on this board, it's always believed to be with a condescending tone. I'm not trying to be condescending, I just think when someone makes a public declaration of 'statements', they should be able to back it up with actual facts if asked. I asked.

 

And yes, its true, Im typing this at 3:00 am. Which technically means that as of right now, im putting you on ignore.

 

That's fine. I can still read what you wrote.

 

Indepent comics had:

TMNT 300.00

 

Not in the early 80's it wasn't.

 

The price guide you showed was from 1990. That didn't contradict my statement.

 

Albedo - 200.00

 

Nowhere near that at the time. This book was nothing until a couple of years ago.

 

See, now you showed me proof of this in a guide. If someone was actually paying that at the time, I don't know, but....

 

critters #1 40.00-50.00

usagi - 30-50.00 Realm 30.00 Fish Police 30.00 Samurai 30 elflord 30 quadrant 200+ Grendel 80 Mage 30 troll lords 30-40 adventurers #1 $30-50.. this is just from the top of my head, Ill show you prices of milehigh at the time and youll fall off your chair..

 

Yes, please show us this 1983 ad where Chuck was asking $200 for albedo #2

 

All I asked for was Albedo. Those other prices are piddly, but still high I THINK.

 

And.. THEY WERE SELLING FOR THOSE NUMBERS.. Its not like milehigh prices today where chuck will quote you a ridiculous price for a newsstand edition of team america. They were selling and people were 100% certain their getting the next TMNT/Cerebus etc...

 

What I remember is me and my friends collecting certain books because we LIKED them and wanted to READ them. It wasn't the same as now.

You could buy an Amazing Fantasy #15 for $300 in 1988, so some of these numbers you're quoting are way off.

 

Well..you're claiming people were paying those prices for some of these books. Showing them in guide doesn't mean they were. I can show you prices on eBay for things right now - doesn't mean people are going to buy them for that. I can show you things on Chuck's website, doesn't mean he'll get that price.

 

Prices were increased on some of those items - they were sought after - and people were paying for them.... WHAT they were paying for them is simply memory for me. A guide, to me, doesn't prove actual sales. And I'm curious to know what actual sales were.

 

And....

 

What did Marvel and DC have in 1983-1988?

Dark Knight was a $30-40 book, and Marvel had the new universe

 

Seriously? Marvel had plenty of books that were hot at the time.

 

...they did.

 

[Prince Namor]

This is why I find it so important to understand and verify factual information about the history of comics.

The idea that someone would believe something in a Chuck Rozanski price guide was a legitimate price... or even that his NM price was the going rate for that comic....Chucky Poo was very aware of how Overstreet did business: Use your guide to mark up books that you had a lot of, or that you had invested in yourself cheaply and now wanted to sell... Wizard would follow shortly thereafter.

 

These people are not the historians of our hobby. They are the opportunists.

 

 

[500Club]

A point of trivia: Chuck was one of the driving forces behind Conan 3 being labelled as 'scarce' in Overstreet, in the years before historians determined it was actually an issue of uneven distribution.

[revivedrevival]

So few have answered the question of this thread: "if the crash comes" (not when).

That said, it's up to little argument; most of us would snipe the books we love most.

 

I didn't start collecting until ~5 years ago. I did not experience the last crash.

For super hero stories, I can understand why some might believe a crash is imminent. Pop culture is on the verge of being saturated with super hero stories and we can't expect the likes of Iron Fist, Agent Carter, Big Hero 6, etc to obtain & maintain popularity.

 

But, has anyone seen this many comic book stories in production for other forms of media (TV, film)? There are so many. Sure, not all will keep its momentum, but has the number of comic book works in pre-production ever been that long?

 

In other words, between great works like Mind MGMT, Scalped & many others, I expect a greater number of comic book stories to become successful ala TMNT than in the past.

 

Now, I'll sit here and wait to be flamed. =)