POLL: TOP CLASSIC COVERS OF THE BRONZE AGE?

[ComicBookGuy]

Yes, I should have double-checked the dates on those Surfers. I think entering those 72 fields numbed my brain.

 

As for some comics that should be added, I think House of Mystery 236 and Conan Annual 1 should be added. The JLA 138 is a killer book too. And what about that Tomahawk 116 on the Adams thread? Is that silver or bronze?

 

I was thinking to get some more issues, maybe ten more, that may have been left out and put them up against the top ten from this poll after it's been up a while. Other issues that should be here and aren't???

 

Thanks for the ideas, everyone -- and the votes and pics! This process will take a while, but maybe by summer, after a lot more people have voted and we can have a final showdown, we will know what the truly greatest bronze covers are!

 

Joe

[EC Star&Bar]

Tomahawk #116 is a Silver Age issue, dated May-June 1968. The Bronze era for the title began with #126 (1-2/70).

 

Another cover I've admired for many years is Superman Family #182 (3-4/77) by Curt Swan & Neal Adams, the first "Dollar Comic" issue. I don't know that it deserves classic status, but I just thought I would mention it.

[ComicBookGuy]

Kona, thanks for the information and the new suggestion! You saved me digging out my Tomahawks. And, if no one has said this already...

Welcome to the boards!

Joe

[drbanner]

Tomahawk #116 is a Silver Age issue, dated May-June 1968. The Bronze era for the title began with #126 (1-2/70).

 

Another cover I've admired for many years is Superman Family #182 (3-4/77) by Curt Swan & Neal Adams, the first "Dollar Comic" issue. I don't know that it deserves classic status, but I just thought I would mention it.

 

Why do you say the Bronze Age Issues start with 126, based on the date alone?

[EC Star&Bar]

Thanks for asking. Coincidentally, I've been thinking about the series' changes, so this is a good opportunity to revise my statement.

 

I fell into my old habit of going with the end of 1969 for the final Silver Age issues. With this title, however, I think it would make sense to call #131 (11-12/70) the first Bronze Age issue, as the Son of Tomahawk series began and Kubert took over from Boltinoff as editor. (I'm pretty certain that Adams stopped providing covers as well, with his last one for the title appearing on #130.)

 

So perhaps you might say that based on date alone, issues 126-130 fall in between the SA and BA. I'm interested in other opinions. I'll add that most other DC titles didn't have a significant change when comparing their 1969 and very early 1970s issues.

[drbanner]

Yeah, I don't think there's an easy "cutoff" for SA/BA for most ongoing titles that span both eras, unless there's a significant change in the content/direction of the book. Taking Hulk for example ( ), certainly 181 is BA, as is 162 (1st Wendigo), 145 (25-cent Giant), but what about 141 (1st Doc Samson)? How about 122 (Classic Hulk vs. Thing cover)?

 

IMHO, there really is no answer to "When does the SA end?" for most of the mainstream, ongoing DC and Marvel titles...

[Zonker]

Kona said: I'll add that most other DC titles didn't have a significant change when comparing their 1969 and very early 1970s issues.

 

drbanner said:

IMHO, there really is no answer to "When does the SA end?" for most of the mainstream, ongoing DC and Marvel titles...

 

We've had fun with this one before.

 

Things did start to get Bronze-ish with Marvel/DC beginning around 1968 or so. But I still think you can detect a noticeable change in the ongoing titles beginning in 1970, and filtering through most of the titles over the next year or two. What I think this corresponds to is:

 

- DC losing market share after the Adam West Batman TV show boom & bust-- they try to leap-frog Marvel by going even more mature, more "relevant" under Carmine Infantino's tenure

 

- Marvel losing their previous tight focus after their expansion of 1968-- Stan Lee finally admits he can't write most everything himself, goes Hollywood instead, and turns over Spider-Man to Roy Thomas for the first time

 

Symptoms of the above include Kirby's defection to DC, the licensing of Conan, and "Young Turk" writers like Englehart, Gerber, Wein, Wolfman breaking in.

 

Here's a list I created a while ago, now rescued from one of our Bronze Age starting point threads (the case is weaker for Marvel than it is for DC):

 

What book started the Bronze Age in each title ? And here is the beginnings of a list:

 

Fantastic Four 103 October 1970--First non-Kirby issue

Amazing Spider Man 100 September 1971--First non Stan Lee issue

Detective 395 January 1970-- First O'Neil-Adams issue

Batman 219 February 1970-- First Adams art this title

GL/GA 76 April 1970-- First O'Neil-Adams, Green Arrow issue

Flash 195 March 1970-- First Gil Kane art this title

Superman 233 January 1971-- First Schwartz-edited issue. O'Neil/Swan/Anderson

Justice League 78 February 1970-- JLA leave earth; Black Canary joins

Superboy 184 December 1971--First Cockrum Legion

Action 419 December 1971-- First Schwartz-edited issue.

Jimmy Olsen 133 October 1970-- First Kirby issue

Teen Titans 25 Jan/Feb 1970-- "Titans Kill a Saint?" classic; 1st Lilith; Robin leaves.

Brave & Bold 98 Aug/Sep 1971-- first Jim Aparo art

Aquaman 50 Mar/Apr 1970-- Deadman by Adams begins crossover

 

 

[EC Star&Bar]

I should give some examples of DC titles that I think ushered in the Bronze Age for the company -- pre-1970.

 

The Unexpected and House of Mystery are titles whose horror issues of the very late 1960s may be regarded as Bronze Age. And House of Secrets had been discontinued for a couple of years until brought back in 1969 in a horror mode.

 

Strange Adventures went into its reprint mode in 1969; that could possibly be considered the beginning of its BA run, although the stories reprinted a solidly SA character -- Adam Strange.

 

Finally, Witching Hour, Phantom Stranger, and From Beyond the Unknown each had a few pre-1970 issues, though all are very much BA titles.

[Zonker]

Yeah, the Horror revival under Joe Orlando provides some good counter-examples, as do the Adams issues of Brave & Bold and the Deadman series itself.

 

But 1970 is my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

I see the late Silver Age of 1968-1969 including the early Neal Adams, Jim Steranko, Berni Wrightson work, the re-launch of the four-color horror mags, and the incorporation of the Charlton creative staff (Skeates, Aparo, Giordano, O'Neil) into DC.

 

IMHO, it's when the horror themes start routinely making their way into the DC super hero books that the Bronze Age really kicks in. (There have been several posts over the last week pointing out how many 'hero/horror' covers there are in 1970-72). "Secret of the Waiting Graves," the first O'Neil/Adams Batman story in 'Tec 395 is an out-and-out ghost story: none of this 'Was it a dream?' hedging of the bets.

 

And when the Marvel anti-heroes start showing up in the wake of Conan, well, away we go...

[drbanner]

Kona said: I'll add that most other DC titles didn't have a significant change when comparing their 1969 and very early 1970s issues.

 

drbanner said:

IMHO, there really is no answer to "When does the SA end?" for most of the mainstream, ongoing DC and Marvel titles...

 

We've had fun with this one before.

 

Things did start to get Bronze-ish with Marvel/DC beginning around 1968 or so. But I still think you can detect a noticeable change in the ongoing titles beginning in 1970, and filtering through most of the titles over the next year or two. What I think this corresponds to is:

 

- DC losing market share after the Adam West Batman TV show boom & bust-- they try to leap-frog Marvel by going even more mature, more "relevant" under Carmine Infantino's tenure

 

- Marvel losing their previous tight focus after their expansion of 1968-- Stan Lee finally admits he can't write most everything himself, goes Hollywood instead, and turns over Spider-Man to Roy Thomas for the first time

 

Symptoms of the above include Kirby's defection to DC, the licensing of Conan, and "Young Turk" writers like Englehart, Gerber, Wein, Wolfman breaking in.

 

Here's a list I created a while ago, now rescued from one of our Bronze Age starting point threads (the case is weaker for Marvel than it is for DC):

 

What book started the Bronze Age in each title ? And here is the beginnings of a list:

 

Fantastic Four 103 October 1970--First non-Kirby issue

Amazing Spider Man 100 September 1971--First non Stan Lee issue

Detective 395 January 1970-- First O'Neil-Adams issue

Batman 219 February 1970-- First Adams art this title

GL/GA 76 April 1970-- First O'Neil-Adams, Green Arrow issue

Flash 195 March 1970-- First Gil Kane art this title

Superman 233 January 1971-- First Schwartz-edited issue. O'Neil/Swan/Anderson

Justice League 78 February 1970-- JLA leave earth; Black Canary joins

Superboy 184 December 1971--First Cockrum Legion

Action 419 December 1971-- First Schwartz-edited issue.

Jimmy Olsen 133 October 1970-- First Kirby issue

Teen Titans 25 Jan/Feb 1970-- "Titans Kill a Saint?" classic; 1st Lilith; Robin leaves.

Brave & Bold 98 Aug/Sep 1971-- first Jim Aparo art

Aquaman 50 Mar/Apr 1970-- Deadman by Adams begins crossover

 

 

 

Yes, 'tis true this issue has been briefly discussed before!

 

I think if a date is needed, 1/70 would be the best choice, otherwise there really is no single book, date, or title that can be considered to be the single point at which the bronze age started.

 

You like Moe's SW Diner?

[EC Star&Bar]

Thanks for showing us your list and for your very good commentary. I was a little slow in putting up my last post, so I didn't see your remarks until afterward.

 

Certainly Green Lantern is an excellent example of a DC title making a big change between 1969 and '70.

 

I've sometimes considered the exit of Robin in 1969 as the beginning of the BA for Detective and Batman. But you're very convincing in mentioning the horror elements, and regardless, 'Tec 395 was a landmark issue. So I think we have pretty good agreement there.

 

I did want to mention, though, that big changes for Superman didn't come until after 1970; Action Comics and Superman were among the titles I had in mind when I stated that most very (very) early 1970s DCs weren't significantly different from the 1969 issues.

[awe4one]

How about 122 (Classic Hulk vs. Thing cover)?

 

Silver..the rest of your list is Bronze in my eyes...

 

Jim

[drbanner]

How about 122 (Classic Hulk vs. Thing cover)?

 

Silver..the rest of your list is Bronze in my eyes...

 

Jim

 

I would agree...which implies that somewhere between 123 and 140 there's a SA book followed directly by a BA book?

[Zonker]

 

You like Moe's SW Diner?

 

The place downtown? We went there once and shuttle-bused to a show at the BTI Center. We liked Moe's just fine, but our non-kid-friendly meals have been few & far between lately!

 

Or did you mean the Moe's Southwest Grill in Cameron Village? (used to be called something else for many years, part of a local chain whose name escapes me). Haven't been there since it's been Moe's.

 

I did notice whatever took the place of the Deli Box has now closed again...

 

 

(sorry everyone for the )

[ComicBookGuy]

Good discussion, guys!

I like this idea of January 1970 being the earliest a book can qualify here. Apart from "bronze" horror titles like HOM, HOS from DC and Chamber of Darkness and Tower of Shadows from Marvel, it seems that the bronze keys occur from 1970 on.

I once read a thread on here long ago where someone argued very articulately for Conan 1 beginning the bronze age. I agree with that for Marvel and with GLGA 76 for DC.

When we do a final round of this later in the spring, I will set more definite parameters and add more books to compete with the top contenders from this list. In the meantime, I'm enjoying watching the votes pile up.

Joe

[october]

I am also a big fan of the first 3 or 4 Weird Western covers and All Star Western 11 as well. Great stuff.

[ComicBookGuy]

Thanks for more suggestions, OF!

 

I was looking at the poll. At this point, we have the top three as...

1) Batman 227

2) Spidey 122

3) GLGA 76

 

People still seem to be voting. When no votes have occurred for a while, I will look at starting a new poll with the top 10 winners and all new suggestions. It would be good to have a scan of each cover on the new poll, so if we want to nominate something, we should see if we can find a scan somewhere for sometime in the near future.

 

On a personal level, I'm surprised at how well some covers are doing and at how poorly others are doing. A very interesting poll so far!

 

If you haven't voted, PLEASE VOTE! All lurkers, please register and join the fun!

 

Joe

[october]

Great poll! I am suprised (in a good way) that so many people like Bats 227. Proves that people on here have great taste. I will try and think of more covers as well....

[ComicBookGuy]

Great poll! I am suprised (in a good way) that so many people like Bats 227. Proves that people on here have great taste. I will try and think of more covers as well....

 

I am very surprised as well. It's always been a popular book and a toughie to find in high grade, but before this poll would anyone have ventured to say it was a contender for best cover of the bronze age? Sure the poll is still young and not nearly enough people have voted to make this definitive, but Batman 227 has been ahead since this thing started and has a comfortable lead.

 

Since we last posted, GLGA 76 is in danger of overtaking Spider-man 122 for second place.

[bronze johnny]

Hello Comic Guy,

 

Let's see if we can re-ignite this thread and try to get complete this interesting project.